[RicyReetred]

Depends what you mean by good: from a purely economic perspective then no. Migrants are net contributors, and if they choose later to take whatever private or public (contributory) pensions with them back to wherever they hail from then it doesn't change anything.

From a wider distributional or cultural perspective then of course there are arguments against. But these are inherently subjective and each can draw their own conclusion.

[Mboxmaja]

What about situations where migrants come over, have no kids and then just increase the aging population problem.

I agree that economic migration is good in the short and medium term for as long as they are economically active, but does that contribution turn into a negative once they are in their retired years - or are retired people still good for the economy.

All in all it's better, but is it front loaded such that in the end there is a tail off that is detrimental to the economy?

I'm concerned about the non-intuitive factors and unknown/unknowable data.

[Qdkczrdi]

Originally posted by Dauphin
What about situations where migrants come over, have no kids and then just increase the aging population problem.

I agree that economic migration is good in the short and medium term for as long as they are economically active, but does that contribution turn into a negative once they are in their retired years - or are retired people still good for the economy.

All in all it's better, but is it front loaded such that in the end there is a tail off that is detrimental to the economy?

I'm concerned about the non-intuitive factors and unknown/unknowable data. Interesting angle - couple of important things to bear in mind:

Some migrants will inevitably benefit from the minimum income guaranteed through the benefit system, perhaps sufficiently to worsen the demographic problem, if taken in isolation. But in the main based on what we know about employment histories of migrants, income received in retirement will be on a contributory basis. The debate only really makes sense if you look at the impact of migration as a whole (say opening your labour market versus not) rather than picking out isolated examples.

Secondly, given the characteristics of migrants, in any case there is what you might term a demographic windfall upon opening your labour market - this is essentially the exact reverse of the the pyramid scheme that underpins any "pay as you go" pensions system.

[Giselle]

Heresson, there simply has to be housing outside of the major cities which isn't that expensive. Buy yourself a car and become a commuter. That's the way of things.

[ArrichMer]

I'm talking about the search for cheaper housing. People move further away from cities to find cheaper housing but then have to commute. I doubt Poland's passenger rail system is that well adapted to commuter service so likely it is a car he needs.

[bgsavings]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I'm talking about the search for cheaper housing. People move further away from cities to find cheaper housing but then have to commute. I doubt Poland's passenger rail system is that well adapted to commuter service so likely it is a car he needs. This is Europe. If I was going to live outside a major city and commute in, a car would be below trains and buses on the list, if not lower.

[Jesslovers]

How much is a small appartment (only one bedroom+ kitchen+living room+bathroom+balcony) in Poland? here between 25 and 33 thousand dollars.

[Caregrasy]

I imagine it depends greatly on the location. Just in San Diego it could be any where between $2 million to $150,000 depending on upon where it is located (near the ocean or far, in a fashionable part of town or not, in a nice high rise with a view or out in the boonies miles from civilization, etc...).

[massons]

Originally posted by Barnabas
Around 480 dollars per month So $5760 per year. If we say $30,000 for the flat, that's 5.2 times annual income.

Average price of a flat in London £290,000.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...l/county37.stm

This may be a bit high for a 1-bed comparison, as it would include larger flats than one-bed, though most are 1-bed.

Let's say that average income now is £30,000

London ... average total income in 2002/03 at £34,000 for males and £21,500 for females
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1438


Allowing for some inflation £30,000 may still be a little high, given the disparity between male and female averages, so with both estimates a little high, the ratio comes out at 9.6 - getting on for twice as high as the Bolivian example.

[Sipewrio]

I fail to see any evidence or theory that supports the idea that this type of immigration aids per capita economic growth. Hmmm well the idea that it won't affect per capita growth depends on capable infrastructure. This is something you're far more qualified to talk about than I am so perhaps you could elucidate the issue as far as it's relevant here?

That issue aside, considering that almost every attractive woman in Northampton is either a) an acquaintance of mine (I can count at least 5 ) or b) Polish, I think that the British economy can, and indeed should, sponsor a bit of eye-candy .

[Blolover11]

Originally posted by siron


Leave the EU then, please. you are boring, you know?

[Dildos]

average monthly wages in Poland is about 2,4-2,5 thousand zlotys (currently they sell dolars for 2,8zl, and buy for 2,5; that is really low, it used to be almost five once). Yet in reality, 1500 zl is a good job here, and 2500 is a dream - there are some that earn milions and it's because of them that the average is high.

a sq meter of a house is on average 4 thousands in cities like Katowice, up to 8,5 thousands in Warsaw.

30.000 dolars would be 65.000 zl. there are no such cheap houses in Warsaw or elsewhere.

a 60sq m house would be 240.000 (87.000 dolars) in Katowice,
and 510.000 (185.500 dolars) in Warsaw, which would make
8 average yearly wages in Katowice, and 17 in Warsaw.
Again, a young person can not count for more than 1,5 thousand, which would make it 13,3 and 28

siron, you're... well, strange. I've never claimed it is the only reason, nor have I claimed I am against EU...

[Kimmitmelvirm]

Heresson

[Thomas12400]

Originally posted by Dauphin
Commute by car?

That's a good one.

Take the train.
No, he should buy a little motor-scooter.

[boizzones]

Originally posted by Barnabas
I know Spaniards have problems buying houses, because many wealthy and old englishmen, germans etc buy houses to retire there.

So it is very expensive for the common people. It's not just wealthy British who buy property in Spain. Ordinary, working class folk are retiring there after selling their houses in the insanely expensive British market and 'upgrading' to something grander in the sun.

There is a certain amount of musical chairs in Europe at the moment. Where are the Spanish going - Poland?