[9wQlZkIj]

tldr

[brulpcoersero]

None at all, completely observational.

[bapimporb]

The evidence actually points towards gay men having higher levels of testosterone. Up to and including the fact that science has shown us homos have much more in the manhood department *down there*.

But don't let me dash your pet theory. I'm only a simple biochemist and all.

[KasaBalak]

Define "manly"

[Smeaphvalialm]

I would suppose that a man with more testosterone is more interested in sex in general; and it requires a significant 'push' to overcome the societal pressure to be straight, thus only those with a strongish sex drive "come out" in any sense, even if perhaps some with weaker sex drives might, if society were wired differently, be gay.

Ultimately I would presume that the largest factors in gay/straight are environmental and not genetic; relationships in your childhood undoubtedly have a substantial effect on one's orientation, as does the culture you grow up in. There may well be some genetic basis, but environment surely plays a very substantial role.

[LarpBulaBus]

Originally posted by snoopy369
I would suppose that a man with more testosterone is more interested in sex in general; and it requires a significant 'push' to overcome the societal pressure to be straight, thus only those with a strongish sex drive "come out" in any sense, even if perhaps some with weaker sex drives might, if society were wired differently, be gay. Just stop, please.

(Specifically, this obsession with such a huge linear influence of testosterone levels.)

edit: damnit, I'm getting you two mixed up

[ChuttyAmult]

Kuci, if you were directing that post to me; why is it, throughout most of your posts in Apolyton, you just post your vague feelings instead of any thoughts or evidence?

[DextExexy]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Just stop, please.

(Specifically, this obsession with such a huge linear influence of testosterone levels.)

edit: damnit, I'm getting you two mixed up My plan is coming to fruition ...

Seriously though, I wasn't implying a linear influence, just that if there is any correlation, that's one possible reason for it.

[Cofeeman]

Originally posted by snoopy369
My plan is coming to fruition ...

Seriously though, I wasn't implying a linear influence, just that if there is any correlation, that's one possible reason for it. I know just enough biology to know that the body is infinitely more complex than it's being treated in this thread.

[staisacic]

Originally posted by Sn00py
snoopy, if you believe that society is a major factor in shaping whether you are gay or straight, then I guess the best way to prove that theory is to find a gay person in a tribe of very few people that are against male and male courtship.

I have not heard or read of any, but I have strong feelings that there are men who are born with attraction for men only; I profoundly disagree that society has much influence on what sex you prefer. Do you ask them when they come out of the womb?

If not, then environmental effects occur from day one. Who knows what might influence one's orientation? Maybe if you're entirely bottle-fed, you're more likely to be gay (no breast fixation). Maybe if you're allowed a pacifier longer, you're more likely to be gay (sucking fixation). Maybe if you have a close uncle as a child who is nicer to you than your parents, you're more likely to be gay.

Or any of those things could go the other way, too ... or none of them have any effect, which is much more likely since I'm just spouting them off at random. Point is, environmental/social effects are numerous and unmeasurable. I'm not talking about something as simple as social preference (though that has some effect undoubtedly, at least on the actual coming out), but about the complex interactions that make people into who we are.

[TyncTyncSah]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


I know just enough biology to know that the body is infinitely more complex than it's being treated in this thread. Certainly, although I have no doubt that there is some effect from testosterone - whether it be levels overall, levels at certain points in development, etc. - on sexual preference, it is more complex than simply "more testosterone = more gay".

Or not. Who knows? The body is incredibly complex, but it can be incredibly simple at times

[CFstantony]

Has anybody yet mentioned that Asher claims he has abnormally high levels of testosterone?

[TudareWQT]

Now, on to Asher. Have any of you noticed, that the pictures he has posted of guys he finds "cute" are very feminine type of men? The most recent example I can recall right now is the boy from the TV show "Heroes". This guy is gay, he does not behave girly, but his features are a bit soft and "sweet". Actually research shows that females also tend to like slightly 'feminine' male types, over brutish manly men.

Think of the huge success of Leonardo Di Caprio or Brad Pit.

[TritteTouff]

Free will is a legal fiction.

[CoiI8XIj]

This thread has abnormally high testosterone levels.

[Lenny Hensley]

I don't find effeminate men attractive at all.

I'm not keen on the Slender Glenda Pitt/Di Caprio types either.

[adactthrd]

Datajack Franit is a chubby chaser. Have you already applied to the bear community?

[Xutrsavf]

Originally posted by Sn00py
I have this theory that whether we are male or female, we all have varying levels of testosterone and estrogen.
[...] I don't know what is beeing taught in bio class today, and my knowledge is already 30 years old.

But back then, what they told us is that being a boy or a girl was not because of testosterone or estrogen, but because of those X and Y chromosomes.

Normally, a XX eggs/fetus develops female plumbering for the child and XY male plumbering. Sometimes however, for unknown reasons (I guess they called it genetical disorder back then) although, being XX, a egg evolves with all the male plumbering.
At birth, everybody would call a child with a penis 'a boy', but in fact the whole sexual program (stored in the genes, not in the penis) would be female.

Back in those times they said they found some of those girls in boy's body or boys in girl's body (but no lesbian in ugly biker's body I'm afraid ). A genetic analysis can easily say if you are in fact XX or XY. Oops, that boy is XX!!.
But these cases of XX boys and XY girls were very, very rare (I guess today, they are spotted from even before birth).

They also told us, testosterone or estrogen were responsible for the the plumbering 'upgrade' at puberty (breast, hips for girls, penis extension, muscles for boys, hairs for everyone).
The releases of estrogen or testosterone were in these XX and XY, sexual programs. A defficiency in those programs - or, having XX program for boys or XY for girls - could cause unwanted effects (boys with no muscle, girls with no breast).

At NO point are (or should I say were?) testosterone or estrogen responsible for the sexual orientation! They are only responsible for the physical 'upgrade' at puberty!

The sexual orientation is something completely different. Some will argue that it's all in the - XX/XY - genes, and that homosexuallity is then a genetic disorder (XY program did not work correctly, there's a bug), other will say it's cultural, or educational, or freewill. Whatever, I do not really care.
Whatever, so long, I haven't found any convincing argument for any of those theories: neither the genetic one, nor the cultural one, not even the frewill one.

But if there is something that I am quite sure of, it is that it is not related of (read: is/might be a consequence of) the production of testosterone or estrogen.

Or should I update my 30 yo bio knowledge?

[anconueys]

So I figured, bi but prefers men.

[Ocqljudq]

Originally posted by Starchild
The evidence actually points towards gay men having higher levels of testosterone. Up to and including the fact that science has shown us homos have much more in the manhood department *down there*.

But don't let me dash your pet theory. I'm only a simple biochemist and all. Yep. I have very high levels of testosterone, so much so that I'm on some medication to reduce it for various reasons.