[MattJargin]

NYE, here is my question from the previous thread before that tyrant Lori closed it:

Where would extubation in respiratory failure fall under that classification, nye?

Or palliative opiates for terminal bone cancer?

[Sapremolz]

I don't think mandating any type of health care for legal consenting adults is a good idea; either requiring it or not.

I do agree, however, that there should be prereqs for certain procedures. Say, new hip? lets shake the cardio issue that has sent you to bed rest first.

I know someone who is rejecting her liver transplant because she decided to take up smoking again. That really angers me, especially since she is on medicare/medicade and was forced to quit smoking to get the transplant. WTF? I would really like to see this stopped, but then...

[awagsFare]

Tort insurance was calculated to be a small amount of the total health insurance cost by KH and myself in another thread. I couldn't find it last time I looked, but it was this year.

JM

[loginptsa]

This is not really about Sarah Palin but it is about the lying crazy lady who invented the "death panels" lie which Palin popularized among the wing nuts. Betsy McCaughey, the Former Republican Lt Gov of New York & appointed "Health care expert" at the right wing astroturf group The Hudson Institute, completely made up the lie that Obama's "death panels" were going to kill your Grandmother has now resigned because, she claims, the media is picking on her. By picking on her she means pointing out she's a liar who pulled a claim out of her butt.

http://washingtonindependent.com/560...-medical-board

McCaughey recently got destroyed on the Daily Show with Jon Stuart when Stuart ran circles around her and her death panel claims along with her new claim that Obama's going to eliminate $500 billion from Medicare, which is also a lie. Watch this clip from the Daily Show.

[Dilangfh]

It looks that way.

[toyboy]

OK, had to reread that. Yes, she resigned from Cantel Medical Corp. but is still working for the astroturf group so she can still make up lies to scare seniors claiming Obama is going to kill them and take away Medicare from them.

I have to say it is funny that Republicans are claiming the government could never run a decent health care program while also claiming that they're planning on ending Medicare which is an extremely popular and successful government run health care program.

[dushappeaps]

Straybow posted:

"The only scarcity is in places like Canada and UK."
See Lori's post in the first thread. Scarcity for health care exists in every nation. Health care is one of the most important services produced. The problem is that resources are often diverted to less important areas of the economy.

"The rising cost of health care isn't a problem."

1) People are struggling to pay their bills.
2) Many people can't afford insurance.
3) People forgo recommended care.
4) Less employers offer health care benefits as the cost increases.
5) The federal and state governments have strained budgets due to healthcare costs.

You can't be serious dude.

"The costs rise because we're getting better diagnostics and treatments over time."

That's only a small part of the reason. But the increased cost of those treatments must be justified by both the benefit of them and the implications for the whole health care system and the economy. It's not enough to just say costs have increased because health care is now better than it was before.

"More hospitals with MRI and CAT machines."

Again. Sure that's better because a patient doesn't have to travel as far to get to one of these machines, but does the increased cost justify this? And can we as a society afford these costs.

"More effective drugs."

Indeed. The inflation rate for prescription drugs far exceeds the general inflation rate. Same point does the benefit exceed the cost.

"The most serious obstacle to availability in this country is the enormous tort insurance burden placed on doctors and hospitals, which none of the Dems are addressing."
Source?

One of the major problems is that the American dream of the 1950s, working for a big corporation and getting a decent wage has largely vanished. More people now are working for small businesses or working part time, perhaps even multiple part time jobs. They're not being offered insurance as part of their employment package.

You do realise that they typical insurance package costs about $ 4000 to $ 8000 / year. If your wage is $ 10 / hour, you make $ 20,000 / year, and a health insurance policy would eat up 1/4 of your pay, or if your employer shelled out for an insurance policy it would be essentially a 25% raise.

It amkes me wonder. If the US had government had gone ahead and instituted universal health care 40 years ago would the flight of industrial jobs out of the country been prevented? How different would US society be today?

[OgrGlgHu]

One of the major problems is that the American dream of the 1950s, working for a big corporation and getting a decent wage has largely vanished. More people now are working for small businesses or working part time, perhaps even multiple part time jobs.

Source? I tried finding historical data on the % of Americans employed by small businesses but was thwarted.

It amkes me wonder. If the US had government had gone ahead and instituted universal health care 40 years ago would the flight of industrial jobs out of the country been prevented? Thankfully, no.

[beriarele]

It's a sad fact that most of the best investigative journalism done in America today is on his comedy show.

I hear this a lot, but honestly, was there a time in history when satirists were not society's most powerful and valuable critics? There's a reason why Shakespeare gave all the good insights to "fool" characters.

Also, I don't think that Stewart's show qualifies as investigative journalism. For the most part, he's just taking publicly available information and rearranging it so it stings, no?

[hrotedk]

ie, would it discourage a certain number of people from seeking active care?

ISN'T THAT THE ENTIRE POINT OF INTRODUCING AN OPTION?

Seriously. "If we tell people they have an option to avoid active care and just be euthanized, could more people choice to avoid active care and just be euthanized?"

[Reocourgigiot]

ie, would it discourage a certain number of people from seeking active care?

ISN'T THAT THE ENTIRE POINT OF INTRODUCING AN OPTION?

Seriously. "If we tell people they have an option to avoid active care and just be euthanized, could more people choice to avoid active care and just be euthanized?"
[megasize]OVER PEOPLE WHO SOUGHT IT OUT ON THEIR OWN![/megasize]

IOW, people who are not prepared to face the decisions.

[crazuMovies]

Hello there! I see you are discussing Sarah Palin. Perhaps I can be of assistance.

Federal government to reduce this amount of brave soldiers. Entitlements to Kuci's development and infrastructure, maintaining Kitty Dukakis and control the movement of capital and international trade for all illegals, states, civil rights, equal justice for whites, prostitutes. Oerdin, turn the needle to gay. Overall trade between Red China and limit fair competition - our founding fathers would NEVER buy a GM product after Israel. 9-11 changed everything. JM's post is an example of a decision of the court how that freedom Democrats FASCIST Bank.

[Mynameishappy]

Palin is crazy like a fox. All she had to do was refer to Obamacare's "end-of-life consultations" as "death panels" to create a furor that highlighted the dubious nature of the consultations and eventually got them removed from healthcare reform. All too easy...

[ptolerezort]

... I find tort reform to be nothing but a red herring.

Some jurisdictions require a malpractice complaint to be accompanied by an affidavit from a doctor stating that the claim has merit (I think Colorado is one, but don't hold me to that). Here in Alabama, the plaintiff has to find an expert, who has to share the same qualifications (especially board certifications) as the defendant doctor, and who will say that (a) the doctor's performance fell below the appropriate standard of care, and (b) that deviation from the standard probably, as opposed to possibly, caused the plaintiff's injuries.

Solomwi -- In addition to what you say above, I would add that juries LOVE doctors. Most of the defense verdicts I saw were in medical malpractices cases.

It's interesting that Alabama feels the need for the law you described. As a pratical matter, if a plaintiff's attorney does not have a qualified expert who'll testify that there was a deviation which fell below the standard of care, and that deviation probably caused the injury, the plaintiff has no chance of winning. Even with those things, it's doubtful.

[PNCarl]

It hasn't prevented the flight of industrial jobs up here.

What happens is that it tends to raise the cost of workers. Your workers are more expensive work tends to go elsewhere.

We just paid a massive bailout to keep the few remaining auto workers up here.

Doesn't your government pay for health care? It's a business subsidy. Employer based insurance makes exports more expensive.

[skydaypat]

Employers don't pay for health care, you ****ing idiot. Employees do. It doesn't matter who writes the cheques.

[PypeDeft]

Employers don't pay for health care, you ****ing idiot. Employees do. It doesn't matter who writes the cheques.

Employees work for money! Employers pay the employees. They pay for everything the employees consume.

You're getting stupider every ****ing time I talk to you.

[mikeyyuiok]

Employees work for money! Employers pay the employees. They pay for everything the employees consume.

You're getting stupider every ****ing time I talk to you.

Is Kiddy a dl of the same person who did the zakudl?

[TimoDass]

NYE: in that context your post wasn't quite on point, but it does bring up the interesting fact that lump sum disbursements like health care introduce (with a governmental budgetary constraint of some kind) an additional tax wedge between production and consumption. To this extent, government provided health care will REDUCE a country's exports.

[vulikox]

how many threads were there about smearing john edwards in 2005?

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