[!!!maryann!!!]

I just wonder why anyone would claim responsibility for that. Would anyone really want to join a terrorist organization that has so little ability, and even less self-respect?

As dedicated under-achiever, I would join in a heartbeat.

[ballingham]

Well, firstly, can you please cut the theater... let's not bring emotion into a discussion about something none of us know a lot about.

Secondly, it has now been reported that there were multiple propane tanks, as well as gasoline tanks in the vehicle, so based on the available information it may have been an actual bomb. Badly thought out (no real idea on how to trigger it), but a bomb nonetheless. Of course, this hinges on the concept that what is being reported has any correlation to fact. Not a conspiracy theory, just an observation that to get more attention our press is not above describing a spare fuel canister and a box of firecrackers as three tons of TNT and a weapon of mass destruction.

Describing the possible real effects on real people is theater and emotion? But downplaying the whole incident, or ascribing less than sterling motivations to the responders based on (as you admit) inadequate information is better?

I admit sometimes I am very dim. I just honestly don't get it.

Real people could have been seriously hurt or killed. As far as I can tell, that is pretty much the only actual fact in the thread.

[SweetCaroline]

Describing the possible real effects on real people is theater and emotion? But downplaying the whole incident, or ascribing less than sterling motivations to the responders based on (as you admit) inadequate information is better?

Of course I am downplaying it. What else can I do? I don't want to be afraid, and likewise don't feel like living in a total surveillance state for the sake of a marginal yield in security.

Thus I laugh when it appears that those who are ill intent, are also ill-prepared, and incompetent.

Real people could have been seriously hurt or killed. As far as I can tell, that is pretty much the only actual fact in the thread.

Real people get hurt in much more mundane situations on an everyday basis. Thousands of them... That's what keeps emergency rooms busy.

Let's not lose sight of actual risk is all I'm saying.

[imporrilk]

Papers are saying it happened cos of the South Park bear suit Muhammed incident, and the building it was parked outside of was Viacom.

[SweetCaroline]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/03/ny...3security.html

Hey, check this out - I am right yet again.

The Police Department has been planning a high-tech security network for Midtown Manhattan involving surveillance cameras, license plate readers and chemical sensors Lovely...

[Vjwkvkoy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/03/ny...3security.html

Hey, check this out - I am right yet again.



Lovely...

I was in DC yesterday before returning back home when I heard the news (well, read the Alert on my iPhone), and I literally said the exact same thing to my brother regarding an excuse to use advanced surveillance. Of course the Pakistani Al-Kaida is going to take credit for it to instill fear, which is painfully ironic given the fact that the "bomb" was put together in such a haphazard fashion. Come to think of it, what a glorious profession advanced surveillance and "anti terrorism" equipment vending would be in this country. After a horribly failed "underwear bomber," we now have multi-million dollar machines in airports that let us finally see women naked without them filing a rape charge.

[Zenunlild]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/03/ny...3security.html

Hey, check this out - I am right yet again.



Lovely...

Snoopy UK is totally ok with this because we have to stop the terrorists from killing people! OMG THE TERRORISTS!

I'm pretty sure more people die from being fat.

[BurdenRobert]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/03/ny...3security.html

Hey, check this out - I am right yet again.



Lovely...

I am sure the Dubai factor played/plays a major factor in this. I hate these camera's as much as you, yet the step by step video evidence in the Dubai assassination is unprecedented. Did any of that stop the assassination? No, of course not. But that doesn't stop security experts from wetting their pants in anticipation of getting a camera set up like this.

[viepedorlella]

And if it had gone off?

Then jokes would not be made.

[Fiesialenp]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/03/ny...3security.html

Hey, check this out - I am right yet again.



Lovely...

I can´t really say im to fond of being watched whilst somewhere outside,
on the other-side, how bad can this be ?
When in public places you´re constantly being watched/looked at by random people, atleast in this case, it´ll do some good ?

[Sopsneork]

I can´t really say im to fond of being watched whilst somewhere outside,
on the other-side, how bad can this be ?
When in public places you´re constantly being watched/looked at by random people, atleast in this case, it´ll do some good ?

Yeah, it will be a great help to the media companies. Obviously if something is going down, it's likely going to be too late to do anything. The news channels will cream themselves over the "moments before the attack" videos these systems will provide.

[Fiesialenp]

Yeah, it will be a great help to the media companies. Obviously if something is going down, it's likely going to be too late to do anything. The news channels will cream themselves over the "moments before the attack" videos these systems will provide.

From my understandings, these Cam´s have done a great job in the UK catching thieves (like purse snatchers) as well as dealing with cases of assaults and vandalism.

[SweetCaroline]

I can´t really say im to fond of being watched whilst somewhere outside,
on the other-side, how bad can this be ?
When in public places you´re constantly being watched/looked at by random people, atleast in this case, it´ll do some good ?

That's false logic.

Firstly... one of the key features of privacy, is the difficulty in collecting information. When Facebook first introduced their feed, people went nuts... and for a good reason - while all the information displayed was publicly available, it was never immediately parsed, classified, and available in one place.

Secondly... we are citizens, not criminals. We don't need to, and don't want to be, watched at all times.

Thirdly, it will NOT do ANY good AT ALL. Look up the stats for London's "ring of steel" camera system, and how much impact it's had on crime. Oh wait - it hasn't (normalize to the overall crime rate in England, otherwise you confound the results with trends). Hundreds of thousands of cameras, and no statistically significant effects on crime rate. But tons of people prosecuted for petty offenses.

Surveillance of public spaces by government is not about crime or terrorism prevention - any security expert knows it will do neither. It's about power - power of THEM over US.

In the highly technological world, total surveillance = absolute power.

[Sopsneork]

From my understandings, these Cam´s have done a great job in the UK catching thieves (like purse snatchers) as well as dealing with cases of assaults and vandalism.

It's all after the fact...

[Fiesialenp]

Well hey, fair enough
tbh im not bothered, nor do i think if there would be a voting would the majority.

[SweetCaroline]

Well hey, fair enough
tbh im not bothered, nor do i think if there would be a voting would the majority.

You are right, and that is why we will be slaves/drones before we know it. The complacency of the public will be the ultimate downfall of the great democracies of the West. 21st century will be the century when the iron fist that neither Stalin nor Hitler could have even dreamed of, will descend to crush any individuality still left after the rise of the internet, and a decade of reality television.

[Fiesialenp]

You are right, and that is why we will be slaves/drones before we know it. The complacency of the public will be the ultimate downfall of the great democracies of the West. 21st century will be the century when the iron fist that neither Stalin nor Hitler could have even dreamed of, will descend to crush any individuality still left after the rise of the internet, and a decade of reality television.

Ohh come on, you don´t really believe that do you ?
These systems aren´t being observed by some kind of deviant and malicious people just waiting for you or yours to fall out of line, just waiting to interrogate you.
These systems are being setup to create a higher level of awareness of what´s going on out there, to shorten response times and to generally make the streets that bit more safe.
Honestly, i think you´re just being a bit paranoid.

[SweetCaroline]

Ohh come on, you don´t really believe that do you ?
These systems aren´t being observed by some kind of deviant and malicious people just waiting for you or yours to fall out of line, just waiting to interrogate you.
These systems are being setup to create a higher level of awareness of what´s going on out there, to shorten response times and to generally make the streets that bit more safe.
Honestly, i think you´re just being a bit paranoid.

And I think that given the history of the country you live in, you should be a A LOT more wary of surveillance than you are now. Remember - it hasn't even been 25 years since the Stasi disbanded.

In military intelligence, nobody cares about intentions, only capabilities... because sooner or later they will be used. Apply the same thinking here - if you give PEOPLE (not government, but the clerks who run it), the power to know everything about you, you create the kind of a power inequality that is sufficient to create a totalitarian state with no further input.

[Fiesialenp]

And I think that given the history of the country you live in, you should be a A LOT more wary of surveillance than you are now. Remember - it hasn't even been 25 years since the Stasi disbanded.

In military intelligence, nobody cares about intentions, only capabilities... because sooner or later they will be used. Apply the same thinking here - if you give PEOPLE (not government, but the clerks who run it), the power to know everything about you, you create the kind of a power inequality that is sufficient to create a totalitarian state with no further input.

lol Stasi ?
I´m not from East Germany, nor have i ever been inflicted by the communists.
You are totally pulling this whole issue out of proportion !
We are talking about cam´s in public places, not about Stasi agents infiltrating groups of people with similar interests, nor infiltrating peoples homes, nor friends ratting others out. It´s just cameras in public places !
Would you feel the same about this if instead of a cam there would be a police officer on guard at said places 24/7 to obtain law and order ?
I think not.
Do these people that are observing the footage know everything about me ? hell no,..
Do they have any kind of power over me ? nope,..
Are they in any way or form disturbing my rights as a free citizen ? no again,..
What are they doing then ? Well the´re watching a tv screen observing if anything unusual is happening,..
nothing more nothing less.

I honestly thought you were smarter than this Gnius, but your opinions on this matter go hand in hand with those of so many other conspiracy nuts,..

[eCw56dzY]

gnius is absolutely right golem. you ever read 1984? its pretty much inevitable anyways.
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