[QHdy5Z3A]

It appears even "so-called Secular Jews" are extremely influenced by the religion of Judaism so drawing a distinction in the context of Judaism as an engine of conflict, as Siro did, is purely douchebaggery semantics.

[dosugxxx]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Then you fail at reading comprehension, because you skimmed the main body of text. Your quote is "mostly".
You said "entirely".
One of us fails at reading comprehension, and it ain't the one with the black **** avatar.

And aren't we getting awfully away from the main topic of the thread? Not really. Religion as a source of conflict, including Judaism, is fair game.

You may not like it, but it's true. Religious people are insecure like that.

[EnubreBense]

Originally posted by Asher
It appears even "so-called Secular Jews" are extremely influenced by the religion of Judaism so drawing a distinction in the context of Judaism as an engine of conflict, as Siro did, is purely douchebaggery semantics.

This is just like judeo-christian values, and stories are a major influence on most of the western world.

Most jews view the Torah as a cultural heritage, and not the word of god. This is true for world Jews and Israeli Jews.

[texprofi]

Originally posted by Asher

Your quote is "mostly".
You said "entirely".
One of us fails at reading comprehension, and it ain't the one with the black **** avatar. you fail first, because my quote said "mainly".
also, who is arguing semantics now?


Not really. Religion as a source of conflict, including Judaism, is fair game. Judaism is indeed a source of conflict, albeit a passive one, as it brings some people to be anti-semitic. Also it causes Jews to argue among themselves.

The last time Jews conquered land because God told them so was during the times of Joshua, some 1000 BC.
The conquests of David and so forth are political.

You may not like it, but it's true. Religious people are insecure like that. You're also wrong about that, because religious people are very secure in their views. Nothing beats blind faith.

Face it, you wanted to jab one against Judaism in the name of "fairness" but failed miserably because you have no idea about it.

I appreciate your crusade for what you perceive to be fairness, seeing that I go around attacking Islam.

What you have to note is that I took a course on Islam, and one on modern Arab history, so I'm not raising baseless accusations I read on the internets.

[SpecialOFFER]

Originally posted by Asher

Here's a perhaps stupid question -- are there any people who are Jewish (the ethnicity) while not being Jewish (the religion)? If so, are they any significant numbers? Yes. I know dozens personaly, including my best friend from high school, two of my neighbors, several co-workers, so forth and so on.

I define them as not Jewish in the religious sense because some don't profess a belief in God (various are atheists), they don't attend temple and they don't follow Jewish law (either in diet, honoring the Sabbath, or in their dress). yet they define themselves as Jews and follow Jewish customs like Channukah, or Passover, or Yom Kippur, much like you celebrate Chrismas traditions as an atheist.

Most are also supporters of the idea of Zionism, but many of them don't like the orthodox Jewish community.

As for their numbers, I would say that such Jews make up a significant portion of the Diaspora in the Western world, and there are a fair number of them in Israel itself, particulalrly amongst the new immigrants from the Soviet Union.

[robinthesearchmasterh]

Originally posted by GePap


Yes. I know dozens personaly, including my best friend from high school, two of my neighbors, several co-workers, so forth and so on.

I define them as not Jewish in the religious sense because some don't profess a belief in God (various are atheists), they don't attend temple and they don't follow Jewish law (either in diet, honoring the Sabbath, or in their dress). yet they define themselves as Jews and follow Jewish customs like Channukah, or Passover, or Yom Kippur, much like you celebrate Chrismas traditions as an atheist. That's ridiculous. So people who identify as Christian when they don't go to church, read the bible, etc are an ethnicity too?

It sounds like people whose ancestors were Jewish (the religion) still classify themselves as Jewish, as some ethnicity. That's immensely stupid.

[CicyHannyCeli]

Originally posted by Asher
It's a massive difference in meaning, the difference between you being right and you being wrong. now you're just being BK again

If that were true, religious people wouldn't persecute others as they do. They wouldn't need to have churches and synagogues to reinforce the brainwashing and keep people in line. Gays would be permitted to marry, too.

So what has Zionism ever do to your gay rights?
If anything it saved thousands of arab and palestinian gays from stoning and abuse, and Tel Aviv is one of the most gay friendly cities in the world.

I get it, you wanted to show the courses had value. But you've now just conceded that my original point was correct (re: Judaism as a source of conflict), which kind of raises the question of WTF are you ranting for? *sigh* You know well it was a joke

Unless you're seriously willing to catch me up on saying that Judaism is the cause of anti-semitism.

[12Cickprior]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

now you're just being BK again


So what has Zionism ever do to your gay rights? I'm speaking in general terms, but one of the biggest anti-gay bullies in my highschool was an Orthodox Jew.

If anything it saved thousands of arab and palestinian gays from stoning and abuse, and Tel Aviv is one of the most gay friendly cities in the world. Yeah, that's the hottest gay tourist destination in the world. LET'S GO TO ISRAEL! PARTY!

*sigh* You know well it was a joke

Unless you're seriously willing to catch me up on saying that Judaism is the cause of anti-semitism. You're squirming.

Yes or no: is Judaism a source of conflict?

[Qutlsilh]

Originally posted by Asher


Christmas isn't an explicitly religious holiday anymore. It's a celebration of materialism and family. That is what secular folks turned Christmas into because they wanted to keep the holiday tradition (because it was an ingrained part of their culture) at the same time that they left behind its religious significance.

[uncoosesoge]

Originally posted by Asher
I'm speaking in general terms, but one of the biggest anti-gay bullies in my highschool was an Orthodox Jew. Was he very orthodox? He must have hated Zionists too

Yeah, that's the hottest gay tourist destination in the world. LET'S GO TO ISRAEL! PARTY!

You're squirming. Me?
Riiiiight....

Originally posted by Asher
Christmas isn't an explicitly religious holiday anymore. It's a celebration of materialism and family. So is Pesakh (passover) a family holiday, and Purim a children's holiday, and Shavuot a dairy holiday, and Chanuka a fat-food and candles holiday.

[sarasmid]

You're lying! They're all Jewish holidays. I'm secular and don't celebrate them.

[L8fGLM4d]

Originally posted by Felch


I'm not a Jew, but I live near a good many. And we are not in conflict.

Islam is a source of conflict, and it is inherently so. Ask someone in the ME the same question.

[laperuzdfhami]

Saying Judaism is a source of conflict is not the same thing as saying every Jew is a source of conflict...

[whimpykid]

I want to know more about the origins of Hindu civilization

[RlUbQU3R]

I'm not having any issues with people that I live near, and if people don't want to live near me it's their own fault.