Hiding icons?
 

A friend of mine lives in a rather small apartment and he has a beautiful mural size Icon (covers an entire wall) of the Holy Apostles receiving Holy Communion from Jesus Christ. He was concerned prior to a first date with a certain woman because he was not sure if she was a Christian (let alone Orthodox). An Orthodox priest told him to cover the Icon with a large sheet because it might be too much for her to digest.

I must admit, I was somewhat disturbed at this advice.

Any thoughts on this?

My first thought (coming from a bear of little brain) is not to second guess the advice given someone by their confessor. There may be facts or circumstances we are not aware of. There many ways of "coming on too strong". Humility has many faces. The stories of the saints are filled with examples of spiritual advice that sounded "wrong" at first hearing, but turned out wiser in the end when more information was made apparent.

Herman the Pooh

Yes. And that is why I kept my mouth shut. I am just a wretched worm and I know nothing.

God bless.

That's so true. But also on a practical level You have to admit that a mural size icon is very unusual and uncommon,and quite different from even a wall filled with icons. It might suggest the impression of fanaticism to even the most pious Christian who doesn't know him well. I wouldn't consider that a renunciation of faith even if he hadn't spoken with a confessor. (Though that was certainly wise of him.)

Some of our most precious, sacred things are also are private things, or at least should not be public. We wear clothes. We keep our prayer ropes in our pocket. We wear our crosses under our shirts. This is a good thing.

Guess I'm confused. Shouldn't one at least know something of the beliefs of a person before dating them? I refused even courtship till I at least knew that the other person was a Christian...that person became my husband.

Personally, all my dates were for the sake of courtship. Maybe that's why I had so few dates. http://www.monachos.net/forum/images/smilies/smile.png

He he he I like that Cassiane. http://www.monachos.net/forum/images/smilies/smile.png When I met my husband and we started dating, (although he was baptized RC) he was having problem with the entire idea of reconciling God's existence and the existence of suffering. So, since I loved him very much and of course loved God, I wanted him to start believing again etc. We started discussing the matter for hours and hours. When I saw that he needed time to start changing, but might be in danger of heading towards atheism too, I told him: "I love you crazily, but do not make me choose between you and God. Because trust me, God will win. If you do not beleive in Him, I will go." I do not give many ultimatums, but thank God for that one and the way He worked through my husband's wonderful soul. And guess who had the strongest faith this past August-September when we lost our baby, Nicholas. My faith shook and I almost fell away from believing since I doubted God's love and existence when I lost my son. But my husband kept me in faith and in Orthodoxy - and thank God for that!

I also would have had my cross, or icon/s if some prospect for marriage would come to visit my home. A huge icon can be overwhelming (although not to us) but religious things dispersed here and there would just show who I am (Orthodox) and there is no reason to appear something we are not. This is the best selective process and esp. if done from the very beginning.

Having icons in your living area doesn't do much for sexual attraction. If you were inviting a person to your appartment for the sake of a kiss and some romance then having Christ stare at you makes you feel guilty. Its like taking someone to a date at the church and caressing them inside, its disrespectfull. I think placement of icons should be in a room dedicated for the purpose of prayer. Most Orthodox families have an iconostasio a dedicated holding place for icons, lamps and incense.

I truly believe we should not be hiding our icons. It's like hiding our faith. Wouldn't it be more honest to let this person see the real you? Why should I cover the icon Jesus? If they truly like you, they would respect and understand.

Angela

I do not wish to sound judgemental, but, to me, a wall-sized icon, even one the size of a small wall in a small room, speaks to me not of reverence, but of ostentation, unless the person is simply "minding" the icon temporarily while a suitable "home" is found for it, such as a church.

Ephestion, welcome to the forum. You wrote:

Having icons in your living area doesn't do much for sexual attraction. If you were inviting a person to your appartment for the sake of a kiss and some romance then having Christ stare at you makes you feel guilty. Its like taking someone to a date at the church and caressing them inside, its disrespectfull. I think placement of icons should be in a room dedicated for the purpose of prayer. Most Orthodox families have an iconostasio a dedicated holding place for icons, lamps and incense. There is a beautiful custom among Orthodox of Slavic ancestry (Russian, Ukrainian, Belorussian, etc) of hanging an icon in the easternmost corner of every main room in the house, or, if this is not feasible, in the corner most likely to be seen when entering the room.

Slavs also have the custom of "wedding icons". The couple obtains a matched pair of icons, one of Christ, one of the Mother of God, some time before their wedding day. These icons are blessed in church, then each icon is taken home: the Christ icon by the future groom, the Mother of God icon by the future bride. On the day of the wedding, before they each leave the house to go to the church, the bride and groom are blessed with the respective icon by their parent(s). The icons are brought to the church, and are placed on an icon stand in a prominent position for the duration of the wedding ceremony. At the end of the service, after the customary "words of wisdom" from the priest, he blesses the couple with the icons, which the couple then takes to their home. Almost without exception, the wedding icons are hung in the bedroom, traditionally in a corner at a 90 degree angle to each other. Personally, I feel that for a newlywed couple to bring home a pair of wedding icons is more emblematic and meaningful than the Greek custom of bringing home one's stefana, which, sadly, often end up being tucked away in a box somewhere, never to see the light of day again.

You might also find this thread useful:

http://www.monachos.net/forum/showthread.php?p=60832

Okay, well, I may be the odd person out then, but I don't believe a person should be bringing home someone for the purpose of sexual attraction and romance on the first date. Want a kiss, give it to her on her doorstep when you take her home. Sorry, was raised a Puritanical American with a sense of propriety...and covering up something that one considers sacred, so that one could feel less guilt of being potentially improper?

Yes, Angela. That is why I was somewhat distrubed when I first heard the advice. My wife and I have a good number of Icons in every room in our home. When we have guests who have never been to our home before, we get different reactions. some people are completely comfortable and comment on the beauty of the Icons. Others seem very uncomfortable and agitated (although I understand that is not necessarily due to the Icons). Regardless, I would not cover or remove my Icons for any reason. But I understand that each individual may react differently.

Nevertheless, I do not want to judge someone's motives.

I'm with you on the dating question, Etsi, and I don't think you need to apologize for common sense. First things first: (1) Don't date total strangers, (2) Find out what world they live in BEFORE you begin dating them, (3) don't date non-Christians unless you already have good reason to believe that they are open to conversion, and (4) don't take someone home or go home with someone on a first date — for the physical and spiritual safety of all involved.

In Christ, Dn. Patrick

Not at all odd, Etsi!! There's no need to take anyone home, if you're not already married to them. Unless you're living with your parents, and are taking them home to introduce them to your parents.

I love my icons. I do not parade them in front of my non-orthodox family and friends. That is like desecrating them. However, I do not keep them hidden in my own home. This is who I am now. It does makes my family uncomfortable, but I do my best to help them ignore my icons - I don't talk about my icons unless they ask.

in Christ,
mary