[joanbertis]

So it is your opinion that the official history of our planet and all the events that have happend on earth are all accurately recorded?

There are are no hidden/occult/secret/alternative histories? Because it would take too many people to cover up anything that would be on a grand scale?

I'm not sure how many conspirators it would take to cover up the events you proposed. My guess is that it would not be thousands as you say.

How many conspirators do you think it took to create a fake religion called Christiany and keep it a relative secret for 2,000 years?

[Inettypofonee]

So it is your opinion that the official history of our planet and all the events that have happend on earth are all accurately recorded?

There are are no hidden/occult/secret/alternative histories? Because it would take too many people to cover up anything that would be on a grand scale?

I'm not sure how many conspirators it would take to cover up the events you proposed. My guess is that it would not be thousands as you say.

How many conspirators do you think it took to create a fake religion called Christiany and keep it a relative secret for 2,000 years?

Originally Posted by Conan21

The official history of our planet has nothing to do with 9/11. Focus on the subject and try not to go off on tangents.

I didn't propose a cover up at all. You did and yes it would be massive. The more you debate the subject the larger it will get.

I don't know anything about conspirators and Christianity and frankly I don't even care. Stay on topic.

[JeremyBalll]

"The tendency to occultism is a symptom of regression in consciousness", Adorno wrote in Minima Moralia. . "The veiled tendency of society towards disaster lulls its victims in a false revelation, with a hallucinated phenomenon. In vain they hope in its fragmented blatancy to look their total doom in the eye and withstand it The offal of the phenomenal world becomes, to sick consciousness, the mundus intelligibilis."

The Russians couldn't possibly build an A bomb without Commie traitors. The Russians are too dumb. Hitler couldn't have been defeated by the Red Army marching across Eastern Europe and half Germany. Traitors let it happen. JFK couldn't have been shot by Oswald -- it had to be the CIA. RFK couldn't have been shot by Sirhan--it had to be the CIA. There are no end to examples seeking to prove that Russians, Arabs, Viet Cong, Japanese, etc etc couldn't possibly match the brilliance and cunning of secret cabals of white Christians. It's all pathetic but it does save the trouble of reading and thinking.

The conspiracists make dizzying "deductive" leaps. There is a one particularly vigorous coven which has established to its own satisfaction that the original NASA moon landing was faked, and never took place. This "conspiracy" would have required the complicity of thousands of people , all of whom have kept their mouths shut. The proponents of the "fake moon landing" plot tend to overlap with the JFK and 9/11 crowds.

These are just three of the paragraphs that sum up the total foolishness and stupidity of people who WANT to belive something so assinine. Hillary will save us huh? LOL! Conan you should be putting all this energy into ways of defeating terrorism not perpetuating it

Originally Posted by agentsmith

This is where my reply was directed. Read all the posts before you add a remark. It saves money on bandwidth.

also, History has Everything to do with it.

[pMJWFoAWD]

This is where my reply was directed. Read all the posts before you add a remark. It saves money on bandwidth.

also, History has Everything to do with it.

Originally Posted by Conan21

Nope. Wrong again.

[samanthalueus]

H
I also posted video of the molten steel at ground zero. You did not address that.

Originally Posted by Conan21

Ask to be enlightened and I shall enlighten you...

Photographs that we have examined purporting to show demolition equipment extracting "molten steel" from the debris at ground zero are inconclusive at best, and most are inaccurate as described. Extracting various hot molten compounds or debris is one thing, but "molten steel beams" is quite another. As a fundamental point, if an excavator or a grapple ever dug into a pile of molten steel heated to an excess of 2000 degrees Fahrenheit it would lose its ability to function. At a minimum the hydraulics would immediately fail and its moving parts would bond up or seize together. The heat would then quickly transfer through the steel components of the excavator and there would be concern for its operator. The photos we have reviewed on various websites do not show any of this, and if anything, indicate that the underground fires- while very hot- were not enough to melt steel.

http://www.jod911.com/WTC%20COLLAPSE...d%208-8-06.pdf

But wait there is more...

Jones: “Who can deny that liquid, molten metal existed at the WTC disaster? The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of approximately 1000 oC, evidently above that which the dark-smoke hydrocarbon fires in the Towers could produce. If aluminum (e.g., from the plane) had melted, it would melt and flow away from the heat source at its melting point of about 650 oC and thus would not reach the yellow color observed for this molten metal. Thus, molten aluminum is already ruled out with high probability.”



To rule out aluminium so quickly is poor science, because we don’t know what the temperatures were in the impact zone, while we do know that many metric tonnes of aluminium constituting the plane were in the area just above the outflow of molten metal. Of course, the alternative hypothesis, that the molten metal was iron or steel, should be also considered carefully. The argument of Jones is that if the molten metal were steel, then it would support the CD theory. But the link between molten steel and controlled demolition is non-existent, as thermite is not used in controlled demolition. Hence Jones requires a variation on controlled demolition: controlled demolition plus the use gratuitous and incompetent use of thermite. We have to believe that the conspirators had researched controlled demolition so badly as to decide on the use of thermite. Now, Jones estimates that “Roughly 2,000 pounds of RDX-grade linear-shaped charges” would be sufficient to bring the building down, and such a quantity of explosive might conceivably have been hidden in each of the towers. But the quantity of thermite required to produce this stream of molten metal is much greater. 107 Kg of thermite is required to produce 54 Kg of molten iron, and the stream of molten metal flowing from the impact zone (if iron) has been estimated at thousands of kilograms. Even if the stream is only 1,000 kg of iron, then 2,000 kg, or two metric tonnes, of thermite would be required. But the CD hypothesis implies much more than this. For a start the thermite would have been distributed over the proposed target floor for initial collapse, so it would be very difficult for the molten iron products to pool in one place and pour out. Secondly, the CD hypothesis agrees that the floor(s) of impact of the plane could not have been exactly predicted, so every, say, 5 floors, another couple of metric tonnes of thermite would be required. (Jones: ‘… to make it appear that the planes somehow initiated the collapse; cutter-charges could have been pre-placed at numerous spots in the building, since one would not know exactly where the planes would enter.’) Even if only the top half of the building were so prepared, then we would anticipate 2 metric tonnes x 11 locations or 22 tonnes. If the mass of stream of molten metal were estimated at more like 10,000 kg of iron then the figure goes up to 220 tonnes of thermite. We have to believe (a) that the conspirators were ignorant enough to attempt to use thermite, and (b) could insinuate between 22 and 220 tonnes of thermite, plus charges, plus radio firing systems, into each tower.



If in addition, thermite is required by the CD hypothesis to account for the molten steel in the basement after collapse, then we have to add an addition two tonnes of thermite for every tonne of molten iron. The problem for the CD theory is in fact that no reliable estimates exist of the amount of molten metal, if any, in the basements.



To sum up, it is a tough job to for the CD hypothesis to account for the stream of molten metal as iron produced from thermite reaction because (a) the choice of thermite requires the conspirators to be incompetent, (b) pooling of the molten iron would require the odd concentration of thermite on a given floor in one location, and (c) the quantity needed (22-220 tonnes) would be hard to smuggle in and hide in the building. This quantity increases by two tonnes per every tonne of molten steel estimated to be in the basements.



The IF hypothesis suggests that the molten metal is aluminium (and other alloys used in plane construction), and that it pooled in that location because that is where the plane was. As Jones rightly point out however, the IF hypothesis would require the molten aluminium (and alloys) to attain temperatures several hundred degrees above melting point. The IF hypothesis also requires that the molten steel in the basement have been heated by a combination of fire and mgh energy, so much rests on estimates of those factors.



I want to add a hypothesis that may yet explain the high temperatures, and would need to be disproved by the CD theorists: that some of the aluminium in the planes was ignited on impact. I return to this issue later on.


http://www.jnani.org/mrking/writings/911/king911.htm


Molten Steel thoery at ground zero address and dispelled. Next question please...

[Babposa]

Ask to be enlightened and I shall enlighten you...

Photographs that we have examined purporting to show demolition equipment extracting "molten steel" from the debris at ground zero are inconclusive at best, and most are inaccurate as described. Extracting various hot molten compounds or debris is one thing, but "molten steel beams" is quite another. As a fundamental point, if an excavator or a grapple ever dug into a pile of molten steel heated to an excess of 2000 degrees Fahrenheit it would lose its ability to function. At a minimum the hydraulics would immediately fail and its moving parts would bond up or seize together. The heat would then quickly transfer through the steel components of the excavator and there would be concern for its operator. The photos we have reviewed on various websites do not show any of this, and if anything, indicate that the underground fires- while very hot- were not enough to melt steel.

http://www.jod911.com/WTC%20COLLAPSE...d%208-8-06.pdf

But wait there is more...

Jones: “Who can deny that liquid, molten metal existed at the WTC disaster? The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of approximately 1000 oC, evidently above that which the dark-smoke hydrocarbon fires in the Towers could produce. If aluminum (e.g., from the plane) had melted, it would melt and flow away from the heat source at its melting point of about 650 oC and thus would not reach the yellow color observed for this molten metal. Thus, molten aluminum is already ruled out with high probability.”



To rule out aluminium so quickly is poor science, because we don’t know what the temperatures were in the impact zone, while we do know that many metric tonnes of aluminium constituting the plane were in the area just above the outflow of molten metal. Of course, the alternative hypothesis, that the molten metal was iron or steel, should be also considered carefully. The argument of Jones is that if the molten metal were steel, then it would support the CD theory. But the link between molten steel and controlled demolition is non-existent, as thermite is not used in controlled demolition. Hence Jones requires a variation on controlled demolition: controlled demolition plus the use gratuitous and incompetent use of thermite. We have to believe that the conspirators had researched controlled demolition so badly as to decide on the use of thermite. Now, Jones estimates that “Roughly 2,000 pounds of RDX-grade linear-shaped charges” would be sufficient to bring the building down, and such a quantity of explosive might conceivably have been hidden in each of the towers. But the quantity of thermite required to produce this stream of molten metal is much greater. 107 Kg of thermite is required to produce 54 Kg of molten iron, and the stream of molten metal flowing from the impact zone (if iron) has been estimated at thousands of kilograms. Even if the stream is only 1,000 kg of iron, then 2,000 kg, or two metric tonnes, of thermite would be required. But the CD hypothesis implies much more than this. For a start the thermite would have been distributed over the proposed target floor for initial collapse, so it would be very difficult for the molten iron products to pool in one place and pour out. Secondly, the CD hypothesis agrees that the floor(s) of impact of the plane could not have been exactly predicted, so every, say, 5 floors, another couple of metric tonnes of thermite would be required. (Jones: ‘… to make it appear that the planes somehow initiated the collapse; cutter-charges could have been pre-placed at numerous spots in the building, since one would not know exactly where the planes would enter.’) Even if only the top half of the building were so prepared, then we would anticipate 2 metric tonnes x 11 locations or 22 tonnes. If the mass of stream of molten metal were estimated at more like 10,000 kg of iron then the figure goes up to 220 tonnes of thermite. We have to believe (a) that the conspirators were ignorant enough to attempt to use thermite, and (b) could insinuate between 22 and 220 tonnes of thermite, plus charges, plus radio firing systems, into each tower.



If in addition, thermite is required by the CD hypothesis to account for the molten steel in the basement after collapse, then we have to add an addition two tonnes of thermite for every tonne of molten iron. The problem for the CD theory is in fact that no reliable estimates exist of the amount of molten metal, if any, in the basements.



To sum up, it is a tough job to for the CD hypothesis to account for the stream of molten metal as iron produced from thermite reaction because (a) the choice of thermite requires the conspirators to be incompetent, (b) pooling of the molten iron would require the odd concentration of thermite on a given floor in one location, and (c) the quantity needed (22-220 tonnes) would be hard to smuggle in and hide in the building. This quantity increases by two tonnes per every tonne of molten steel estimated to be in the basements.



The IF hypothesis suggests that the molten metal is aluminium (and other alloys used in plane construction), and that it pooled in that location because that is where the plane was. As Jones rightly point out however, the IF hypothesis would require the molten aluminium (and alloys) to attain temperatures several hundred degrees above melting point. The IF hypothesis also requires that the molten steel in the basement have been heated by a combination of fire and mgh energy, so much rests on estimates of those factors.



I want to add a hypothesis that may yet explain the high temperatures, and would need to be disproved by the CD theorists: that some of the aluminium in the planes was ignited on impact. I return to this issue later on.


http://www.jnani.org/mrking/writings/911/king911.htm


Molten Steel thoery at ground zero address and dispelled. Next question please...

Originally Posted by Rhandhular

Nope. Wrong again

[blogwado]

So it is your opinion that the official history of our planet and all the events that have happend on earth are all accurately recorded?

There are are no hidden/occult/secret/alternative histories? Because it would take too many people to cover up anything that would be on a grand scale?

I'm not sure how many conspirators it would take to cover up the events you proposed. My guess is that it would not be thousands as you say.

How many conspirators do you think it took to create a fake religion called Christiany and keep it a relative secret for 2,000 years?

Originally Posted by Conan21

Fake religion? What does this have to do with crack pot 9-11 stupiditys? Or do you think your too smart to belive in God? If you are right, then laugh at me in the end you will. If I am right about God then 9-11 will be the least of your worries......C,mon Conan bust this evil plan wide open. Prove it and I will personally shoot all evil republicans and swear my allegiance to the socialist(progressive) party.

[Cerilopasei]

Nope. Wrong again

Originally Posted by Conan21

Once again you provide nothing to back up your allegations that I am wrong. Take the Molten Steel theory back to the drawing board Conan. lol

[galaktiusman]

Fake religion? What does this have to do with crack pot 9-11 stupiditys? Or do you think your too smart to belive in God? If you are right, then laugh at me in the end you will. If I am right about God then 9-11 will be the least of your worries......C,mon Conan bust this evil plan wide open. Prove it and I will personally shoot all evil republicans and swear my allegiance to the socialist(progressive) party.

Originally Posted by agentsmith

These guys never prove anything AS. It will be a long time before you are pledging allegiance to the socialist party

[DarrenBent]

Once again you provide nothing to back up your allegations that I am wrong. Take the Molten Steel theory back to the drawing board Conan. lol

Originally Posted by Rhandhular

Exactly what you did to my post. An ignorant comment deserves an ignorant response which is what you received.

Reasons

1. I was referring to history and religion in reference to Agent Smith's post. Stating that vast occult histories do exist. History has everything to do with
where society is heading.
2. I never even mentioned Thermite, why are you dispproving something I didn't claim? I was just asking to explain it because it shouldn't be there.
3. All that machines operators would have to do is work around the pools.
4. You article tries to explain the molten pools but Nist doesn't even acknowledge them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZUHBKwYRw0

Your theory
The aluminum from the planes is what caused these pools

Well how does that account for building 7's Lava pool?
Would these aluminum pools keep burning for months? The last one did not burn out untill December.

[SetSnonejog]

3. All that machines operators would have to do is work around the pools.

Originally Posted by Conan21

Oh I see. They could work right next to 2000 degrees pools of molten steel. That statement was the dumbest one you have made yet. Let me repost the info that discredits the molten steel theory again...

Photographs that we have examined purporting to show demolition equipment extracting "molten steel" from the debris at ground zero are inconclusive at best, and most are inaccurate as described. Extracting various hot molten compounds or debris is one thing, but "molten steel beams" is quite another. As a fundamental point, if an excavator or a grapple ever dug into a pile of molten steel heated to an excess of 2000 degrees Fahrenheit it would lose its ability to function. At a minimum the hydraulics would immediately fail and its moving parts would bond up or seize together. The heat would then quickly transfer through the steel components of the excavator and there would be concern for its operator. The photos we have reviewed on various websites do not show any of this, and if anything, indicate that the underground fires- while very hot- were not enough to melt steel.

http://www.jod911.com/WTC%20COLLAPSE...d%208-8-06.pdf

4. You article tries to explain the molten pools but Nist doesn't even acknowledge them.

Originally Posted by Conan21

Comprehension skills keeping you down? The article comes to the conclusion that there where no pools of molten steel.

2. I never even mentioned Thermite, why are you dispproving something I didn't claim? I was just asking to explain it because it shouldn't be there.

Originally Posted by Conan21

Thermite is the substance that allegedly caused the pools of molten steel. Do you even know your own conspiracies?

Well how does that account for building 7's Lava pool?
Would these aluminum pools keep burning for months? The last one did not burn out untill December.

Originally Posted by Conan21

Or so YOU say. To bad you cannot prove that this occurred. lol

[SetSnonejog]

I never said anything about Thermite. I'm not saying that is not what the metal is but I did not propose that to you. I just asked what caused these molten pools that were under all three piles of debris to burn for months and you went off on a false tangant. I'll use one of your lines here..."stay on topic"...

so bottom line.
We have pools of molten "lava" as described by clean up crew under all 3 buildings that was so hot they couldn't get near them. Pools that were not put out for months and this was caused by the airplanes aluminum? Also NIST doesn't even acknowledge these airplane pools.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM7HI4kjtvA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR7_9QgAb-I

Thats an interesting conspiracy theory you have there...

[Abofedrorobox]

I never said anything about Thermite. I'm not saying that is not what the metal is but I did not propose that to you. I just asked what caused these molten pools that were under all three piles of debris to burn for months and you went off on a false tangant. I'll use one of your lines here..."stay on topic"...

so bottom line.
We have pools of molten "lava" as described by clean up crew under all 3 buildings that was so hot they couldn't get near them. Pools that were not put out for months and this was caused by the airplanes aluminum? Also NIST doesn't even acknowledge these airplane pools.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM7HI4kjtvA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR7_9QgAb-I

Thats an interesting conspiracy theory you have there...

Originally Posted by Conan21

Again your comprehension skills are inadequate. The article states there were not pools of molten steel.
Take care and be well.

[TriamiCaw]

No Pools?

I guess all of those guys working on the debris talking about these "lava pools" and extreme temperatures were part of the 9/11 truth conspiracy?

P.S your link doesn't even work.

[Gabbavnf]

There are dozens of facts in the articles I sent. You can also get contact information there to challenge the editor of TVNL with your brilliance. What are your credentials that you can challenge the physicists and other scholars who have debunked the official story? Of course, you're ready to support your claim.

The editor at TVNL has openly challenged anyone to debate him anywhere at anytime. Let's see if you'll do that. Yeah, right.

editor@tvnewslies.org Write to him. Post his answer. Let's see what you do.

Originally Posted by shadow7

He is apparently unwilling to debate the mighty Rhandhular though. I sent a second email to the address you provided today and I will keep you updated on whether your hero responds this time.

[objennasweene]

He is apparently unwilling to debate the mighty Rhandhular though. I sent a second email to the address you provided today and I will keep you updated on whether your hero responds this time.

Originally Posted by Rhandhular

[tevyrefficy]

Originally Posted by kawasaki1

Still waiting. lol

[DesautocaD]

A national college famous in the field of engineering,(and I'm sorry I can't recall the name) has released their 2 year study on what brought the towers down. Answer? TWO PLANES!