[inchaaruutaa]

Solom, the day comes that you NEED help because of those carebears you don't see worthy of being killed in combat they encourage to continue, your going to find a different person standing at the end of the gun. Not exactly how you imagine it, but I can bet you that if that time ever comes it will be a person you don't care exists and didn't pay enough (lack of a better word) respect to for what he/she did.


I could care less of all of your opinions about me. Call me crazy, fu.ck it I told the psych that myself in a psych eval a few months ago...but I actually passed that eval just fine and the doc recommended i take psychology in school (screw that, i don't care to know people any better than i already do). But Solom this is something you won't trully understand coming from someone elses mouth (or don't care to even try to understand coming from me specifically)

When you are told that you are being uprooted and going to war the world changes for you. It is different in everyone, for me it was imminent fear of death mixed with "this is what I was trained to do" excitement. When we got hit by an IED the first time it was like being transported onto an alien world. I knew what to do, I was already ready to go, and I reacted how I was trained to react. You get into a mindset that is all actions and thought is mixed into the adrenaline so you don't actually think because it is all processed (you won't understand this unless you have been shot at, you are thinking but actions and thought at merged in a way). The first time I saw a friend get hit it was just like a movie, no sound, no motion, just my friend, a guy I had known for about a year, body falling over and then crimson red and dirt. He lived, just got hit in the leg, not a bad wound actually, but it was still the first time I was in that kind of sh.it. Now did I feel I the enemy needed to die? At that moment yes, because they felt I didn't deserve to live. The enemy sees it that way, and do not try to misconstrue this because past actions are more than enough fact for this statement, our enemy wants us dead, rotting, birds eating our corpses. They don't want to maim us, to scratch us, to hurt our feelings. They want us dead. Now when you are being shot at by a person who you know will not hesitate to shoot you if you hesitate to shoot them you stop thinking about should I kill or just hurt him. When you got bullets flying and RPGs flying (not the intense intense combat in movies) you do not consider "shoot in the knees". I didn't consider them as anything more than a target. Call it brainwashed...but like I said, you won't understand until you have personally lived it.

[SallyIsNice5]

Really Rie? Were you in my platoon?

[Gakeincidoniac]

I WAZ IN IRAQISTAN! MY CONVOY WAS HIT BY AN IED! BLOOD WAS EVERYWHERE! 9/11 CHANGED EVERYTHING!

[radicalvolume]

I've been around enough soldiers to know that you don't even sound like one. You don't use the military jargon or the acronyms and you conveniently mention catchy themes like IEDs, RPGs, and a wounded buddy with a leg wound. A soldier who has been in combat wouldn't use his war experiences as some kind of crutch for moral superiority in order to lord it over other people on an internet message board. You are a damn joke.

[nasdfrdg]

I've been around enough soldiers to know that you don't even sound like one. You don't use the military jargon or the acronyms and you conveniently mention catchy themes like IEDs, RPGs, and a wounded buddy with a leg wound. A soldier who has been in combat wouldn't use his war experiences as some kind of crutch for moral superiority on an internet message board. You are a damn joke.

QFT

[Kuncher]

See thats where your line of combat and mine are not close to relating, as you have 0 experience and I have 5 years experience. A soldier kills an enemy on a battlefield, thats right. A soldier kills an insurgent in an occupied city, thats right. A soldier kills a possible terrorist at a checkpoint, that is wrong or right? An undercover operative, military trained, kills a terrorist cell in an unknown country, is that wrong or right? A special forces team kills a terrorist cell while they are plotting an attack, is that wrong or right? A cover operative detains and interrogates an enemy insurgent who has information that could save hundreds of Iraqi civilians, he uses extremes to get information, is that wrong or right? A SEAL team finds and detains a high ranking terrorist and do what they have to do to stop a nuke attack on a major city, is that wrong or right?

IMHO all of the above are right. Why they are right is simple, no loss of civilian lives. The moment someone picks up a weapon, sells a weapon, trades a weapon, helps plot, etc. with terrorists/insurgents/ etc. they are enemies and are due for a bullet. Now I won't say those that cooperate are enemies because our enemies don't follow any rules and will murder entire families to make someone cooperate, they will not hesitate to kill. I have seen what happens when an insurgent straps a bomb to his chest and blows himself in a crowd of people, I have seen what happens when a couple of terrorists drive a car to a check point loaded with explosives and set it off. They have no care for us or innocent life, they expect that the innocents are supposed to die to bring about their cause. Now where you stop seeing these vermin as enemies is beyond me, but I am curious to know how you draw your conclusion that some murderers deserve to die and some do not.

[Arr34ston]

Zakudl gets more mileage out of the mythical nuke attack on a major city than even Dick Cheney.

[jadabaad]

"5 years." You never saved millions of people in anything you did. The atrocities, cited by people who had a lot more than 5 years EACH, never saved millions either. The military kills in order to defend. I know, I was there. This is our duty and our charge. Real soldiers work for civilians and are proud to do so. Your rants make you sound unreal.

Separately, torture has a short half-life and mostly doesn't work. Ask the Mafia, they are real pros. Ask the VC, they were pros too as were the North Koreans and the NKVD. All of them did it, all of them got a lot of bad data.

[wp6Eg2Fm]

[Q=zakubandit;5698843]And Stray, perfect example of a good man doing an evil thing for the greater good.[/Q] Not really, the interrogation produced nothing useful, and the murder of the officer contrary to the prevailing rules of war was a permanent black mark on his honor.

It is merely to point out that things happen in the field when judgment gets distorted. That doesn't make all such incidents war crimes.

[Jxmwzgpv]

Now I am curious where the deduction that interrogation done by our experts did not produce anything. Where did that come from? Were any of you the information analysts or present for said interrogations? Real soldiers do not work for civilians, Blau, we serve and defend civilians. Yes when I was tasked to work with contractors regardless of what the task was I was still required to treat them with the same respect as I gave other civilians and contractors, sir ma'am. BUT, Blau you should know this, DoD contractors hold GS levels that add out to equivalents of officer rank, thus they do offer authority...where in contrast, and as was the assumption by the poster before, was that due to civilians being tax payers and in turn our paycheck that they are in turn granted authority over soldiers. That is incorrect, as no civilian offers authority to give orders unless authorized by DoD and/or Congress.

If I seem unreal it is because I don't bite my tongue, or has that not been apparent. If you don't want to read my posts I could give 2 shits, don't read them, print them out and wipe your ass with them.

Solom, please quote me on where I said that I see soldiers as murders. I see terrorists and insurgents for the murderers they are. I believe soldiers should be allowed to do their jobs. Yes what our side does should not be a reflection of what the enemy does...but what is wrong and what hurts soldiers in the long run is when the enemy gets more vicious (ie; women suicide bombers) and we tie our own hands more (ie; no shooting until confirmed that insurgents are actually shooting at you) then people die. When our side is not permitted to wage war as war is intended to be waged then we lose lives. When our enemy has no consideration for who lives and dies but our guys get blamed for a few accidental civilian deaths at the price of taking down a high command of the bad guys...that is just malarkey. Civilians bad mouth soldiers constantly, they purposely go after soldiers and do not allow them to do their jobs the way they need to. I do not condone what was done at Abu Ghraib by the jailers, but when civilians go out with the intent to make sure they catch every **** up that happens you get the entire force under a magnifying glass...and what happens then? Pvt. Snuffy can't wipe his ass the way he wants to without it being scrutinized. Sgt. Loudass can't order his guys to lay suppressive fire on a house where fire is coming from because there may be civilians in it. Lt. Dumbass can't fire his 120mm at an on coming car that refuses to slow down for a check point...and what is the end result of what happens when soldiers can't kill the enemy? They kill us. Notation: CP's, patrols, etc.

Blau, if you mean to say you serve then I give you the respectful agree to disagree. If indeed you served (as I am questioned I believe I am justified to question others) then you also have a better understanding of what the real world is like. And if you mean to refute my opinion and experience, then please do so with your experiences. Fill me in on what it was you did, what you went through that granted you your perspective. And if you were an E-7 or above...well politics usually got in the way after the 6.

[Zdmlscid]

Here:

but I am curious to know how you draw your conclusion that some murderers deserve to die and some do not. Since the only people for whom I've mentioned deserved consequences are our soldiers who go off the reservation, those are the only people your quote can possibly refer to, unless you were either lying about what I said or couldn't understand it enough to follow along. Judging by the rest of your post, I'm leaning toward option C.

[Pypeassesty]

So were you lying or confused, then? I must say I was disappointed, but not surprised, given your past lack of respect for those Americans who serve in the military, to see you call our boys murderers. I'm less disappointed, and far less surprised, to see you trying to weasel out of it now. You're pathetic, zakudl.