[GalasaKoll]

I (and several of my friends) work in an industry where year-end bonus is the largest component

of your pay. Now in the early stages of your career in this industry, bonuses and increases in pay are often fairly

predictable and the announcement rarely comes as a big surprise. And the pay in the early years is small when

considered in relation to what you will be making a handful of years later.

Yet it became a joke amongst us

as to how utterly predictably success with women for us would spike around bonus season (different dates for each of

us) and then fall off over the coming weeks. Nobody particularly felt they were behaving differently yet women

seemed to have a different perception.

I think this must have to do with a spike in testosterone and

serotonin levels, similar to that observed in supporters of the winning team after sports matches.

In primate

males you tend to see an evolution in serotonin+testosterone levels after each challenge for dominance with another

male. And give a low-ranking monkey some Prozac to boost serotonin levels, introduce him into a new troupe and his

status becomes substantially higher (even though that monkey basically has the same immune status and physical

capacity to win a fight).

That makes me inclined to think that - although clearly tounge and belgareth are

right about substance winning out over a superficial veneer in the end - one shouldn't neglect the value of

psyching oneself up (and of avoiding any potentially negative catalyst to confidence) before social

events.

I'm generally not a big fan of the author of the piece that follows, but in this case I think he is

right on the money.

http://www.bristollair.com/outergame...tobeagoodwing/

Hope if

controversial this is at least controversial in an interesting way. Here are another couple of links to stuff on

test, serotonin, aggression and

dominance...

http://salmon.psy.plym.ac.uk/year2/a...ggression.html
http://hackvan.

com/p...-dominance.txt

[Marinausa]

Psyching yourself up isn't about

creating a "false bravado" its more a matter of getting your body and mind in the righy physical and mental state

before entering a physically, mentally, or emotionally strenuous situation. The going theory is that your body has

different physical and mental states (different levels of testosterone, serotonin, endorphins etc etc etc), which

are activated under certain conditions. Acts like a runner walking the track before a race, a basketball player

visualizing a free-throw shot, a boxer shadow boxing before a match, aren't a tool for creating a false sense of

confidence, they are merely a means to activating the right physical and mental state. It's true that psyching

oneself up won't make the runner win the race, basketball player make the shot, or the boxer win the match, but

thats beside the point, and outside the context of the original topic. It's again, merely a method of putting

yourself in the right mental and physical state.

David D. mentions similar practices in the dating world. He

mentions practicing different mental states by remembering times when you felt confident, and putting yourself back

into that state of mind. That way the confidence you're projecting is confidence you're feeling of your own

merit, and not some artificial tool to fool women into thinking you really are confident. Again its a matter of

activating the right physical and mental states that are appropriate to the situation.

[optormtix]

Psyching yourself up

isn't about creating a "false bravado" its more a matter of getting your body and mind in the righy physical and

mental state before entering a physically, mentally, or emotionally strenuous situation. The going theory is that

your body has different physical and mental states (different levels of testosterone, serotonin, endorphins etc etc

etc), which are activated under certain conditions. Acts like a runner walking the track before a race, a

basketball player visualizing a free-throw shot, a boxer shadow boxing before a match, aren't a tool for creating a

false sense of confidence, they are merely a means to activating the right physical and mental state. It's true

that psyching oneself up won't make the runner win the race, basketball player make the shot, or the boxer win the

match, but thats beside the point, and outside the context of the original topic. It's again, merely a method of

putting yourself in the right mental and physical state.

David D. mentions similar practices in the dating

world. He mentions practicing different mental states by remembering times when you felt confident, and putting

yourself back into that state of mind. That way the confidence you're projecting is confidence you're feeling of

your own merit, and not some artificial tool to fool women into thinking you really are confident. Again its a

matter of activating the right physical and mental states that are appropriate to the

situation.

Yes...Yes that's exactly my point.
Everyone sends a conscious and unconscious

signal to others that may affect how you’re perceived in the outside world no withstanding other stereotypical

attitudes and learned behavior.


DCW

[Marinausa]

Yes...Yes that's

exactly my point.
Everyone sends a conscious and unconscious signal to others that may affect how you’re perceived

in the outside world no withstanding other stereotypical attitudes and learned behavior.


DCW

Yep.

Unfortunately, every thread started on this forum eventually breaks down to "pheromones/clothes/mental tricks/etc

alone won't do it for you if you lack ____", which is a shame because this is a topic that I'd really like to see

discussed further.

Anyway.... I think a lot of people discount the power of the cognitive mind and human

imagination to affect different aspects of our physical being. Even artificially induced feelings of confidence,

well-being, or even sadness and pain can have a dramatic impact on our bodies physically, and could, hypothetically,

alter our pheromone productions. A horror flick, for instance, can create an artificial sense of fear that causes

spikes in andrenaline. The sense of fear is entirely imaginary, and people consciously know that there's no real

physical danger, however the mental and physical body of a person is altered substancially enough to activate a

"fight or flight" type respnse.

If such responses can be created artificially, then I see no reason why we

couldn't artificially manipulate our own pheromone levels.

[Kotyara]

Pheroquirk said something that

could be continued. He describes a group of people who seem to be showing on the outside what they feel on the

inside and it affecting their results. I can't argue whether it is just the attitide they display or if it is an

increase in pheromone production or some combination but you can see that their effect on others is affected by what

is happening inside their heads. OK, are they thinking "I've got the money to spend right now and can afford to

persue these women" Or are they just reflecting an optimistic outlook that they have because their bank account just

got bigger?

Realistically, in a bar hitting on some woman trying to get laid it doesn't really matter what's

going on in their head so long as they get the results they are after, right? I don't have a problem with that so

long as both parties are looking for the same thing. It's honest, upfront, healthy leachery and is fine. If a state

of mind helps you accomplish that and you can manpulate your state of mine through a pep talk, great.

I am

arguing, and I think Tounge is too, that it is only good in the short term. Next week you are going to need to do it

again with somebody else. That's fine too if that's what you are looking for. But...in the long term, you have to

do more to accomplish anything lasting. That's all we are saying.

Because of my interest in such things I'd

like to see more discussion on the subject of whether you can really control you body well enough to control your

pheromone signature. I doubt most of us would be willing to practice the level of discipline needed to accomplish

that but learning about it could be interesting.

[oranowdenda]

Too many of you guys are confusing

self-visualization, with real confidence. I'm sure Tiger Woods sees himself making every putt and hitting every

shot perfect before he does it. But he still misses. He gets his supreme confidence from the fact that he has won

big tournaments. He has accomplished. His confidence builds on that. You are are comparing apples and oranges when

you look at it.

But in pertaining to the original topic, I surmise that you could probably think your way to a

better pheromone signature. But, then of course you could think your way free of cancer or heart disease too. Same

priciples would apply, no?

[Tryphadz]

Personally, the way I see it is

like this.

Guy 1 comes in, he's had a bad day. For whatever reason he's gotten some crappy news and he's in a

bad mood. When he gets to work, everyone can see it. His body language, facial expressions, everything is

different.

Guy 2 is totally the opposite. Good day, good news, excited, happy, confident, etc. Even alittle bit

cocky and is throwing around some witty, playful banter.

It's all about what you project. Now someone mentioned

earlier the type of job they have, and it being incredibly predictable and how women flocked to them as they made

their yearly bonuses and it tapered off later.

You don't really pay attention to that stuff, but i'm willing

to bet their body language changed alot. And so how they projected themselves changed entirely.

I could see that

with your guys yearly bonuses coming, success with women spiking, then as time went on the excitement, extra

confidence, or whatever died down.

I can't say thats what happened, but i'm willing to bet in your average

situation thats the typical of things. And most people don't realize what they're doing with their body/voice

changes alot.

They're focusing on other people/their environment. Not whats inside or what they're

subconciously doing.

Body language and voice tone are by far the most effective ways and the majority of how

humans communicate.

It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

With different, more exilerating emotions

going through your body, the change in mental state...I'm sure it could make a pheremone increase. I don't know if

it compares to a few dabs or drops of synthetics but i'm sure it's there and helps alittle.

But i'd say in

general if you can work on your mental state and thoughts and being secure with them and yourself, and realizing

from time to time feeling bad or insecure about something really stupid is not a good thing. And getting intot he

habbit of speaking with a deeper voice tone and taking a more dominant/leader like role in social situations along

with projecting confidence/dominance through your body language it's going to help alot.

As for mones, i'd say

they can be a big help if your not coming from a place where your inner child is almost always in fetal position. A

few dabs of this and that and alittle something under your nose can "help" change your mental state and "help" you

project something more.

Note I emphasized "help". If anything they're a nice little synthetic supplement.



Also as a side note, I do believe people have some limited power over their bodies people don't normally use.

Power of suggestion is powerful. It's not much different from hypnosis imo.

I read about some guy that

suggested to himself every night when his wife/gf was about to have a baby, or shortly thereafter, that he would and

could produce milk. This was the guy suggesting this to himself. And sure enough he swelled up on 1 of the 2 sides,

and found out men indeed could produce milk and nurse kids.

I also remembered some side note in the article of

some guys embarassingly and unwantingly producing milk to some extent. So aparently men, or atleast some, are

biologically able to produce milk. And that the male nipple is fully functional and able to release it.

To me

that just goes to power of suggestion and being able to effect more than what we realize.

Ryan

[brandiweb]

watching Tiger over the years I've learned to see the minimal cues when's he's in reasonably deep

trance and on his game versus when he's not in trance and his game sucks. You can actually see ahead of time from

the expression on his face when he's going to miss a putt, you can feel it, like he's choosing ahead of time for

some unconscious reason to miss the putt, fight with his girlfriend or something. A lot of people have unconscious

resistances to goals they consciously believe they desire, some of these are called "hypnotic curses" by one of the

major practitioners in the field, like maybe a guy has an unconscious sexual competition with his father for the

attentions of women in general, and everytime as a kid he felt/expressed a natural desire for a beautiful woman and

his dad was around his dad became angry or made sarcastic remarks, then the kid internalizes this (these messages

are called "introjects", or as another psychologist calls it "being possesed by aliens") and every time he is turned

on by a beautiful babe he starts to crumple inside feeling the emotional residue of withering criticism. The sad

truth is many people are negatively programmed to some extent by dysfunctional family dynamics, maybe not massively,

but their A game may be undercut by negative early energy. I had a lot of bad programming from unhealthy religious

figures, ministers who held themselves out as having a hotline to God, these dudes were wretchedly fucked up most

definitely on a sexual level, although they never molested anyone to my knowledge they seemd to have transformed

their massive sexual frustrations into non-stop head fucking.. took years of hard work to pry that garbage out of my

head... the thing about the unconscious is it IS unconscious, you have no idea how powerfully it runs you, shapes

your interactions, draws people and energies to you and repels other people...

[Marinausa]

I think you guys are reading too

much into it. It isn't a matter how confident you are as a person at all, I reiterate that its merely a matter of

manipulating your cognitive/physical states, which I'm sure most people do even unconsiously. It isn't

necessarily something as complicated as giving yourself a pep talk....it can be something as simple as closing your

eyes for two seconds to put things in perspective....any act that triggers a shift in your hormone brain/chemical

levels. Personally, I have a habit of smacking a fist into an open palm. There's ton's of documentation on

mental/physical states if you're interested in reading up on it. I was honestly first exposed to it in an

Industiral-Organizational Psychology course.

[Kotyara]

Let's drop the personal

remarks and insults so I don't have to close this thread.

Thanks

Belgareth

[Tryphadz]

People do it all the time. They

think of something else and change their state of mind or they attach some kind of mental state or association to an

action or thought.

But like what I said about the article I read among other things about the guy being able to

produce milk, and got there by willfully suggesting it to himself every night like he was telling his unconcious to

do it for him and then it eventually and obviously happening.

I guess thinking about something like that would

be more effective. Whereas i'd figure a thought or state of mind or emotional feeling would only be effective

toward that for so long.

But suggesting it to your unconcious...

I couldn't tell ya for sure though. I'm

theorizing. I could be wrong, or it could just be a different way.

Have you guys read "Think and grow rich" by

Napoleon Hill?

He has a number of steps for success. Getting to the point where you feel BURNING DESIRE and you

HAVE to achieve it, to writing down goals and expressing on paper what you'll contribute to it's end, with a very

clear and desicive view on what it is you want among a number of other things. But one of the things you do is read

and suggest to yourself that you'll achieve it, your committed, and you basically enter into a contract with

yourself to attain it. And you read things of this nature to yourself every night and persue it until your brain and

thoughts express themself in an outward physical action.

It touches base on ALOT of things, and is probably one

of the best self improvement books i've read.

And it's basically how I see you can suggest to yourself to do

these things. Suggesting to your unconcious what you want among other techniques or branching out more from that.



If you guys have some kind of p2p software you can probably find the ebook on there. It might make alittle more

sense and put things into perspective if you've glanced over it. But otherwise it's a pretty good book if any of

you are into self improvement and reading at all.

[Kotyara]

No offense intended but I'm

more than a little sceptical about a male lactating. Was it documented by medical professionals? I'm happy to be

proven wrong but it would take some pretty serious proof before I'd accept it.

For the rest of it, without

motivation, nothing is possible. You fail before you ever begin if you don't believe you can do something and have

the desire to do it. If you have the right motivation you can accomplish impressive feats.

[immoceefe]

There is a growing body of

evidence that indicates state of mind has a profound influence on not only ones own health and well being,but the

health and well being of those closest to us.People who pray,for example have a considerably faster recovery rate

than people who dont pray when faced with major illness or surgery.More over,when people pray FOR those who are

facing a major illness there is a marked improvement in recovery times as well,weather they know they are being

prayed for or not.Many who practice eastern techniques like yoga and so forth have developed the ability to alter

their bodys function in many rather startling ways through meditation.As for men being able to lactate...yes,men can

lactate and produce milk.It has been documented and any man can do it.Im not sure if its the same quality as mothers

milk but I dont see why it wouldnt be with the exception of tasting alot like beer Im still working on

visualizing myself a bigger weener (if I make progress with that I will let you all know )

The concept

of visualization being a part of acheving results has been a foundation of martial arts for a bazillion

years.Athletes have practiced it for ever and even actors and actresses use visualization techniques befor a

performance.Pilots in aerobatic competitions use it,corperate execs use it befor a presentation.Some of these

examples are very shallow,but they make baisicly the same point.And its not a big stretch of the imagination to

think that proper visualization techniques will have an impact on people you make contact with on a day to day

basis.

But belgareth makes a very valid point.At some point in all this visualization some kind of fundamental

change needs to occur to cement in your being whatever it is you are trying to project through attitude.Acting will

only cary you so far,after that you need to have something to fall back on.A fundamental change in spirit is

required to be able to pay more than lip service to being "the man every woman wants." Anyone can present themselves

temporarily as a great person with a wonderful personality...hell...I do it all the time.I still have my whole

family fooled

[Kotyara]

I'm questioning the particular

case mentioned above but would be interested in anything on male lactation. My understanding is that the glands in a

male are vistigal and non-functioning since the shift in the zygot that switches it to male from female. Sorry,

don't remember the correct terminology.

[Marinausa]

But belgareth

makes a very valid point.At some point in all this visualization some kind of fundamental change needs to occur to

cement in your being whatever it is you are trying to project through attitude.Acting will only cary you so

far,after that you need to have something to fall back on.A fundamental change in spirit is required to be able to

pay more than lip service to being "the man every woman wants." Anyone can present themselves temporarily as a great

person with a wonderful personality...hell...I do it all the time.I still have my whole family

fooled

Definately true. The eventual ends to changing ones mindset is doing so until the state

that you emulate becomes a natural, programmed response....kind of like self-induced conditioning.

Experience

may be the source of one's confidence in different circumstances, however for those who lack that experience

(especially the younger members), these kinds little mind tricks can at least help get someone on their way. So in

that sense, 'psyching yourself up' from time to time isn't necessarily a short-term fix; it can and should be a

method of facilitating long-term development.

[brandiweb]

and auditorizes, and sometimes creates feelings, smells, and other subtle sensations...

most of this is barely perceptible, right on the fringe of consciousness... this is one of the possible meanings of

Karma, the infite set of tape loops that your mind plays that creates "you"... most people do not have clear access

to this material, it's like a machine humming in the background that is perpetually re-creating your sense of self

identity... some go to psychologists who help them gain access to this internal theater and change the reels, switch

the films.... so life patterns don't have to constantly repeat... Zen masters and Yogis and prayerful people to

some extent have gained closer access to, and control over this limbic mind background music. The NLP people tried

to do it by direct manipulations of image processes and so on, but they never got much access to what was already

playing in there. They came close when they explored the structure of beliefs... like, what is a belief, anyway ?

What are your most deeply held beliefs about yourself ? How did you get them ? Most importantly, HOW does your brain

represent those beliefs to itself with such convincing power that you are compelled to act on them ? Strange, no ?

You are watching/listening to movies in your head, even as you read this, that have such a total grip on your sense

of reality, that every person who wrote their opinions in this thread was powerfully COMPELLED to do so in the way

they did. In that sense, the guy who has great luck with women is compelled to, and the guy who has no luck is also

compelled to... some people are always vulnerable to illness, some people seem to mount a powerful psychic defense

against illness, it has a lot to do with how you create MEANING... if a girl rejects you and your brain takes that

to mean you are a loathsome toad you will spend a massive amount of time insuring that you won't get rejected, if

rejection doesn't carry much meaning load, then you won't be tailoring your behavior around rejection issues...

[immoceefe]

I mean it bel...guys can do

that.The question is a hormonal change as well.Im not sure how that works but it doesnt involve anything medical.But

men can in fact be conditioned to lactate.No joke...I know it sounds bizare...well...in point of fact it is

bizare...maybe alittle too bizare.Maybe I'll try it...

[GalasaKoll]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_lactation

[Kotyara]

Thanks, that's a surprise.

Guess my knowledge in that area needs some updating.

[oranowdenda]

Why don't some of you guys put

yourself in the shoes of an attractive, succesful woman.

First off most of us agree that you have to

visualize your self as having success with the ladies. And you do have to believe that you are a good catch. No

doubt about.

Now in the eyes of a worth while women, after all the DeAngelo is Messiah thinking has wore off,

what will make you an attraction to that woman other than the one hit wonder that you might get to be with

her?

What puts you above the rest of the crowd that may be going after that women? That women is certainly

looking for a man who believes in himself, but also has the credentials to back up that belief. Hocus Pocus

self-confidence is fickle and as I wisely pointed out before, a house built on sand.