[beckercpa]

Diesel

Yeah I lol'd when it was said diesel isn't easily available in the Mid West! I've never been to the Mid West, but considering most farm equipement and all large trucks use diesel I found it hard to believe.

[Nypbscao]

bigger for obvious reasons? please elaborate.

A small diesel 4 cylinder offers v8 like torque, and great fuel economy. Diesel engines are NOT available in america in anything approaching what I wanted.
Not everyone wants a penis extension... I needed a work truck, not a toy.

Hilux was never offered in America... their equivalent was the tacoma which was offered petrol only

I would consider the raptor as a "toy".. similar to a bowler... It's a luxury for those who can afford it, but it will never be "practical"

really if you can't figure out why we might have bigger vehicles over here then this is not a disussion im interested in pursuing.

good day to you sir.

[Aafimoq]

really if you can't figure out why we might have bigger vehicles over here then this is not a disussion im interested in pursuing.

good day to you sir.

Because WE CAN!

[beloveds]

You have to be crazy to think a Range Rover would do better off road. I mean it, totally crazy.

You've got to be crazy if you don't - even with the road tyres, they're darned good - bolt on some offroad wheels/tyres and you'd be amazed just how good they really are - same with the LandCruisers - just because the soccer moms are driving them and never get the tyres dirty doesn't mean they aren't very good offroad - heck, with some decent tyres the Sport would piss all over that Ford - but for the money, few things, I expect, would come close to that beasty!

Personally, if I had the money, I think the Ford would be a fun 3rd or 4th vehicle but if given the choice, the RR all the way.
Funny thing is, the Ford may even be more economical [rolleyes]

[edit] Check out some of the "Camel Trophy" videos.

[favwebbb]

I
What is wrong with leaf springs? The Ram does use coils yes, but it still doesn't perform like the leaf springs on the F-150. The coils might give a more comfy ride, yes, but towing went down 500lbs for one, while the F-150 actually went up recently to 11,000lbs. Plus in tests, the leafs still do better.
I am sure that a proper coil could do just as good, if not better, though the sad thing is, the Ram with the coils kind of went a step backwards compared to what they used to offer. In the comfort deparment though, they went a step forward.


Though there is nothing wrong with leaf springs. Hell, the Corvette still uses leaf springs and whips some a$$ with them as well.

Theres nothing wrong with leaf suspension for offroad, i think some people are forgetting that when you do true offroading you want a BALANCE between simplicity and technology.
Personally i disagree with those who say that a 60's Defender or 70s landcruiser are the best offroad, because the new tech does help make your life easier...but obviously you dont want something so complicated that if it breaks you have no chance of repairing it outside of a dealership.

Sure people love to claim the Range Rover is the best because they see some adverts and TV progs where its climbing up mountains in controlled environments, sure it has some great tech and is more rugged than it looks, but it wouldnt be on my list of cars to use for serious offroading...i dont think ive EVER seen one doing real offroading. Usually youll see older Range Rovers on the beaten path but never the newer ones.
You need to ask yourself in all these shows has the Range Rover ever taken damage ? No because they dont and wont show it, and one of the major factors of of a good 4x4 is how well it can keep going despite taking some damage, even the best offroad drivers make mistakes so you want you vehicle to keep going if you do make some.

[drexigordiche]

Theres nothing wrong with leaf suspension for offroad, i think some people are forgetting that when you do true offroading you want a BALANCE between simplicity and technology.
Personally i disagree with those who say that a 60's Defender or 70s landcruiser are the best offroad, because the new tech does help make your life easier...but obviously you dont want something so complicated that if it breaks you have no chance of repairing it outside of a dealership.

Sure people love to claim the Range Rover is the best because they see some adverts and TV progs where its climbing up mountains in controlled environments, sure it has some great tech and is more rugged than it looks, but it wouldnt be on my list of cars to use for serious offroading...i dont think ive EVER seen one doing real offroading. Usually youll see older Range Rovers on the beaten path but never the newer ones.
You need to ask yourself in all these shows has the Range Rover ever taken damage ? No because they dont and wont show it, and one of the major factors of of a good 4x4 is how well it can keep going despite taking some damage, even the best offroad drivers make mistakes so you want you vehicle to keep going if you do make some.

The Range Rover Sport going through hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wKfpPrRVIo

[favwebbb]

The Range Rover Sport going through hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wKfpPrRVIo

Ive seen that before, ive also seen where they climb some grassy mountain with one (proper Range Rover) and where they race up a sandy one against an H2 and a Escalade (LOL fair competition for a Range Rover ?!).

If you think thats serious offroad then i suggest you go see some real offroading competitions on a sports TV channel rather than top gear.

A Subaru forester or Honda CRV would handle that "tank course" just as easily yet those arent proper 4x4s.
Lets see how a Range Rover Sport Handles a rocky terrain or a manages to keep going after it takes a tumble.
Ive seen i Mitsubishi Pajero roll off a steep banked incline and still able to continue the course. I severly doubt the Range Rover Sport would be able to do that..
The Sport is basically a GT car in a 4x4 shell, it has some of the same features as a proper Range Rover but your fooling only yourself if you think its an offroader.
Yet ironically it would be nowhere near as good as a proper GT car like a Merc E63, BMW M5 or Porsche Panemera, nor is it going to be as good as proper offroader like a LandCruiser 100, Nissan Patrol or Defender.
Its just a pointless "crossover" car for the European version of the Hummer H2 driver.

[beloveds]

Theres nothing wrong with leaf suspension for offroad, i think some people are forgetting that when you do true offroading you want a BALANCE between simplicity and technology.
Personally i disagree with those who say that a 60's Defender or 70s landcruiser are the best offroad, because the new tech does help make your life easier...but obviously you dont want something so complicated that if it breaks you have no chance of repairing it outside of a dealership.

Sure people love to claim the Range Rover is the best because they see some adverts and TV progs where its climbing up mountains in controlled environments, sure it has some great tech and is more rugged than it looks, but it wouldnt be on my list of cars to use for serious offroading...i dont think ive EVER seen one doing real offroading. Usually youll see older Range Rovers on the beaten path but never the newer ones.
You need to ask yourself in all these shows has the Range Rover ever taken damage ? No because they dont and wont show it, and one of the major factors of of a good 4x4 is how well it can keep going despite taking some damage, even the best offroad drivers make mistakes so you want you vehicle to keep going if you do make some.

Got to agree with you about the springs - the modern coil setups actually are allowing MORE articulation as they have more travel.
Leaf springs are cheap and relatively easy to repair BUT they're also used for locating the axle and if you break one it can totally spoil your day.
It would be interesting taking a selection of the modern 4 wheel drive vehicles and seeing how they got on along the Oregon Trail (I think that's the one used by JEEP for their publicity shots, etc).
The TG clip of the 'Sport on the tank proving range doesn't, IMO, mean that much - sand, rock trails, deep water, etc, would be more interesting - any footage of them on the Camel Trophy - or did they finish before the Sport's release?

[drexigordiche]

Range Rover Sport going over Lion's Back in Utah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eNxry8OgxU

[beckercpa]

Range Rover Sport going over Lion's Back in Utah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eNxry8OgxU

That wasn't a tough 4WD track

Hell my rwd car could do that, and it's certainly nothing a subaru forester couldn't do.

[beloveds]

And that's the 'soft' off roader - got to amend my previous post, that TG bit was on road tyres - still did darned well on the muddy inclines.
Seems to be heaps of offroad footage for the RRs, going to watch some now. [thumbup]

This guy is INSANE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Nfvr4iWeQ&NR=1

[beloveds]

That wasn't a tough 4WD track

Hell my rwd car could do that, and it's certainly nothing a subaru forester couldn't do.

You haven't seen it from the side, have you? Over 45 degrees in places and it needs decent articulation as it's quite uneven.
There's a clip somewhere of a vehicle that had it's brake line caught and snapped at the top - VERY scary but fortunately no-one seriously hurt.
Here's one, at least.
http://broadbandsports.com/node/13408

[beckercpa]

45 degrees? looked more like 35 in that video. I'll take your word for it though. It looks about the same incline as the track I take my quad bike up, and my brother in-law goes up in his holden Rodeo. First time we went up a few pens came out of the dash that had been stuck their for a few years!

But unlike the track at the back at my house that has very loose gravel, I still think my rwd car with LSD could tackle that hill in the video, afterall grip looked good, no big ruts, and given the steep incline all the weight is on the driven wheels.

Edit, those in the runaway 4wd where lucky! Would have hurt though!

[drexigordiche]

45 degrees? looked more like 35 in that video. I'll take your word for it though. It looks about the same incline as the track I take my quad bike up, and my brother in-law goes up in his holden Rodeo. First time we went up a few pens came out of the dash that had been stuck their for a few years!

But unlike the track at the back at my house that has very loose gravel, I still think my rwd car with LSD could tackle that hill in the video, afterall grip looked good, no big ruts, and given the steep incline all the weight is on the driven wheels.

It's the Lions back in Utah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion%27s_Back

25 to 65 degree incline, when you get to the top you turn around and go back down.

[favwebbb]

You haven't seen it from the side, have you? Over 45 degrees in places and it needs decent articulation as it's quite uneven.
There's a clip somewhere of a vehicle that had it's brake line caught and snapped at the top - VERY scary but fortunately no-one seriously hurt.
Here's one, at least.
http://broadbandsports.com/node/13408

Doesnt seem too tough to me, straight up incline, no banking and there seems to be 4 wheel contact all the way to the top. Surface seems pretty hard and stable too. Also no points where approach and departure clearance would be an issue.
Id say with the right tyres and engine output most soft roaders will be able to go up that without the need for low range.

Theres lots of tougher off road courses which are steeply banked with mixtures of soft and hard surfaces and turns in tight spots, we have some here in SA, i know theres some forest ones in the US that are quite tough but i dont know the names.

Honestly nothing that you guys are showing prove anything other than the fact that the Range Rover Sport can do what other average 4x4 SUVs have been doing for years, yet it costs a ton more and cannot compete with the hardcore 4x4s since it was never designed to anyway.
As i said, its a pointless vehicle...i bet a much cheaper Discovery 3/4 (and Ford F150) will make easy work of that hill as well with its normal profile tyres.
So other than maybe a status thing ...i dont see the point of the Range Rover Sport...unless youre a drug dealer, rapper or a footballer.
If you want a fast GT there are many better cars at the price, if you want a better offroader there are many better vehicles that actually cost less and are more capable.

Also the RR Sports suspension is heavily tuned for road use and better road handling, no matter what any marketing monkey at land rover tells you, you cannot tune a vehicle for sports handling and expect it to be good offroad, its an engineering trade-off and requires much different suspension characteristics.

[beloveds]

Hahaha, you're missing the point.
I was posting those clips to rebut a claim that they were no longer much good off road.
If you think a softroader in high ratio (assuming they had one) can handle a 65 degree incline, let alone a two wheel drive, you've been smoking too much dope - whilst I've taken two wheel drive CARS some places people have had trouble with four wheel drive vehicles, there's NO WAY I'd even look at taking one up some of those inclines.

I agree, though, that the Sport seems to be an oddity in that it seems distinctly aimed at the urban owner who wants the idea that his, or her, car can handle anything while still being a fast road car, have a heap of room and be good heading for the ski slopes or towing the horse box over grassy fields - it's also got good visability for the women to see over other vehicles.
I would aslo agree that things like a supple, long travel suspension and good articulation with a good ground clearance are in direct conflict with the requirments for a road car.

[Sheefeadalfuh]

The Range Rover Sport going through hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wKfpPrRVIo

Wow that is the weakest, least technical course I've ever seen to prove a 4x4's capability. I go up and down stuff that is so much gnarlier than that in my freakin Mitsubishi Montero.

[Metrujectiktus]

I've already stated I love the Ford but for the people that think the Range Rover is not a class leading off roader... WAKE UP!!!!!!


The only worries it has offroad are the standard road tires and it's price.

Find me a review that says Range Rovers can't do it and are not one of the best,
but for what they cost I'd expect that.

[Blaxastij]

It's the Lions back in Utah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion%27s_Back

25 to 65 degree incline, when you get to the top you turn around and go back down.

Hummers doing it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62SSbnP887A

[JetePlentuara]

range rover vs road tires http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ShJZnH3flQ [help]

not to mention that in the US if you want a range rover you need one job to buy it and another to maintain it. My aunt and uncle bought one about 7 years ago and sold it for a loss after it broke the 4th or 5th time. Ended up with a CRV which is still running great and never been a problem.