Chevy Volt ad - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**LxtdK9i4** · 03-06-2012, 01:44 PM

This sure makes me want to buy one. I think I will apply for a government grant to get one.

**Promotiona** · 03-06-2012, 02:32 PM

Ha ha! I totally thought that was a real commercial at first! LOL!

I heard that Chevy had to halt production of the Volt because there's just not enough demand to make it worth while. Even with the massive subsidies and grants the government gave them, it's still a flop. What a waste of resources, courtesy of the US gov't.

**goolen4you** · 03-06-2012, 02:45 PM

Ha ha! I totally thought that was a real commercial at first! LOL!

I heard that Chevy had to halt production of the Volt because there's just not enough demand to make it worth while. Even with the massive subsidies and grants the government gave them, it's still a flop. What a waste of resources, courtesy of the US gov't.

Almost all the sales are channel stuffing. These lemons that tend to explode into flames at inconvenient times (like when you're driving one), which us taxpayers paid over $200,000 per car to subsidize, will sit in dealer lots until they rust, explode or get sold for scrap. How's that for a centrally planned economy! Obama is obviously a genius: he proves that capitalsim is a failed outdated paradigm. You don't need to be profitable to succeed. You merely need to know how to steal other people's money and get away with it.

**goolen4you** · 03-06-2012, 02:47 PM

This sure makes me want to buy one. I think I will apply for a government grant to get one.

The best part: Flame resistant suit included with your new Volt emblazoned with the Chevy logo, in flames!

**Promotiona** · 03-06-2012, 02:50 PM

http://epautos.com/2012/03/03/the-vo...th-the-fishes/

GM has just announced it will be idling the plant (and the 1,300 workers at that plant) where the “game changing” Chevy Volt electric car is – uh, was – built. GM says it’s only temporary – until they figure out how to “align production with demand.” It could be a long wait for those workers.

GM projected production of 45,000 Volts this year. That may have been just a little bright-sided. Last year, 7,621 of them found buyers (about 2,400 fewer than the 10,000 GM had hoped for). This past month, just over 1,000 of the $40,000 sort-of electric cars (sort of, because deep inside the thing, there’s a gas engine that serves as a sort of carry-it-with-you “range extender”), which means “production” and “demand” have a ways to go before they are, er, aligned.

One reason why, obviously – though perhaps not to GM – is that the concept itself was misaligned. Electric (and hybrid-electric) cars exist for one reason: To do an end-run around gasoline. The whole point of the exercise, as a practical matter, is to lower the cost of driving by cutting the driver loose from $4 a gallon fuel. But when it takes $40,000 to do that, it becomes pointless as a practical matter. Yes, it’s a clever bit of engineering. I know. I’ve driven the Volt. Remarkable. It can operate at steady 60 MPH for several miles (rather than coast for a few seconds, like most hybrids) purely on the strength of its electric motor and batteries. Very cool. But also very expensive – and that’s the point that matters.

The Volt’s sticker price is in BMW 3 Series/Lexus GS land. Do people who purchase $40k cars have to worry much about $4 gas? Apparently this thought did not occur to the people at GM responsible for the Volt. Even with a $7k direct federal subsidy to each buyer (more on the indirect subsidies below) a new Volt still costs what we call in the car business “entry luxury” money. Easily two (even three) times the amount that would buy you any one of several very appealing compact sedans, several of which get 40 MPG on the highway.

So, drum roll, people looking for something economical did not look at the Volt. Who did? CEO Dan Akerson conceded that the average income of a Volt buyer is $170,000 annually – not exactly hard times.

GM figured (so it said) the Volt could be sold to the less flush on the basis of its down-the-road economies. But those are theoretical and ill-defined (including, for instance, such as variables as winter driving; how will extreme cold weather affect the electric drivetrain? Etc.). But the up-front costs are very real – and forbidding. People facing lean times are not lining up to finance a $40k purchase, even with a$7k carrot dangled in front of them. And the potential buyer pool of 170k’ers per year is just about dried up.

Is GM unaware? I doubt it, because all kidding aside, GM is anything but stupid. That is, the people running it can do math. They also understand marketing – and politics. And that’s where the troof comes out about the Volt and why it ever saw the light of day.

GM, like every car company, has embraced the politics of green because it leads to taxpayer-financed green. Think Solyndra was a boondoggle? The Mackinac Center for Public Policy estimates that the actual cost-per-car of each Volt, once all the federal subsidies are factored in, comes to $250,000 or $3 billion, total. (Lookee here for more.)

Guess who paid for that?

It wasn’t GM’s money. It was your money. And mine. And the money taken from millions of other taxpayers, all poured into the coffers of GM to further the advancement of otherwise economically untenable projects that would never have see the light of day except for the fact that we have a system of crony capitalism that distorts the free market like a funhouse mirror.

The Mackinac study’s author, James Hohman, tartly described the Volt as “the most government-supported car since the Trabant” – a reference to the infamous two-stroke, plastic-bodied POS manufactured in the old DDR – that’s East Germany, for the edification of younger readers.

And that’s what rubs. If you or I decided to build a Homer Mobile (remember?) in our garage, it’d be up to us to finance the thing and if we went next door to our neighbor’s place and flashed a gun demanding money or else to “help” we’d be shot by the neighbor or tossed in jail. But that’s because we are not Too Big To Fail. GM, of course, is. And has many big friends in Washington, too. So it can indulge in the building of electric Homer Mobiles and send the tab to us – and pocket the proceeds.

Because keep in mind that GM is not losing money on the Volt. We are.

The joke’s on us – again.

**phinno13** · 03-06-2012, 05:00 PM

The VOLT would sell like wildfire if it wasn't for the pricetag. Halve it and they wouldn't be able to produce them fast enough. That is the SOLE issue with the volt (IMO)
I have a 52 mile commute to work (there and back)...if I could do half of that commute w/o $4 gasoline...sign me up! My wife and I spend ~$350/month on gasoline. I have a V6 Chevy S10 and she has a V6 Ford 500 so no large SUVs or big trucks either. (S10 = 18mpg and 500 = 24MPG)

I'm currently researching Compress Natural Gas (CNG) as an alternative to Gasoline. Honda makes the Civic GX that is CNG only (and from my research is $7k more then the regular Civic) and I would need to buy a $3,500 "home compressor" as there isn't a CNG fill station in the entire state of WV. so basically a $10-11k premium to be "free" of gasoline. According to my calculations I would get ~7.89 Gallons (Gas Equivalent) out of a MCF NG (Thousand Cubic Feet Natural Gas) for which I pay my gas company at $10/MCF. Or $1.26 per "gallon equivalent" + electricity to run the home compressor so maybe $1.80.
According to my driving and costs I would save $1276/yr by driving with CNG @ $1.80 vs Gasoline at $3.80 or a ~8 years to make the difference to make CNG "pay off"

In otherwords for my driving habits (even with a long commute) it just isn't worth it at todays current prices...even with ~$4 gasoline. Gotta find some way to get rid of the "premium" for using alternative fuels...even when the fuel itself is cheaper the payoff is just too far away...

**goolen4you** · 03-06-2012, 05:09 PM

The VOLT would sell like wildfire if it wasn't for the pricetag. Halve it and they wouldn't be able to produce them fast enough. That is the SOLE issue with the volt (IMO)
I have a 52 mile commute to work (there and back)...if I could do half of that commute w/o $4 gasoline...sign me up! My wife and I spend ~$350/month on gasoline. I have a V6 Chevy S10 and she has a V6 Ford 500 so no large SUVs or big trucks either. (S10 = 18mpg and 500 = 24MPG)

I'm currently researching Compress Natural Gas (CNG) as an alternative to Gasoline. Honda makes the Civic GX that is CNG only (and from my research is $7k more then the regular Civic) and I would need to buy a $3,500 "home compressor" as there isn't a CNG fill station in the entire state of WV. so basically a $10-11k premium to be "free" of gasoline. According to my calculations I would get ~7.89 Gallons (Gas Equivalent) out of a MCF NG (Thousand Cubic Feet Natural Gas) for which I pay my gas company at $10/MCF. Or $1.26 per "gallon equivalent" + electricity to run the home compressor so maybe $1.80.
According to my driving and costs I would save $1276/yr by driving with CNG @ $1.80 vs Gasoline at $3.80 or a ~8 years to make the difference to make CNG "pay off"

In otherwords for my driving habits (even with a long commute) it just isn't worth it at todays current prices...even with ~$4 gasoline. Gotta find some way to get rid of the "premium" for using alternative fuels...even when the fuel itself is cheaper the payoff is just too far away...

If it was only half the price it would sell like hot cakes! Sure, and if my Aunt had balls she'd be my Uncle. The point being that centrally planned enterprises fail because they usually make a product that no one needs or wants at twice the cost of a private enterprise and with cost overruns because of graft, payoffs, and no-bid sweetheart deals and contracts.

Not only is it not worth the small savings; but you didn't factor in the increase in your fire insurance premiums and the copays on your skin grafts to repair severe third degree burns to your and your wife's bodies.

**Calluffence** · 03-06-2012, 05:09 PM

if they really want to make tons of money, start making the 3 cylinder geo metro again. i had one new, it would do 40+ all day long. price them cheap at around $11,000 or so (just under what a kia rio sells for new), and you couldn't keep them on the lots at all.

last time gas ran up over $4.00, there were people here taking out half page ads trying to find old ones to rebuild. why they aren't doing this stupifies me. they could probably even sell it sub $10,000 at this point. i had mine for 4 years without any problems at all.

**Promotiona** · 03-06-2012, 06:34 PM

The VOLT would sell like wildfire if it wasn't for the pricetag.

Which is why the whole project was an uneconomical misallocation of resources. If GM wasn't literally being paid by the government to build these things, they never would have been built. If it was the company's money at stake, they'd never build cars like these.

03-06-2012, 01:44 PM	#1
LxtdK9i4 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 433 Senior Member	Chevy Volt ad This sure makes me want to buy one. I think I will apply for a government grant to get one. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-06-2012, 02:32 PM	#2
Promotiona Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 324 Senior Member	Ha ha! I totally thought that was a real commercial at first! LOL! I heard that Chevy had to halt production of the Volt because there's just not enough demand to make it worth while. Even with the massive subsidies and grants the government gave them, it's still a flop. What a waste of resources, courtesy of the US gov't. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-06-2012, 02:45 PM	#3
goolen4you Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 447 Senior Member	Ha ha! I totally thought that was a real commercial at first! LOL! I heard that Chevy had to halt production of the Volt because there's just not enough demand to make it worth while. Even with the massive subsidies and grants the government gave them, it's still a flop. What a waste of resources, courtesy of the US gov't. Almost all the sales are channel stuffing. These lemons that tend to explode into flames at inconvenient times (like when you're driving one), which us taxpayers paid over $200,000 per car to subsidize, will sit in dealer lots until they rust, explode or get sold for scrap. How's that for a centrally planned economy! Obama is obviously a genius: he proves that capitalsim is a failed outdated paradigm. You don't need to be profitable to succeed. You merely need to know how to steal other people's money and get away with it. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-06-2012, 02:47 PM	#4
goolen4you Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 447 Senior Member	This sure makes me want to buy one. I think I will apply for a government grant to get one. The best part: Flame resistant suit included with your new Volt emblazoned with the Chevy logo, in flames! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-06-2012, 02:50 PM	#5
Promotiona Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 324 Senior Member	http://epautos.com/2012/03/03/the-vo...th-the-fishes/ GM has just announced it will be idling the plant (and the 1,300 workers at that plant) where the “game changing” Chevy Volt electric car is – uh, was – built. GM says it’s only temporary – until they figure out how to “align production with demand.” It could be a long wait for those workers. GM projected production of 45,000 Volts this year. That may have been just a little bright-sided. Last year, 7,621 of them found buyers (about 2,400 fewer than the 10,000 GM had hoped for). This past month, just over 1,000 of the $40,000 sort-of electric cars (sort of, because deep inside the thing, there’s a gas engine that serves as a sort of carry-it-with-you “range extender”), which means “production” and “demand” have a ways to go before they are, er, aligned. One reason why, obviously – though perhaps not to GM – is that the concept itself was misaligned. Electric (and hybrid-electric) cars exist for one reason: To do an end-run around gasoline. The whole point of the exercise, as a practical matter, is to lower the cost of driving by cutting the driver loose from $4 a gallon fuel. But when it takes $40,000 to do that, it becomes pointless as a practical matter. Yes, it’s a clever bit of engineering. I know. I’ve driven the Volt. Remarkable. It can operate at steady 60 MPH for several miles (rather than coast for a few seconds, like most hybrids) purely on the strength of its electric motor and batteries. Very cool. But also very expensive – and that’s the point that matters. The Volt’s sticker price is in BMW 3 Series/Lexus GS land. Do people who purchase $40k cars have to worry much about $4 gas? Apparently this thought did not occur to the people at GM responsible for the Volt. Even with a $7k direct federal subsidy to each buyer (more on the indirect subsidies below) a new Volt still costs what we call in the car business “entry luxury” money. Easily two (even three) times the amount that would buy you any one of several very appealing compact sedans, several of which get 40 MPG on the highway. So, drum roll, people looking for something economical did not look at the Volt. Who did? CEO Dan Akerson conceded that the average income of a Volt buyer is $170,000 annually – not exactly hard times. GM figured (so it said) the Volt could be sold to the less flush on the basis of its down-the-road economies. But those are theoretical and ill-defined (including, for instance, such as variables as winter driving; how will extreme cold weather affect the electric drivetrain? Etc.). But the up-front costs are very real – and forbidding. People facing lean times are not lining up to finance a $40k purchase, even with a$7k carrot dangled in front of them. And the potential buyer pool of 170k’ers per year is just about dried up. Is GM unaware? I doubt it, because all kidding aside, GM is anything but stupid. That is, the people running it can do math. They also understand marketing – and politics. And that’s where the troof comes out about the Volt and why it ever saw the light of day. GM, like every car company, has embraced the politics of green because it leads to taxpayer-financed green. Think Solyndra was a boondoggle? The Mackinac Center for Public Policy estimates that the actual cost-per-car of each Volt, once all the federal subsidies are factored in, comes to $250,000 or $3 billion, total. (Lookee here for more.) Guess who paid for that? It wasn’t GM’s money. It was your money. And mine. And the money taken from millions of other taxpayers, all poured into the coffers of GM to further the advancement of otherwise economically untenable projects that would never have see the light of day except for the fact that we have a system of crony capitalism that distorts the free market like a funhouse mirror. The Mackinac study’s author, James Hohman, tartly described the Volt as “the most government-supported car since the Trabant” – a reference to the infamous two-stroke, plastic-bodied POS manufactured in the old DDR – that’s East Germany, for the edification of younger readers. And that’s what rubs. If you or I decided to build a Homer Mobile (remember?) in our garage, it’d be up to us to finance the thing and if we went next door to our neighbor’s place and flashed a gun demanding money or else to “help” we’d be shot by the neighbor or tossed in jail. But that’s because we are not Too Big To Fail. GM, of course, is. And has many big friends in Washington, too. So it can indulge in the building of electric Homer Mobiles and send the tab to us – and pocket the proceeds. Because keep in mind that GM is not losing money on the Volt. We are. The joke’s on us – again. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-06-2012, 05:00 PM	#6
phinno13 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 560 Senior Member	The VOLT would sell like wildfire if it wasn't for the pricetag. Halve it and they wouldn't be able to produce them fast enough. That is the SOLE issue with the volt (IMO) I have a 52 mile commute to work (there and back)...if I could do half of that commute w/o $4 gasoline...sign me up! My wife and I spend ~$350/month on gasoline. I have a V6 Chevy S10 and she has a V6 Ford 500 so no large SUVs or big trucks either. (S10 = 18mpg and 500 = 24MPG) I'm currently researching Compress Natural Gas (CNG) as an alternative to Gasoline. Honda makes the Civic GX that is CNG only (and from my research is $7k more then the regular Civic) and I would need to buy a $3,500 "home compressor" as there isn't a CNG fill station in the entire state of WV. so basically a $10-11k premium to be "free" of gasoline. According to my calculations I would get ~7.89 Gallons (Gas Equivalent) out of a MCF NG (Thousand Cubic Feet Natural Gas) for which I pay my gas company at $10/MCF. Or $1.26 per "gallon equivalent" + electricity to run the home compressor so maybe $1.80. According to my driving and costs I would save $1276/yr by driving with CNG @ $1.80 vs Gasoline at $3.80 or a ~8 years to make the difference to make CNG "pay off" In otherwords for my driving habits (even with a long commute) it just isn't worth it at todays current prices...even with ~$4 gasoline. Gotta find some way to get rid of the "premium" for using alternative fuels...even when the fuel itself is cheaper the payoff is just too far away... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-06-2012, 05:09 PM	#7
goolen4you Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 447 Senior Member	The VOLT would sell like wildfire if it wasn't for the pricetag. Halve it and they wouldn't be able to produce them fast enough. That is the SOLE issue with the volt (IMO) I have a 52 mile commute to work (there and back)...if I could do half of that commute w/o $4 gasoline...sign me up! My wife and I spend ~$350/month on gasoline. I have a V6 Chevy S10 and she has a V6 Ford 500 so no large SUVs or big trucks either. (S10 = 18mpg and 500 = 24MPG) I'm currently researching Compress Natural Gas (CNG) as an alternative to Gasoline. Honda makes the Civic GX that is CNG only (and from my research is $7k more then the regular Civic) and I would need to buy a $3,500 "home compressor" as there isn't a CNG fill station in the entire state of WV. so basically a $10-11k premium to be "free" of gasoline. According to my calculations I would get ~7.89 Gallons (Gas Equivalent) out of a MCF NG (Thousand Cubic Feet Natural Gas) for which I pay my gas company at $10/MCF. Or $1.26 per "gallon equivalent" + electricity to run the home compressor so maybe $1.80. According to my driving and costs I would save $1276/yr by driving with CNG @ $1.80 vs Gasoline at $3.80 or a ~8 years to make the difference to make CNG "pay off" In otherwords for my driving habits (even with a long commute) it just isn't worth it at todays current prices...even with ~$4 gasoline. Gotta find some way to get rid of the "premium" for using alternative fuels...even when the fuel itself is cheaper the payoff is just too far away... If it was only half the price it would sell like hot cakes! Sure, and if my Aunt had balls she'd be my Uncle. The point being that centrally planned enterprises fail because they usually make a product that no one needs or wants at twice the cost of a private enterprise and with cost overruns because of graft, payoffs, and no-bid sweetheart deals and contracts. Not only is it not worth the small savings; but you didn't factor in the increase in your fire insurance premiums and the copays on your skin grafts to repair severe third degree burns to your and your wife's bodies. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-06-2012, 05:09 PM	#8
Calluffence Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 450 Senior Member	if they really want to make tons of money, start making the 3 cylinder geo metro again. i had one new, it would do 40+ all day long. price them cheap at around $11,000 or so (just under what a kia rio sells for new), and you couldn't keep them on the lots at all. last time gas ran up over $4.00, there were people here taking out half page ads trying to find old ones to rebuild. why they aren't doing this stupifies me. they could probably even sell it sub $10,000 at this point. i had mine for 4 years without any problems at all. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-06-2012, 06:34 PM	#9
Promotiona Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 324 Senior Member	The VOLT would sell like wildfire if it wasn't for the pricetag. Which is why the whole project was an uneconomical misallocation of resources. If GM wasn't literally being paid by the government to build these things, they never would have been built. If it was the company's money at stake, they'd never build cars like these. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

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