[movlabz]

There are two pieces of literature that I have read through partially that put this video into a much more favorable perspective. One of them is The Federal Zone by Paul Andrew Mitchell, that describes the jurisdictional issues the Federal government has, and the deception and fraud practiced by the IRS. You can download that book here:

http://www.supremelaw.org/fedzone11/index.htm

The other is The Great IRS Hoax at the FamilyGuardian.org, which you can download and read here:

http://famguardian.org/Publications/...eatIRSHoax.htm

There is a good piece about The Federal Zone here:

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/fedzone.htm

I've been reading these books off and on for almost a year now. I started off with the attitude I see that most posters on this thread have--one of resignation. Like there are only two certainties in this world--death and taxes. The more I became informed, the less I believed it about taxes.

It doesn't matter how many guns and bombs the government can use against you. We are a civilized nation. If the government wants to maintain its legitimacy, it has to obey its own laws. If the government cannot show you the law governing one of its practices of relieving you of your income, then it is likely that it is relieving you of your income fraudulently. If you watched the video in the OP, you will note that there is a fairly long segment of a woman who sat on a jury for a trial of a man who lived in Illinois and was hounded by the IRS for not paying taxes. She described how the Jury asked the judge to show them the law that required that man to pay taxes. The judge could not show that law to the jury, and the jury acquitted the man on trial.

The whole video is about the ignorance and fear that people have of and about the IRS. That is evident in the posts on this thread. That ignorance and fear paralyzes people. They do not ask questions, but quietly acquiesce and pay their taxes for fear of the consequences of not doing so. The IRS and the government exploits that fear and ignorance.

Whoever pays by mistake what he does not owe, may recover it back; but he who pays, knowing he owes nothing; is presumed to give. Seriously, how do you know you owe taxes? How do you know the tax code applies to you? Has anybody read the Internal Revenue Code? Are you paying by mistake? Does the government have the authority to tax you? If it does, then it can show you by what authority it does so. Quo warranto? By what authority? What if they have no authority? What if it's all a big hoax? And we all go along because we're afraid to challenge them? I bet the politicians, especially Mitt for Brains is laughing all the way to the bank about the suckers that part with their hard earned money because they don't have the will or the discipline to find out what the law really requires. How effectively do you think when you are paralyzed with fear?

Hatha

Hatha, you bring a good point up about this federal zone.
It just so happens that the Social Security act defines just such a zone (or territory).
Your reasoning about how effectively does a person think when they are paralyzed with fear corralates with how effectively one thinks when paralyzed with disinformation.
The Social Security Act defines just such a "federal zone" for those who participate.
The Social Security Act defines "state" as:

(e) State, United States, and citizen
For purposes of this chapter—
(1) State
The term “State” includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa.
(2) United States
The term “United States” when used in a geographical sense includes the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa.
An individual who is a citizen of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico (but not otherwise a citizen of the United States) shall be considered, for purposes of this section, as a citizen of the United States.

When a person who is infected (paralyzed of reasonable thinking from being controlled from someone elses uneducated rationalizing) they cannot grasp that the Social Security Act is defining just such a "federal zone".
Most cannot comprehend this term "state", as used in this Act, is actually telling them.
The Social Security Act, through the term "state" is telling the participant by participating in Social Security the participant falls squarely into the federal zone or territory.
Sadly, most people tend to beleive in a conspiracy because its easier to blame someone else than to admit they were wrong or to lazy to think for themselves.
Humbling thyself comes with many blessings!

[movlabz]

Well Ares wheres your proof?

[floadaVonfoli]

Well Ares wheres your proof?

Ares is more correct than you are. The basis for taxation is money of account, imaginary money. You are instructed to give to Caesar that which is Caesar's and all Caesar has are things that are not real. When he asks for them back you ought to give them back, even if he asks for ALL of them rather than just a portion.

If you have certificates or bill of exchanges or notes representing others debts in your pocket and you use them daily to exchange for your needs and to purchase your labor then you have stopped being real yourself and are as imaginary as the money is. I call these things "corporate coupons" because only corporations use them or handle them ... and that includes YOU.

Evidence that you are in the jurisdiction of 26 USC is provided by you when you cite this code. If it applies to you then follow it. If it doesn't apply then why are you looking to it for guidance?

[floadaVonfoli]

(e) State, United States, and citizen
For purposes of this chapter—
(1) State
The term “State” includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa.
(2) United States
The term “United States” when used in a geographical sense includes the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa.

You might also point out that "United States" is not a familiar term of "The United States of America", the stile established by the Articles of Confederation for the union of the several States.

The Stile of this Confederacy shall be

"The United States of America". Common law says "things that are similar are not the same." Another source of Law tells you that "by their fruit you will recognize them". The name tells you little. How government acts speaks volumes.

[movlabz]

Ares is more correct than you are. The basis for taxation is money of account, imaginary money. You are instructed to give to Caesar that which is Caesar's and all Caesar has are things that are not real. When he asks for them back you ought to give them back, even if he asks for ALL of them rather than just a portion.

If you have certificates or bill of exchanges or notes representing others debts in your pocket and you use them daily to exchange for your needs and to purchase your labor then you have stopped being real yourself and are as imaginary as the money is. I call these things "corporate coupons" because only corporations use them or handle them ... and that includes YOU.

Evidence that you are in the jurisdiction of 26 USC is provided by you when you cite this code. If it applies to you then follow it. If it doesn't apply then why are you looking to it for guidance?

Can you show me in title 26 where it specifically states having debt in your pocket causes an imposition upon labor?
Because in my 18 plus years studying the tax laws no such regulation or statute exists!

Until you can provide ANY law stating so Palani your thesis is just a pile of horse bisket hear say.
Historical facts says you're misguided Palani and not to be trusted.

I can provide all the evidence in statutory and regulatory form showing your labor is taxed because of 3121(b) "employment" (W4).
I even have the statute that says a W4 is only required upon commencement of "employment".
A W4 is not required outside of participating in Social Security.

Just what do you think a "franchise tax board" is palani?
Just having to file tax forms with the franchise tax board means you are part of the corporation.

And the only thing you have correctly stated so far is stating the difference between the US and USofA.
I've read the book "US vs USofA".....maybe you should as well.

[floadaVonfoli]

Can you show me in title 26 where it specifically states having debt in your pocket causes an imposition upon labor?

I am not a creature of title 26.

[floadaVonfoli]

Until you can provide ANY law stating so Palani your thesis is just a pile of horse bisket hear say.
Historical facts says you're misguided Palani and not to be trusted.

I don't argue with fools. Why would I make an exception in your case?

[floadaVonfoli]

I've read the book "US vs USofA".....maybe you should as well.

Good for you. But do you know TJ (the author)? He lives around 50 miles south of you.

[floadaVonfoli]

Just what do you think a "franchise tax board" is

A board is a slab that has been run through a saw mill. Would it be one of these?

[movlabz]

I am not a creature of title 26.

Nice way of admiting you know absolutely nothing of what you speak.

David Merrill needs you to keep his ego stroked.

[movlabz]

Still cant find any legal evidence in what you say has any base in the law I see.
If word speak is your way of saying you know nothing then so be it Palani
Its not good for the image you are trying to convey around here.

[movlabz]

I don't argue with fools. Why would I make an exception in your case?

Still cant find any legal evidence in what you say has any base in the law I see.
If word speak is your way of saying you know nothing then so be it Palani.
Its not good for the image you are trying to convey around here.

Its like you are trying to tell everyone here you can fly an airplane but yet in the same paragraph refuse to take any flight lessons.

[floadaVonfoli]

Nice way of admiting you know absolutely nothing of what you speak.

Show me where I have spoken of title 26.

David Merrill needs you to keep his ego stroked.

I don't know David Merrill.

[floadaVonfoli]

Still cant find any legal evidence in what you say has any base in the law I see.

You won't find any legal evidence. I don't seek permission.

If word speak is your way of saying you know nothing then so be it

I have knowledge of no FACTS. FACTS are classified as 'evil deeds'. If you have knowledge of them be aware that misprison of felony involves being silent when you should speak.

Its not good for the image you are trying to convey around here.

What image would that be?

Its like you are trying to tell everyone here you can fly an airplane but yet in the same paragraph refuse to take any flight lessons.

Possibly a poor analogy. Money in circulation is debt. You are unable to make any purchases with debt. Therefore you have made no purchases. Nowhere have I stated that I am able or privileged to make purchases where others may not.

[daguy]

Here is another site, with another view.

Ed Rivera has made a number of discoveries about our organic laws and their application.

Main premise is our constitution has never been adopted, but is used for an entity called the United States under the control of an entity called the United States of America. The United States of America was founded by the Declaration of Independence and the Articles of Confederation.

The United States and it's constitution control all federal areas.

[Cajlwdvx]

The FRNs that are deemed money in the USA are legal tender--meaning that the government will take them for payment of taxes regardless of whether they have any value or not.

The point I raised in the OP was not about how one pays 'income tax' but rather whether anyone owes the government any income tax. The video in the OP takes the position that ordinary working people have been suckered into volunteering to pay taxes they do not legally owe because there is no law that says they do. Or at least no one can find such a law. It has been legally determined that the 16th Amendment gave the government no new powers to tax the people. The Constitution says that taxes must be apportioned among the states. The way the income tax is applied does not meet that apportionment criteria. Also, the Federal government does not have jurisdiction over the people in the several states, but only over the 'residents' of the District of Columbia, and the Territories owned by the USA, i. e. Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Guam, Northern Marianna Islands and Pacific Trust Territories, as well as military bases throughout the world. What is in question here is the legality of taxing all American citizens. The conclusion in the OP video is that we do not owe taxes, but we volunteer to pay them for fear of the consequences of not doing so.

That to me, sounds like extortion. The IRS creates fear, then cashes in on the ignorance of the people. Few people seem to have the courage to question the legality of this extortion, and so it continues unabated, and the government's appetite for this kind of shakedown grows into other aspects of our lives. Those who do have the courage to question the legality of this extortion are effectively abandoned by those who lack such courage, and the government is allowed to punish those people for breaking laws which do not exist.

Glass got it right. If about 10% of the population, or roughly 30 million people adopted the attitude that income tax is illegal, then the tipping point would be reached, and the income tax would disappear. If 10% of the population believe something is true, the rest will follow. The government knows this, and so takes draconian measures against any who might make up such a body of believers to convince the rest that they are wrong.

We have here an opportunity to exercise what many on this forum believe they already do, that is, thinking for ones self. I don't see many people taking that opportunity. It is possible to educate one's self, and to overcome fear and ignorance, but it requires a bit of courage. My observation that such courage is one of the rarest human attributes is once again confirmed. Most of us would rather let someone else lead the charge, and join only if it looks like it will be successful, when we could join and make it successful. This is the crux of the human dilemma. Do I do what's right, or do I do what everybody else does?

Hatha

[Cemeuncex]

The FRNs that are deemed money in the USA are legal tender--meaning that the government will take them for payment of taxes regardless of whether they have any value or not.

The point I raised in the OP was not about how one pays 'income tax' but rather whether anyone owes the government any income tax. The video in the OP takes the position that ordinary working people have been suckered into volunteering to pay taxes they do not legally owe because there is no law that says they do. Or at least no one can find such a law. It has been legally determined that the 16th Amendment gave the government no new powers to tax the people. The Constitution says that taxes must be apportioned among the states. The way the income tax is applied does not meet that apportionment criteria. Also, the Federal government does not have jurisdiction over the people in the several states, but only over the 'residents' of the District of Columbia, and the Territories owned by the USA, i. e. Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Guam, Northern Marianna Islands and Pacific Trust Territories, as well as military bases throughout the world. What is in question here is the legality of taxing all American citizens. The conclusion in the OP video is that we do not owe taxes, but we volunteer to pay them for fear of the consequences of not doing so.

That to me, sounds like extortion. The IRS creates fear, then cashes in on the ignorance of the people. Few people seem to have the courage to question the legality of this extortion, and so it continues unabated, and the government's appetite for this kind of shakedown grows into other aspects of our lives. Those who do have the courage to question the legality of this extortion are effectively abandoned by those who lack such courage, and the government is allowed to punish those people for breaking laws which do not exist.

Glass got it right. If about 10% of the population, or roughly 30 million people adopted the attitude that income tax is illegal, then the tipping point would be reached, and the income tax would disappear. If 10% of the population believe something is true, the rest will follow. The government knows this, and so takes draconian measures against any who might make up such a body of believers to convince the rest that they are wrong.

We have here an opportunity to exercise what many on this forum believe they already do, that is, thinking for ones self. I don't see many people taking that opportunity. It is possible to educate one's self, and to overcome fear and ignorance, but it requires a bit of courage. My observation that such courage is one of the rarest human attributes is once again confirmed. Most of us would rather let someone else lead the charge, and join only if it looks like it will be successful, when we could join and make it successful. This is the crux of the human dilemma. Do I do what's right, or do I do what everybody else does?

Hatha

Well said Hatha.

Like I explained to 7th Trump, there's more than 1 way to slay this beast. I've taken the redeeming lawful money approach as have a couple other members on this forum. I won't name names, that is up to them if they want to be known or not. I'm not in jail, I haven't even received so much as a phone call from the IRS. Will it stay that way? Only the creator knows. But at least I have the courage to stand by and execute my research and convictions.

Title 12 U.S.C. 411 I believe is how we can kill the beast. 7th Trump has researched the IRS code itself and relies upon title 26. That works for him. More power to him. I won't fault anyone for looking at ways and standing by their convictions. What I won't tolerate is that it's their way and the only way.

[movlabz]

Heres a question posed that the fiat causes taxation crowd cant answer.

How does the reporting aspect of income taxes relate to fiat currency?

Last I heard an employee voluntarily signs A W4 authorizing the employer to treat the the pay as 3121(a) "wages" to credit the SS account and allow deductions for the income tax.
Can anybody in the fiat private credit community explain why a customer of a bank dosnt sign a W4 when opening a bank account?
Probably not, but its fun to watch them trip over their own ignorance.

[xanaxonlinexanax]

Heres a question posed that the fiat causes taxation crowd cant answer.

How does the reporting aspect of income taxes relate to fiat currency?

Last I heard an employee voluntarily signs A W4 authorizing the employer to treat the the pay as 3121(a) "wages" to credit the SS account and allow deductions for the income tax.
Can anybody in the fiat private credit community explain why a customer of a bank dosnt sign a W4 when opening a bank account?
Probably not, but its fun to watch them trip over their own ignorance.

banks use a different form, a w-9, or they use their own in house branded one in the stack of stuff you sign when opening an account. standard practice since the patriot act went in to effect.

[movlabz]

banks use a different form, a w-9, or they use their own in house branded one in the stack of stuff you sign when opening an account. standard practice since the patriot act went in to effect.

Sorry Chad, but a W9 is used for identification only.

I'm looking for the form banks use to withhold taxes from your pay.

Something along the lines that authorizes your earnings to get treated as taxable income....if it exists.
Also, looking for any statute that says posessing a bank account is a taxable activity (excise activity).