[Beerinkol]

http://hurryupharry.org/2011/08/05/g...nd-of-zionism/

Here’s David Hearst, a foreign leader writer for the Guardian:
If Israel ends its occupation of the West Bank, and allows it to join with Gaza, the result could be two states – a Palestinian one alongside an Israeli one. But if you accompany that with a civil rights movement inside Israel, the goal could be very different – a secular, democratic state “for all its citizens”, where Jew, Christian and Muslim are equal. A one-state solution in which Jewish citizens lose an inbuilt majority. The end of Zionism, no less.This appears to be the outcome that Hearst hopes for. It doesn’t matter that there is no major Palestinian political movement which is seriously advocating such a “secular democratic state”. Hamas most certainly isn’t. And neither is Fatah.


Most pro-Palestinian activism these days is unphased by the dominance of Palestinian religious and ethnic politics. Palestinians have a well developed sense of religious and ethnic identity: predominantly as Muslims and/or as Arabs. Many supporters of the Palestinian cause are as enthusiastic about Palestinian nationalism as they are hostile to Jewish nationalism. Palestinian nationality is typically portrayed as organic and authentic, as opposed to the false and alien nationality of Jews. Israel is the home to the descendants of millions of Jews, ethnically cleansed from the whole of the Middle East. Nevertheless, Jews are routinely characterised as interlopers, while Palestinian nationalism is depicted as rooted in the soil.

You won’t see many leader-writers in the Guardian calling for the recreation of a United Sudan. I don’t think I’ve seen any editorials in the Guardian suggesting that Ethiopia and Eritrea be integrated into a single state. Nobody would think of calling for the uniting of Greece and Turkey, or of Bangladesh, Pakistan and India. I expect, by contrast, that there’s a reasonable amount of support in the Guardian for Scottish independence, even if the majority of Englishmen wished to preserve the Union.
However, when it comes to Israel and Palestine, the calculus is different. I think we understand why that is.
As things stand, the Guardian officially supports some form of two state settlement. Its Palestine Papers leader, earlier this year, argued:
Let there be no doubt. A two-state solution remains the only show in town. It is still achievable despite the agony of these revelations and the conflicts of the last two decades.Some time in the next few years, that line will change. The Guardian will declare two states a thing of the past, and will declare – in sadness and anger – that Israel should no longer exist.

[Beerinkol]

Jewish nationality, or Zionism, is very "false and alien". It's extremely fake and superficial. It is a invented construct just as nationalism is in general, like American nationalism. The Jewish nation is something more then "nation", its an ancient tribal construct with religious basis that keeps it intact because of lack of land and dominion. In reality, Israel is an ethnoreligious socialist nationalist state. It does not seek to promote or advocate for the rights of its Arab citizens. It never will. It will destroy Zionism which is outdated and completely unworkable on many levels, as far as building a Jewish state is concerned. Knowing this, who is anyone to say the Palestinians don't have a right to self-determination in their homeland? Who is to say that these people do not have a right to defend themselves from Jewish arrogance and encroachment of their private lands? I'm saying homeland in the same idea Jews have a homeland: they live there now and exist as a separate entity that requires self-determination. Jews come with a completely idealistic and unreal dream that was borne out of watching too many bad Hollywood movies and other illusory ideas.

Frankly, it is almost impossible for Israel to exist as a separate entity from its Arab populations. It's an unworkable situation unless you want to keep Palestinians as second-class humans. This is what you are advocating; "My civil rights over yours." The Palestinians largely are advocating the same but Israel cannot maintain this facade of some Israel without Arabs, or even Arabs taking over. Israel does not want to give up the West Bank so this is a problem. The only way to achieve this is massacre and transfer, and you seriously think someone would carry out or even advocate this?

Of course Palestinian nationalism is very extreme if not abhorrently so, but what sort of nationalism isn't in its infancy, or when it's pushed into a corner? Fact is Jews have come from abroad to make their homes here over the rights of the native Arab inhabitants. You can try to avoid this situation as much but this is the reality on the ground, and frankly living in denial is disgusting. Too many times do I meet idealistic religious fools who are in complete disarray and have no respect for anything except their superficial religious bullshit that has been shruded with a fake and materialistic brand of Torah worship. It is exactly like the corruption of the upper class Judeans 2000 years back. Fact is, Arabs exist here and want to do so separately as well without their Jewish masters. Jews came to a predominantly Arab area to exercize their dream. Jews were too much of cowards, or did not have enough power to expel every single Arab and this is what we have today This is the reality. It is time to stop with the idealism. The only answers are complete annexation and full rights to everyone or remaining as an "island state" among its Arab neighbors.

Which do you prefer? You choose. The latter will make Israel more isolated and eventually implode. Good luck with that. War is an inevitability considering the importance of Israel, which is built upon blasphemous and idolatrous ideals. Zionism has become a cowering force who is afraid of the future. This will eventually mean its destruction. Yet the fools are trying to keep this shaky ground somewhat stable until it will crumble completely because of its impossibility.

[Beerinkol]

Danholo, are you done with your speech? Quite frankly it is B-O-R-I-N-G [YAWN]

[Lillie_Steins]

Wow ... That's all I can say ... wow. What negativity. I cannot disagree more danholo ...

[Peptobismol]

Jewish nationality, or Zionism, is very "false and alien". It's extremely fake and superficial. It is a invented construct just as nationalism is in general, like American nationalism...

American and Israeli nationalism are neither fake nor superficial. Both countries will be around long after you are dead and forgotten. Am Yisrael chai.