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- - oil glutony? (http://www.discussworldissues.com/forums/general-discussion/203454-oil-glutony.html)

Thought I'd do a little math just to get my blood pressure up, so maybe someone else can tell me I'm wrong to keep from having a coronary.

1) From non-left wing websites (NOAA and other US Government agencies) the US consumes 20.59 million barrels of crude each day.

2) There are presently 4000+ active oil platforms (supposedly or theoretically supporting at least 1-5 oil wells, i.e. holes in the sea floor) just in US controlled offshore areas Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi.

The daily spill estimates of BP's present debacle has grown from 5000 barrels per day to over 100,000bpd. Present best guess is about 60,000bpd. For a HOLE THAT WAS MEANT TO BE CAPPED ANYWAY.

The daily production from any of the other 4000+ holes in the gulf is estimated at a minimum of 5000bpd, but most are producing 20,000bpd.

4000 X 5000=20millionbpd
4000 X 20,000 = 80millionbpd

Of the 20.5million bpd consumed, 11.75 mbpd are imported primarily form Canada, Mexico, Saudi, Venezuela. Theoretically this means that the US only produces 8.84mbpd from our own wells.

Now with all the blowing and going about energy independence, corporate welfare, wars in the middle east, destruction of the rain forest, the cost of oil, the cost of food when cap and trade is implemented, the loss of the small independent farmers, destruction of ocean ecosystem, the cost of solar technology..........

It seems pretty obvious that oil producers didn't learn basic math in grade school, or did I just sleep through it all myself.

Why are we punching all these holes in the gulf for nothing? http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...milies/sob.gif http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...milies/sob.gif http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...milies/sob.gif

Because for so many, the only important mathematics are those that will make them rich. They say that alternative energy sources are too costly, meaning it will take too long to make them rich. As a species, we're incredibly short sighted, perhaps because our lives are so short. Yet, it's not the planet we have to save, it's us. The planet will take care of itself as it has done for nearly 5 billion years, and without us. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...milies/mad.gif

You ask why? I have a list of answers (which may or may not be correct) http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...ies/tongue.gif

Pervasive corporate, political, and personal greed
Widespread corruption
Governmental nondisclosure of military fuel useage
Governmental buildup/maintainance of national oil reserves
Creative bookkeeping
Overpopulation
Rampant wastefulness
Lack of awareness and concern amongst the public
Steadily declining levels of education
An overabundance of gross misinformation regarding anything and everything imaginable spewing forth from the media and from corporate, political, religious, and special interest spin doctors, leaders and lobbyists in lieu of the facts, the truth and full disclosure

Most everyone has their own selfish agenda these days while benevolence, conscientousness, integrity and unfettered honesty have ended up discarded in the ditch of modern society. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...milies/eek.gif
I'm not feeling very optimistic about thingss these days. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...lies/frown.gif

There was an interesting program on TV not too long ago. It projected how the world would look incrementally in years/decades/centuries if humans were to suddenly disappear.

Meanwhile, we are not very good conservators of our world's resources. Too many people think god will take care of us.

I agree with you Lanmark. My question is really rhetorical, and based on a pretty similar cynicism.

Americans (and most people, look at the Amazon basin) only think in the short term!

I think that we are on the edge for a change. I have no idea if this change will be sudden or gradual, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. I do not really complain about the current situation, cause it represents of what we mostly are. We get the results of our actions no matter what. We need to change inside so that the outside changes too. I do not think there is any other way....

Dot, I saw this documentary too! Very interesting. There is also a Korean movie called " the way home" which indicates that actions are better than words. It is about how we can change inside as I stated above.....! I recommend it.

Thinking long-term, the underlying issue is overpopulation. The more people there are, the more energy will be consumed.

EVERYTHING you do consumes energy somewhere, whether that is in getting something to you, dealing with waste, etc. Something as seemingly innocuous as driving with lights on uses more fuel than does driving without them, and the same is true of driving at night versus daytime, as the air is denser, so provides more resistance. You gonna do anything about them?
Anything you do for alternative energy also has its impact on the environment. The huge windmill farm at Altamont Pass in California has created a downwind desert, as the windmills take energy out of the air - energy that would otherwise carry the moisture over the mountains into the valley.
Solar cells placed over the ground MUST have some other, so-far unknown impact upon the earth. Putting them on rooftops, where we have already done the deed, is a good alternative, but there will still be some impact.
Everything we do is a stop-gap measure to buy time; the true solution is population management, so that we stop increasing the overtaxation of all natural resources we are already doing.

[*]Everything we do is a stop-gap measure to buy time; the true solution is population management, so that we stop increasing the overtaxation of all natural resources we are already doing.[/list][/quote]

Lanmarks point number 6.

I totally aggree, noticing that every improvement in technology/increase in efficiency has always been met and exceeded by an increase in population.

I hope humans are as smart as we claim to be to do it the easy way rather than the hard way.http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...s/confused.gif

Ray's got part of the issue, too many people, but there are more effective ways of living than many populations are currently engaged in. If you compare consumption levels across the world it is obvious which populations are sucking up most of the good stuff, whether it be fuel, food, electricity and on down the road. Every known organism on earth is limited by a variety of factors, most of which depend on resource utilization. Humans have so far been able to overcome those limitations through new technologies, hence we've pushed our carrying capacity steadily higher. Likely we are near the true limit now. Blame agricultural advancements as the main culprit - and likely that is where the house of cards will eventually fall.

Biothanasis has the other end of the issue - human perception at its base level. Simply put, ideas like "this is mine", "I want more", "hand's off buddy", "you're not like me, therefore I'll fight you", etc., etc. are fueling the fires of our ultimate demise. These base reactions come out of our animal nature. When we lived in small nomadic groups it wasn't so much a problem likely, but as we settled down, accumulated a bunch of stuff (notably food stores), grew in numbers that had to be fed and protected, and so on (get a book on the development of civilizations if you don't know what I'm talking about), we started to get quite nasty and defensive at times. Just look at the 20th century if you don't believe we are a warring species. All that fighting, we each other and with every other living thing in the world, has to stop.

I can only picture two scenarios for this all to work out; one, a drastic drop in population world wide by some kind of dramatic event (likely famine coupled with disease if climate change gets bad enough) OR; a shift in basic human mentality with the focus on "me" to the focus on "everything IS me". It is hard to chop a person down when you see them as being an extension of your own being. In the end, that is the simple truth, much like the often said, "do unto others" idea. We have to extend that to all things though, not just people, the whole shebang. We need to FEEL that, not just give lip service to it, and then act on it (which will be easy if we feel it). Just a stupid dream? Maybe, but I think it's our only shot. Otherwise it will be more of the same until this world really can't stand our presence anymore.

So what do you think the root cause is of why we not only don't control population, we are opposed to controlling it? I have my own theory.

The traditional method is war and pestilence....both of which are actually tempered a bit over historical reference especially the scale of such things.

China can control their population because they don't have the constraints most of the rest of the world is bound by. Guesses anyone?