[tevyrefficy]

I would not be so quick to interpret God's intentions in this. Perhaps He desires your work with many children in the parish that you could not invest so heavily in, if you had your own children.

Ha ha ha you do not know me. Also you are too good to gather by my posts that I have so little patience. I do not like teaching. I studied pedagogic in high school and taught after high school one semester (plus the practicum) and gave up after that. Can't teach. After college again I escaped an opportunity to teach. And after my MA too. No one knows my education in my parish since I hide it and do not want to teach. It is great responsibility and I can't be a teacher. When I was one I couldn't fail any student (second graders) although several had many deficiencies from the first grade. How could I have failed them when they would walk for hours to come to school and in the midst of tempests and thunderstorms they were coming to class without shoes? And when they were working day and night although second graders to help their parents to win their daily bread. Daily I would go home and for half hour I would go in bed and stay in complete silence since I could not bear to see their suffering. I tried to help them to progress with many ways, but it was not easy. I gave up since that responsibility was not for me. It has to do with people's lives and futures, and I am not so strong to have such things in my hands.

PS Last night when I was looking for a thread I saw another homeschooling thread here on monachos. Have you seen it?

[irresseni]

If I may echo Fr. Dcn. Matthew, some of these threads of late have devolved to extended personal conversations that might be better carried on as PMs. If your post is addressed to a specific individual, you might want to ask yourself if it adds value to the thread at large or if it might be more appropriate as private correspondence between two individuals.

Herman the sub-moderator

[disappointment2]

My wife and I are planning on homeschooling our kids (right now a 2 year old and 4 month old) unless we get another Orthodox school going where we live. Our parish has quite a few little ones under the age of 5, and two families already homeschooling.

My wife is the child of two public school teachers, and she definitely wants to homeschool. She teaches music lessons in schools and is always coming home with reasons for homeschooling based on what she sees in classes and the hallways.

I work as a college librarian, and my reason for homeschooling, besides adding the Orthodox material, is to give my children the Classical education that I didn't get from public school. I help students every day that have no idea what their professors are talking about when it comes to classics, literature, philosophy, religion, etc., because, at least here in Texas, everything in public schools is designed to get students to pass the standardized tests.

We have two Orthodox schools in our area, but not really close enough for us. The K-5 school is about 35 minutes away, and the 6-12 Classical Orthodox school is about an hour and a half drive, although it's only really only 35 miles.

We have a closer Classical Christian school that is actually a cross between a private school and homeschooling, where the children stay home for 2 or 3 days with their parents and go to school the other days. It is growing quickly and has 3 campuses in the area, but it's a little expensive right now.

Sbdn. Anthony

[slarceSelia]

I work as a college librarian, and my reason for homeschooling, besides adding the Orthodox material, is to give my children the Classical education that I didn't get from public school. I help students every day that have no idea what their professors are talking about when it comes to classics, literature, philosophy, religion, etc., because, at least here in Texas, everything in public schools is designed to get students to pass the standardized tests.

This is similar to concerns that are being expressed by a number of Orthodox clergy and which are also being considered by the Moscow Patriarchy in considering a new Slavonic translation of the service books. The concern is not so much about ignorance of references to classical literature in students, but rather ignorance of the people in the Church of basic scriptural events which are alluded to frequently in the service material (just pay attention to the multitude of allusions to scriptural people and events - some which might even be considered "obscure" - that you will hear in the canon of St Andrew of Crete during the first week of Lent.) The purpose is not to eliminate these allusions which are not understood by most people, but rather to increase the emphasis of religious education to teach these things more completely.

A more classically oriented education is the part of the mandate of St John's Orthodox Academy in San Francisco.

Fr David Moser

[Acalsenunse]

Dear Anna, you wrote:

It would be interesting to hear more considering the unique perspective you have. Are there many homeschoolers in England?

Firstly, I would just note that my experience is just that (rather than anything scientifically analysed); and covers a bit of the USA as well as here in the UK.

Generally speaking (and, almost by definition, this discussion is centred in generalisations), I find that home-schooled children are more mature in their ability to engage with questions, probe the depth of intellectual and spiritual ideas, etc. This is clearly the result of having had attention paid to developing their own skills in these areas, as well as conscientious practice of them; whereas children in public/private schools are often less mature in their development of these skills. I also regularly note a greater matury amongst home-schooled children in terms of outward social behaviours -- politeness, manners, proper speech, ability to sustain polite discussion, etc.

However, this is often counterbalanced by (and again, here speaking in vast generalisations) a tendency in home-schooled children to have far less developed interpersonal social skills than children who have gone through traditional schooling routes. By this I mean an ability to interact with peers in the wide gamut of social scenarios; dealing with interpersonal/social problems in environments where little immediate support is available; adaptability to quickly-changing social and intellectual environments, etc. So there is often quite a noticeable dichotomy in such young people: one one level, having far more mature outward social graces and skills, while on another having far less mature social skills at an inward, less stylised or formal level.

This is, of course, not in the realm of 'it must necessarily be so'; but it is certainly the case in the vast majority of instances I see. This is often because home-schooling parents do not make as much as they could or ought of the social interactivity available to a home-schooling environment -- interacting with other families, other children, play groups, social activities, etc. But there is also something true about the fact that the home environment of home schooling does remove a certain degree of the 'otherness' that helps develop certain social skills in children and young people. At the same time, it also provides contexts of 'closeness' that are harder to find in traditional schooling environments; so it is give and take, as ever.

I hope I've managed to convey these few thoughts fairly. I see many well balanced, mature home-schooled children, as well as many well balanced, mature children that have been in public/private schools; similarly, I see many immature, poorly developed children that come from both environments. I hesitate to say one is 'better' than the other in any absolute sense. My own experience, overall, is that I have seen more home-schooled children that I feel have been hindered by the experience, than I have seen home-schooled children that I feel have benefitted from it. But once again, this is very much a personal, case-by-case matter.

In terms of an Orthodox approach, I believe the key issue is parental involvement. Whether one's children are schooled at home or in a traditional school environment, parents must play an active role in the education of their children. Parents bear the responsibility before God for the right education of their children; this is part of the special blessing and responsibility of the family. Too often, parents stand essentially idlely by, leaving things to others in this area. Home schooling is one way of being very involved; and if it is done in a spirit of prayer and wisdom, can be exceedingly good. But so can the active engagement of parents in the schooling of their children at public schools, at private schools, etc.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[gariharrr]

While I agree with the entire post of Fr. Matthew, this part of his post is very important to remember (at least for me).

In terms of an Orthodox approach, I believe the key issue is parental involvement. Whether one's children are schooled at home or in a traditional school environment, parents must play an active role in the education of their children. Parents bear the responsibility before God for the right education of their children; this is part of the special blessing and responsibility of the family. Too often, parents stand essentially idlely by, leaving things to others in this area. Home schooling is one way of being very involved; and if it is done in a spirit of prayer and wisdom, can be exceedingly good. But so can the active engagement of parents in the schooling of their children at public schools, at private schools, etc.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[tsaaapla]

I think this is outside the realm of the Orthodox praxis section of the board, so I posted it here more generically.

My wife home schools our 6 year old son (and did our elder son before that) and is committed to doing this for some time. However, we don't live in proximity (there are many Orthodox in Los Angeles, but that's an hour a way, two with traffic) to many other Orthodox to share this with.

I'd like to be able to help her find Orthodox home schooling resources, communities, blogs, or friends online. I'm pretty good at my Google-fu, but I've come up dry. Home schooling and Protestants seem synonymous. I've found the odd RCC and a couple of Uniates, but only one Orthodox mom home schooling (and she really struggles with it, on and off).

I was wondering if anyone one Monachos might have some resources I don't, even internationally.

There is an Orthodox Home School group on Yahoo that is pretty active.

[TimoDassss]

There are quite a few Orthodox homeschooling mamas over at The Well Trained Mind forum. They even have a social group

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/

[AdvertisingPo]

As a committed home schooler, allow me to agree with your son's assessment and actually "grind an axe" over this. I do not like that many of my fellow home schoolers use home schooling as a way to isolate their child. A home schooled high schooler has time to invest in the real world and ought to avoid adolescence (in the modern sense of the word) entirely.

Keeping children cloistered from naughty words and from worldly engagement is well... I'd like to go so far as to say immoral, but that's probably one hysterionic too far. A high school home schooled child should be perfectly competent to arrange their own schedule each day. And should be even MORE preparred for unstructured environments.

What I think would be particularly helpful would be extended time away from parents, either at the local jr college taking classes, or volunteering at the local food pantry, or "interning" with a local plumber. Some where that they have to deal with those who's choices in life are very different from their own and that of their parents.

My own experience in college was that very few students (home schooled or not, religious or not) were preparred to deal with the chaos of dorm life. But I don't think high school provides any preparation for that. Perhaps an extended summer camp stay might be the only possible pre-college exposure.

And yet, Christ says:

“The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!"

Sadly, college dorms now resemble brothels -- truly they are often times "dens of iniquity." If home schooled children still have some shred of innocence when the reach college, I think it is an indication that their parents have done a good job. Sure, a child might be better able to handle particular sins if he or she has committed them before, but having sinned is not a good way to prepare for life.

[Tapupah]

And yet, Christ says:

“The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!"

Sadly, college dorms now resemble brothels -- truly they are often times "dens of iniquity." If home schooled children still have some shred of innocence when the reach college, I think it is an indication that their parents have done a good job. Sure, a child might be better able to handle particular sins if he or she has committed them before, but having sinned is not a good way to prepare for life.

What you say is true - but not having committed a sin does not indicate innocence.

A child is never (or shouldn't be) introduced to a sin, or deliberately allowed to sin, in order to learn from it. That is not a good way to prepare for life.

I'm an excellent example of a lousy parent. There is much I've failed to teach my kids. My own lack of discipline is a major hurdle, which I fail to conquer every day. I cannot order my kids to clean their rooms, because I don't know how to do it myself. I mean - I know how to do it, but I don't know how to keep it that way. That's just one thing. There are many things that I'm not good at.

But there's one thing that's different about my relationship with my kids, and my relationship with my parents. There is brutally honest communication. I ask them to forgive me, and if they've failed to notice how I've sinned, I point it out to them. Sometimes, they actually ask for forgiveness too! We talk about everything. Things that I'd stopped talking to my parents about, when I was about six or so. Hopefully, their willingness to still trust me enough to talk to me, may keep them from falling as far as I did.

We live in a neighborhood full of broken families. The kids play together, go to school together... and they tell each other things. My kids, tell me what they've heard from their friends. I won't go into details. I might scandalize someone. But when they tell me these things, it gives me a chance to talk to them about life without God and life with God. Life without God is pretty messy, and it hurts a lot. Life with God is difficult, but it doesn't cause so much damage, and hopefully, we will even let Him heal us.

Will it work? Ask me in another 20 years. They are certainly not innocent. Are they full of darkness??? I don't know. Maybe if they start thinking that the sinfulness around us and in us, is a good way of life, that the mess and the pain is easier to carry than the weight of the cross... I don't know. Is it easier for innocent homeschooled kids to pick up their crosses? Is it possible to be good at picking up your cross, and not be innocent? Again, I don't know.

Sometimes I feel like I'm blind, because there's so much that I don't know, in spite of the fact that I've sinned much and should be able to handle sinfulness. All I can do, is pray for their protection and ask the Holy Mother of God to be a mother to them, as if they were orphans, because, I'm not doing them any good.

In Christ,
mary.

[Jack ali]

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