[strollerssfsfs]

OK, if the money they create is just the principal, and what people owe them is the principal plus the interest, where does the interest come from? Who creates the interest? Or do people just borrow more principal to pay off the interest?


Hatha

[Nemerov]

OK, if the money they create is just the principal, and what people owe them is the principal plus the interest, where does the interest come from? Who creates the interest? Or do people just borrow more principal to pay off the itnerest?


Hatha

First the loan repayment schedule has to be right, to accommodate a number of small payments.

It comes from the bankers spending of the interest collected. There is no need to borrow any additional money.

The money is recycled, spent many times. Banker spends interest to buy your congress critter, critter takes money and buys a prostitute, Prostitute buys drugs from her dealer, dealer buys dinner at fancy restaurant, xxx on and on it goes same money 100 dollars but spent 6 times +.

[strollerssfsfs]

If you went to the bank and borrowed $100 at an interest rate of 5% per day, and you planned to pay it back tomrrrow, and this was all the money in circulation in the entire world, where would you get the extra $5 to pay as interest tomorrow? Would you give them $5 worth of whatever you produce? What if they wanted money?


Hatha

[Nemerov]

If you went to the bank and borrowed $100 at an interest rate of 5% per day, and you planned to pay it back tomrrrow, and this was all the money in circulation in the entire world, where would you get the extra $5 to pay as interest tomorrow? Would you give them $5 worth of whatever you produce? What if they wanted money?


Hatha

Like I said you can dream up all sorts of examples that won't work, BUT they don't model the system you are trying to describe.

Or maybe they do model something called misinfo.

You are confusing spending (payments are spending) with money.

You are saying a noun has to equal a verb or in other words you are claiming the amount of money has to equal the amount of spending.

[bapimporb]

In answer too your question.....its OK Im looking after it............

[strollerssfsfs]

Bigjon-- You need to revisit your assumption that the interest is INCLUDED in the amount borrowed. The amount borrowed is the principal. In order for you to pay your interest obligation, somebody else has to borrow money, and get it into circulation so that you can work for it and earn some of it to pay your interest obligation. As long as someone can borrow more money, there may be enough money for people to pay interest on their loans.

We are talking about debt-based money. All of it is borrowed into existence, but more of it is owed (debt) because of interest, than actually exists to pay it back. The way this system works, that amount owed beyond the money that is in circulation can never be paid back. Because of this, the whole system is a fraud--a giant ponzi scheme. This is what is behind the Global Financial Crisis. The tipping point has been reached. What happens next is that everyone will wake up (including you) and see this, and the confidence in the debt based fiat money will evaporate. This is why there is so much planning for Fema camps, and militarized police, and totalitarian government. They are planning for the big 'awakening'. People won't be happy when they finally understand how they have been defrauded not only by the money scheme, but by the 'Laws' that support it.

You might find it hard to believe, but the bankers already own everything. That happened in 1933 when the US declared bankruptcy. Read about that one here:

http://barefootsworld.net/usfraud.html

If you don't assume that everything you 'know' is true, you might actually learn what is really true.

At any point in time, the amount of debt principal and interest due is greater than the amount of money in existence to pay it. That is not an opinion. That is a fact.

Hatha

[comprar-espana]

Go into any bank. Ask the manager "At the end of the day do your books balance?" and I will guarantee he will tell you they do. Between the start of the day and the end he might have issued $1,000,000 in loans (without a single dollar in cash crossing the counter). The paper he exchanged for the loans balance the loans given. The value is in the signature of the people promising to repay the loans.

Interest payments unbalance the books.

[S.T.D.]

~ At any point in time, the amount of debt principal and interest due is greater than the amount of money in existence to pay it. That is not an opinion. That is a fact.

Hatha

Well, considering that there is only $1.1 Trillion in legal tender money circulating, I would say that what you've said is very true.

[Nemerov]

Well, considering that there is only $1.1 Trillion in legal tender money circulating, I would say that what you've said is very true.

You guys are confused, it is really quite simple. Spending uses money, but isn't money.

I'm only talking about paying off a bank loan. If you want to talk about the national debt, treasury bonds and frn's that is another story. The Fed designed and operates the system to fail and wants you to believe this misinfo about not enough money to pay interest on a bank loan.

I've put it in such simple terms, that I can't make it any simpler.

You can believe crap, but its still crap.

[Nemerov]

Go into any bank. Ask the manager "At the end of the day do your books balance?" and I will guarantee he will tell you they do. Between the start of the day and the end he might have issued $1,000,000 in loans (without a single dollar in cash crossing the counter). The paper he exchanged for the loans balance the loans given. The value is in the signature of the people promising to repay the loans.

Interest payments unbalance the books.

Of course his books balance, that's how the system works.

Interest payments are made every day and at the end of the day the books balance.

You have contradictory statements.

[comprar-espana]

Spending uses money, but isn't money....You can believe crap, but its still crap.

In no world where you act as an agent for the Federal Reserve do you have the ability to alien a single dollar bill. You must be the owner to alien.

[comprar-espana]

Of course his books balance, that's how the system works.

Interest payments are made every day and at the end of the day the books balance.

You have contradictory statements.

If the books are balanced (you exchanged one thing of value for another) then what possible basis is there to charge interest?

[S.T.D.]

You guys are confused, it is really quite simple. Spending uses money, but isn't money. ~

What do you call it when you spend but don't use money to do it, pay without paying?

[Nemerov]

Bigjon-- You need to revisit your assumption that the interest is INCLUDED in the amount borrowed. The amount borrowed is the principal. In order for you to pay your interest obligation, somebody else has to borrow money, and get it into circulation so that you can work for it and earn some of it to pay your interest obligation. As long as someone can borrow more money, there may be enough money for people to pay interest on their loans.

We are talking about debt-based money. All of it is borrowed into existence, but more of it is owed (debt) because of interest, than actually exists to pay it back. The way this system works, that amount owed beyond the money that is in circulation can never be paid back. Because of this, the whole system is a fraud--a giant ponzi scheme. This is what is behind the Global Financial Crisis. The tipping point has been reached. What happens next is that everyone will wake up (including you) and see this, and the confidence in the debt based fiat money will evaporate. This is why there is so much planning for Fema camps, and militarized police, and totalitarian government. They are planning for the big 'awakening'. People won't be happy when they finally understand how they have been defrauded not only by the money scheme, but by the 'Laws' that support it.

You might find it hard to believe, but the bankers already own everything. That happened in 1933 when the US declared bankruptcy. Read about that one here:

http://barefootsworld.net/usfraud.html

If you don't assume that everything you 'know' is true, you might actually learn what is really true.

At any point in time, the amount of debt principal and interest due is greater than the amount of money in existence to pay it. That is not an opinion. That is a fact.

Hatha

I can't make it any simpler so I'll just have to appeal to authority.

http://www.freedomforceinternational...refpage=issues

[Nemerov]

What do you call it when you spend but don't use money to do it, pay without paying?

That is not what I said.

How many times can a dollar be spent?

[S.T.D.]

That is not what I said.

How many times can a dollar be spent?

According to the latest figures I've seen, apparently hundred's of trillions of times.

[Pipindula]

Where hasn't all the money gone??

What money? Which money?

FRN's are not money. You can't own something that ain't yours to begin with.

Please be more specific.

[PerfectCreditForYou]

e.

Anyway, I'm just imagining how money "might" be used without it inevitably becoming a debt instrument.

It seems to me that money disappears as a consequence of a peoples inability to produce goods to exchange with one another.

money has always been a debt instrument. Ancient Greece under a full gold standard collapsed several times due to gov borrowing mostly caused by wars and for the sake of their grandiose architecture. Ancient Rome went down the road when mixing its gold/silver with other metals to finance the empire and that at least 50% of the population were slaves. Even gold couldnt prevent The Tulip Mania from going bust. And pro-gold venician bankers are responsible for the first world crash in the 1200-1300's

shortages and usury/credits up to one's ears go well along together.

Until sound economics isnt taught in high schools, the consequences of borrowing one's future is inevitable, I am afraid.

I am not adverse to paper money if issued without an interest and usury abolished. Fiat and hard currencies for savings should compete. If some can longer enrich themselves by putting others into debts, that's already something. I agree with the maker of "the money masters", that are those who control the supply that matter.

[Nemerov]

According to the latest figures I've seen, apparently hundred's of trillions of times.

That is a truer statement than you know virtual money clearing via a mainframe down at the Fed.

Checkbook money doesn't need frn's to clear.

I used to fix those mainframes.

One other point, if money is scarcer because of the interest (I don't agree that money is scarcer, this is just conjecture.)

Than the value of the remaining money should go up. Less money equals more value.

That has never happened in my lifetime.

[DexOnenlyCymn]

That is a truer statement than you know virtual money clearing via a mainframe down at the Fed.

Checkbook money doesn't need frn's to clear.

I used to fix those mainframes.

More details?

One other point, if money is scarcer because of the interest (I don't agree that money is scarcer, this is just conjecture.)

Than the value of the remaining money should go up. Less money equals more value.

That has never happened in my lifetime.

Because the way TPTB makes the quickest money is not by just charging interest (although that's probably the MOST money).

But by being first guys in to a giant money hose (money printing, tax dollars distributed etc.).

The closer you are to the money hose, the money you get - DOD, guaranteed contracts, large commecial banks that get first stab at FED's money. etc.

The way this works is that you don't make the hose smaller, NEVER. You always MAKE THE HOSE BIGGER, so you and your buddies be first to grab more.

This is why they want to be politicians, they want proximity to the hose (probably now $Trillions , if not tens of trillions, per year).

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