[Aleksis]

Cool thanks Julia, should give me ample time to soften up Maria. lol And thanks for the great link on the ball pythons.

[dAy2EWlg]

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[Aleksis]

Gilda - Hey i for one totally understand when I see a spider in my room it gets a shoe on it automatically.And you totally reminded me about ball pythons and how I want an albino mucho mucho. And I got to convince Maria today to let me have one when we get our own place . I had to give up the prospect of getting a crotch rocket bike though. Oh well. So long as I feed him/her when she aint around lol. I work in a somewhat small firm. Small enough to know everyone. And if im still at the firm, which I doubt, when the time comes I wanna bring it in and freak people out .

[weO1bVp1]

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[weO1bVp1]

I once saved a rattlesnake from my kidds and neighbors. I locked it up in a cooler in the house for safe keeping before I was going to drive it farther out for release. But my wife wouldn't let me keep it in the house for the evening.

I was kind of surprised since she worked with elephants, and they kill allot more zookeepers than snakes do!!

[Aleksis]

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[weO1bVp1]

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[Dwerfsd]

Captive bred Ball Pythons these days are pretty easy to feed, mine sometimes goes through a month or two before eating during breeding season, but he eats like clockwork every Friday besides that. He gets frozen/thawed small rats btw.

The thing to do is buy a snake that is captive bred and at least 6 or 7 months old, which has been raised on f/t rats or mice. It's important to ask as many questions as you can, my Rainbow Boa was 5 when I got her and had been raised on white f/t rats, so when she was offered spotted rats she didn't know what to do. It took her a year to get used to the patterned rats.

As a general rule never buy from pet store, they generally have problems with parasites. Try to buy from a breeder that cares. I've had good luck on the classifieds at kingsnake.com...

Good Luck!

[leijggigf]

Why did I have to look at that photo gallery?? Now I want a $7000 snake...and I thought my hobbies were expensive.

Jon

[johnuioyer]

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[P9CCd35R]

Live pinkies are illegal? Since when? I know some of the Petlands won't sell them, because customers complained..neither will Petco....1 of my 2 local petlands won't sell them, but the other one always sells them when they are available. Any of the private petshops that deal in herps (in Queens, Bob's Tropical, and Paradise Aquariums) always have live pinkies and rat pups on hand. I can't stand the frozen stuff...most of the time they are so deteriorated that they are "pinkie soup" by the time they defrost. Also, my last remaining albino corn hatchling refuses to eat frozen. I've never been a boa or python person...I much prefer corn snakes....mine are heterozygous for albinism or albino. Aside from my baby, I've never had a problem feeding frozen stuff to my snakes, but I prefer live...the frozen stuff is just too gross. My 2 kingsnakes, a grey banded and a black sonoran milksnake, both refuse dead mice...they will only eat live. Since the grey banded is small, I prefer rat pups..no risk of being bitten. My leopard geckoes have always refused pinkies. Too bad...an occasional pinkie is very good for them. Take care, Eric PS- If anyone is interested, I'll post a note the next time I breed my cornsnakes...I'll be happy to give away any extras. I'm not breeding them this year...they need a break.

[bixlewlyimila]

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[weO1bVp1]

All god's children have to eat. It's not a waste to feed something (or let it eat), but its a waste to kill something because its hungry.

I guess we could argue about the morality of whether you (a person) should put up a fight to protect yourself from getting eaten (by some other creature) versus saving some other creature that also doesn't want to be eaten that can't defend itself, versus killing the predator from depriving it of its sustanence.

I guess mashing the snake was like a mercy killing to keep it from a slow death of starvation.

Actually in this case the toad had a couple of defenses that it might have been able to use. They can infllate and they do have venom glands. From looking at the size of the two critters I don't think getting swallowed was a forgone conclusion. It would have been interesting to watch.

Pretty interesting how this has turned into a philisophical exercise.

I was just thinking should sex mimic orchids be eliminated from the ecosytem because they deprive polinators (or other mimiced plant species) the unobstructed ability to reproduce. There's really no doubt that these pollination schemes could be defined as a form of parasitism.

[P9CCd35R]

Well, the issue deals with purpose...if an animal is killed to feed another, there is a purpose to it. I would never kill an animal just to see it dead. Now, granted, in many respects I feel far more comfortable with my tortoises...its definitely easier on my family and my conscience to feed lettuce and dandelion...but I have the snakes, and it is my responsibility to feed them. The frozen stuff is dead already...the live stuff will be dead...so what is the difference? Maybe being frozen to death is less cruel than being eaten alive...i'll grant you that. But the larger snakes eat mice, and I kill them first...unpleasant, but its faster and less cruel than freezing (or suffocating with CO2...). I'm not thrilled with their feeding needs.....as much as I love snakes, I may eventually faze them out of my life.....(but they are easy to breed...) I also have cats. They are carnivores.....their food was killed...then processed. But because there is a great distance between my cats and their formerly living food, I don't notice it....my snakes bring me back to the same reality that applies to my cats....or my own dinner. Getting back to purpose: my objection was that I felt the killing was gratuitous. I love toads...in my younger years I have "rescued" toads that were being eaten by garter snakes...but without killing the snake. However, in the natural scheme of things, toads are a natural food of garters. And unlike the golden toad, now extinct, Bufo americanus and Bufo woodhousei fowleri are extremely abundant animals, with boom and bust population patterns. I have seen years when toad populations exploded to the point where it was impossible to walk down a street at night without stepping on them. Garter snakes are a natural population control, and good population controls actually ensure the health of the prey population. Now...am I encouraging people? Perhaps...although I doubt that substantial numbers of listmembers are rushing out to buy snakes and live pinkies...My objection is not to the death of an animal....as I said before, I am not into the whole "animal rights" attitude (well, I can say that I am a member of PETA...person who eats tasty animals...) and I am not sentimental. I just hate to see an animal killed for no valid reason. The first snake I ever saw was a garter snake...split in the head by a machete by a gardener. I've seen perfectly normal people go out of there way to stomp snakes into blood pudding...why? because it was a snake. I'm just not into purposeless killing. I see a mosquito in my house, I kill it...I see a spider in my house (and I have many...) I leave it alone. Besides, that spider may someday eat the mosquito....Take care, Eric

[frkksptn]

Funny this is still going.

I think it brings to light an important aspect of the whole thing. Most of the folks who frequent (and those who browse) the forum are PASSIONATE (aka addicted) about the natural world in many ways besides just orchids. We cant help it, its in our blood. Most of us have been this way since were kids. We love nature, animals and the natural world. Many of us have pets. Whether it be cats, fish, dogs, horses, reptiles, amphibians, birds, Madagascaran Hissing Cockroaches.....whatever.

I dont think anyones intention was to attack the poster of the pic. Unfortunately, the poster may not have realized just how passionate many of us are regarding something like that.

Maybe there should be a 'Nature Freak Crossing' sign posted at the sign-in page warning drivers to proceed with caution.

last comment as i slide off my soapbox. The "if you're squeamish...or a snake lover...DONT look!" is like saying, "dont think about purple elephants" Quit it, i said DONT!

[weO1bVp1]

OH OH

Too late

Now all I can think about is that puple elephant waiting for me down the hall

Actually I've played some practicle jokes using that psychological premise. It gets em every time.

[dAy2EWlg]

..

[Dwerfsd]

Garter snakes are also responsible for managing the rodent population as well as eating garden pests like slugs. Snakes are an important part of the eco system and in many areas, like my home town, garter snakes listed as endangered (we have Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia). For predator that makes a real impact bird, frog, & fish populations look no further then the house cat. Sorry for feeling the need to put in my $0.02, I don't like to see any animals die, especially when they are a native species, and a rapidly declining one due to human intervention.

[dAy2EWlg]

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[ligaliaCods]

Fair's fair, Gilda!