[saerensenatljn]

Does anyone know if Paph tranlienianum is legal in the USA? Or have a link to the source document? Either Google is mute or I can't structure a correct search for the current (2012) info. sigh. Its hell getting old.

[aAaBecker]

not sure if its legal but its ugly lol

[cheesypeetyz]

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[MexicoCity]

i like it too, at least in photos
but people, well, that depends....

i kinda sorta think they can be, depending on the source
hengduanbiotech.com has them (but the website isn't working now) and i think all their Paphs are legal here, when imported through them, but i could easily be wrong

[aAaBecker]

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[saerensenatljn]

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[aAaBecker]

Last I heard Chia Hua Dancer and the other gigantifolium hybrids were still illegal,but you can get that anywhere and no one says anything.I doubt anyone will come kicking in your door for one plant.

[saerensenatljn]

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[MexicoCity]

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[aAaBecker]

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[Ferkilort]

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[houkbsdov]

Tranlienum not legal, hangianum not legal, vietnamense only legal from Antec, etc... unless the government believes that these plants are found in China. I had this conversation with Kerry Richards a long time ago bout plants he had with paperwork from a regional Vietnamese CITES office but the central Vietnam office said that no paperwork was given from them; therefore the US govt seized the plants.

[saerensenatljn]

Thanks everyone. I thought it might be the case that a paper trail was still necessary.

[Arrocousa]

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[houkbsdov]

And how did these plants get into China? Did the Peoples' Glorious Democrtic Army move the borders again?!

[saerensenatljn]

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[LOVEBoy]

From my conversations with Averynov while driving him from airport (Chicago) to Milwaukee and back (this means I had two 90 minute conversations with Leonid, he is very pleasant to talk with)

Leonid Averynov does not feel the occurances of various Vietnamese paphs in and around Malipo, China are natural. He feels these populations have been seeded or transplanted. Then after these transplanted plants have settled in and looked natural, they were pointed out to botany and agriculture students doing graduate work from the various Chinese universities. The articles published by the young, eager and less than cynical students then serve as 'proof' that these are Chinese species and therefore legal to export under Chinese CITES documentation.

However, science as such never limits itself to a single authority, so as long as one or another authority disagrees, there is the claim that these species are indeed Chinese in origin.

As a hobby grower I am glad that there is an odd 'disjunct' aggregation of the finest of the Vietnamese species in the hills around the town of Malipo, China as it means in the USA there is a chance I can get a few documented as being acquired legally plants. The documentation by Chinese graduate students as 'real', of these outlier populations, does screw up conservation efforts. In that some species appear in less need of protection than they really are.

Malipo for centuries was a town that specialized in trading medicinal and culinary herbs and spices into China from Vietnam and all points south and west from there. In more modern times it has a large flower market that specializes in selling seasonal flowers to the Chinese markets. The practice of planting medicinal plants into the forests on the hills around Malipo is a practice used for generations to try and increase supply of plants needed for market. Dr Averynov has good reason to be skeptical of the claim that these disjunct populations are legitimate. On the other hand, a USFWS official really can't argue that articles published by Chinese universities are false just because they have an anecdotal objection from one scientist. Understandably the Chinese government is touchy when you tell them their universities are not doing good research. USFWS has to go along with the Chinese government

So the saga goes on. It will be interesting to see if all of a sudden, several years from now, the USFWS will suddenly go back and try to seize plants from US nurseries who in good faith tried to legally import these horticulturally desirable species.

[houkbsdov]

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[Snocioncilm]

Holger Perner's plants are grown in vitro in his lab and he has CITES permits for those brought into the US.

[houkbsdov]

This is so silly. If vietnam did not, as they insist, issue permits for "vietnamese" plants then how could they be legal!