[hapasaparaz]

I only drink beer on tap, so don't blame me for not knowing.

Those, by the way, should be 16 oz (a true American pint)

A Brit pint is 20 oz

[Argurnenoni]

God love the Brits. They have a line on the glasses. And woe to the barkeep who cheats.

[Lkemybab]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
One bar near where I live has made a big point of throwing out all their cheater pint glasses and selling true 16 oz pint beers (slopping over the sides and all). They actually did a story on this on NPR and interviewed some like fair pint league guy from Portland.

[Redys]

Originally posted by Traianvs
I'm all for zero tolerance. From experience I realise that driving while drinking the slightest bit makes me more (over)confident etc. And letting teenagers drive when they're 16 is insane imo. But okay roads in North-America are bigger, and everyone has auomatic transmission, but still. I'd never allow my 16 year old son/daughter drive in the narrow Belgian roads. And riding the bus for two extra years teaches them the many necessary skills they need to be better drivers?

[QiuCIOdO]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


And riding the bus for two extra years teaches them the many necessary skills they need to be better drivers? You're making it sound stupid, but driving in Brussels (our capital) isn't an easy matter I'm telling ya. I've been driving a while now, but for some reason people there are more aggressive, unforgiving, and impatient. It's not the driving skills itself, but the overall conduct when engaging in traffic that's problematic for me.

I said elsewhere in America it could be different because there's no traffic, few cars etc, but that doesn't teach em the necessary skills to drive in a crowded city, which is what I peronally need to do in Belgium all the time when I take the car. That's why I always take the train / bus / bike when I can.

I wouldn't trust a 14 year old with an expensive car by the way. Then again I know America is a country in which independance and cleverness are considered as valuable traits so I understand why. Objectively though, letting kids drive a car in a crowded area is irresponsible.

[denSmumbSes]

Originally posted by Traianvs


You're making it sound stupid, but driving in Brussels (our capital) isn't an easy matter I'm telling ya. I've been driving a while now, but for some reason people there are more aggressive, unforgiving, and impatient. It's not the driving skills itself, but the overall conduct when engaging in traffic that's problematic for me.

I said elsewhere in America it could be different because there's no traffic, few cars etc, but that doesn't teach em the necessary skills to drive in a crowded city, which is what I peronally need to do in Belgium all the time when I take the car. That's why I always take the train / bus / bike when I can.

I wouldn't trust a 14 year old with an expensive car by the way. Then again I know America is a country in which independance and cleverness are considered as valuable traits so I understand why. Objectively though, letting kids drive a car in a crowded area is irresponsible. If you are not suited to drive in a chaotic environment, like down town, big city rush hour that is your call. Don't do it. I know several older adults who are uncomfortable with city driving. They avoid it.

I know others who are uncomfortable driving highways at night. Again, they judge themselves and don't drive under conditions they are uncomfortable with.

That means less than zero about the ability of a 14 year old to operate a motor vehicle. They are large enough, by and large. They have the motor skills to do it. If they haven't been told repeatedly that they are retards who can't be trusted with anything of consequence, they most likely have the confidence.

Your being an adult who is incompetent in an area of basic life skills has less than zero bearing on the abilities of others who may be much younger than you.

[investmentonlinev2006x]

It's the same here. Only thing is, city and rural driving are taken into account. As are other things, like driving for work or only being an occassional driver.

That's the good thing about insurance. They can take some individual factors into account. Families can do likewise.

No need for overly restrictive laws for young drivers.

[qp0yfHOf]

Originally posted by notyoueither


If you are not suited to drive in a chaotic environment, like down town, big city rush hour that is your call. Don't do it. I know several older adults who are uncomfortable with city driving. They avoid it.

I know others who are uncomfortable driving highways at night. Again, they judge themselves and don't drive under conditions they are uncomfortable with.

That means less than zero about the ability of a 14 year old to operate a motor vehicle. They are large enough, by and large. They have the motor skills to do it. If they haven't been told repeatedly that they are retards who can't be trusted with anything of consequence, they most likely have the confidence.

Your being an adult who is incompetent in an area of basic life skills has less than zero bearing on the abilities of others who may be much younger than you. Here is the crux of the problem. Your 14 yo may have the motor skills, size and confidence to drive. But they don't have the ability of the other drivers you mentioned, WRT driving or not driving in situations they are uncomfortable. They simply don't know.

However, how are they expected to get that knowledge if they don't drive?

The only accident my stepson has been in, he was by himself and hit a fence. He's now learned to pay attention to his turn and to slow down before he gets to it.

We restricted his driving in the beginning (partly because of said accident) but now drives pretty much freely, now that he has some experience.

ACK!

[Texdolley]

Originally posted by Tuberski
The only accident my stepson has been in, he was by himself and hit a fence.

Those damn fences, they just jump out at you.

[__CVineXPharm__]

That's very impressive.

[Loonakind]

It also goes for your stepson's driving skills.

It's one thing to spin out on ice and hit a fence, it's quite another to oversteer in a (presumably) residential neighborhood.

Though to be fair, he probably was driving some kind of American POS.

[zttrftwsq]

When I first learned to drive (I was 18, though I didn't bother to get a full license until I needed one at 23) I managed to blow out a tire by running over the curb when making a turn.

[chadnezzrr]

Yes, correct. I still have a Honda Passport which is basically the same car made in that same plant. Not a POS. Most reliable car I've ever owned.

[eskimosik]

Mine's a 95 with less than 90k miles on it. Except for standard maint., no work has been needed on it

[FateHostera]

data = irrelevant when people decide to pass laws

[deethythitoth]

Originally posted by Krill


And we have a decent drinking age limit

So Asher, whose stupid now Or do Brits not count as Euros? Brits are immensely stupid.

I'm not sure how they do things in Montreal, but there are laws in Alberta regarding precise measurements. A colleague of mine remarked how strange it was to ask for a pint or a shot and have it be precisely measured by the barkeep, as opposed to just pouring the damn thing.

Alberta, too, has a decent drinking age limit also.

[reervieltnope]

Originally posted by Asher
...even though the average car on the 400-series roads goes 30 above the limit already... This will not become true just because you keep saying it. I drive 1000km per week on the 400 series highways at a speed of 120-125km and I am one of the faster drivers. I pass far more vehicles than those that pass me.

This is all stemming from an incident earlier this year when a kid (I think he was 19) had a TON to drink with 3 of his friends, then they decided to go driving up to cottage country. The kid ended up driving his car off the edge of a cliff into a lake and killed everyone but his girlfriend in the car.

The dad, rather than think maybe his parenting was to blame, immediately blamed "lax" young driver laws in the province. Nevermind that driving drunk was already illegal and this guy was definitely drunk. Nevermind that statistics show that young drivers today are far safer than even 10 years ago and are still improving as it is. This guy went on a public crusade, with the help of the media, demonizing young drivers and acting like something needed to be done. Because it wasn't his fault or his son's fault, it was the province that failed him.

This ****ing assclown is making everyone's life more difficult just because his son was a dumbass.

A good summary except for the omission of one rather important fact. This was not the first time "dumbass" had driving issues. He had several prior speeding tickets which "assclown" was unaware of (as the law doesn't keep parents informed of these things).

The proposed legislation would suspend a "young" or "novice" driver for bad driving habits much sooner than it currently does.


Ozzy - "Guelph" - def - The sound a dog makes while puking.