[chppjdf]

Hey, why d'you have a Christmas avatar already? Or did you just never change it from last year?

On-topic, what constitutes a "realist" approach? Come to think of it, has anyone ever come up with a meaningful definition of "neoconservative?"

[glazgoR@]

So...a neorealist would believe in advancing the realist cause by invading Modern Art museums, or bombing Madrid to punish Spain for producing Picasso?

[capeAngedlelp]

Originally posted by Elok
Hey, why d'you have a Christmas avatar already? Or did you just never change it from last year? Never changed it. I'm a lazy bastard

On-topic, what constitutes a "realist" approach? Come to think of it, has anyone ever come up with a meaningful definition of "neoconservative?" The article was mainly about foreign policy, so understood neocons mainly as those which favor active "democracy-export", even by military means. I'm sure you can find other points when looking for a more specific definition, but the article was not going that far.

Foreign policy wise realism wouldn't care that much about idealistic stuff like democratization (although neocons would argue that being in the US national interests), but more about what works best for keeping/improving the position of the US within the international system, if it promotes worldwide democracy or not is then secondary.

[hereiamguy]

Originally posted by Elok

On-topic, what constitutes a "realist" approach? Come to think of it, has anyone ever come up with a meaningful definition of "neoconservative?" Realist = Kissinger, Bismark, etc. Realpolitik basically

[Xewksghy]

Whatever you say, "realpolitic."

[emupsMaispubs]

Originally posted by Thedrin


* I'm not a neoconservative. But you play one on television.

[weaddercaps]

Originally posted by Thedrin
Once the decision to invade was made it was the execution, not the ideology, which was the primary cause of this fine mess*. Hm, that's pretty much debatable because it says the execution could have gone much (and decisively) better. But it's very difficult to say what strategy exactly could have led to a better outcome and if the original goal to bring democracy (that is comparable to western standards) wasn't out of reach from the start (something many critics said). If a better strategy was known - wouldn't they have implemented it?

[8jIDXQ80]

Originally posted by Thedrin
The neoconservatives won't look at Iraq as an arguement against their political philosophy but I suspect they might want Rumsfeld's head on a platter. Not just neocons.

[vosteglog]

I certainly do think Iraq has undermined the neocon notion that US military power can be used in a transformative manner. What those thinkers failed to realize is that military force can destroy the status quo just fine, but by itself it can play only a secondary role in building something new.

This admin was both the only one that would act on neocon notions but probably the least capable of making anything out of the ideology.

[JewJoleSole]

We shoulda turned the occupation/reconstruction planning over to the Brits. As it was, there doesn't appear to have been any such planning, which is criminal.

-Arrian

[Zugaxxsn]

Worked, dinnut?

[Unlopssesuj]

The Brits appear to have learnt and adapted, and at least they *thought* about what to do once the war part was over.

I'm not saying it would've necessarily led to success. I'm just saying it likely would've been better.

-Arrian

[slowlexrese]

I think neoconservatism is representative of a durable strain of thought within US foreign policy. I doubt Iraq will have much long-term impact on its adherents.

On the other hand, it's not surprising to me that a German publication would pronounce its death. There's a Wilsonian string of thoughts that lead to neoconservative conclusions. That string of thoughts has few analogs in Germany, or continental Europe generally.

[strollerssfsfs]

Originally posted by DanS
I think neoconservatism is representative of a durable strain of thought within US foreign policy. I doubt Iraq will have much long-term impact on its adherents.

On the other hand, it's not surprising to me that a German publication would pronounce its death. There's a Wilsonian string of thoughts that lead to neoconservative conclusions. That string of thoughts has few analogs in Germany, or continental Europe generally. Germany has a long tradition of idealism, just take Kant et al. For example the league of nations, product of Wilson's work, was founded mainly on Kantian ideas.

[casinobonusese]

I'd say for a long time after WWII there was rather too much idealism in German foreign policy - so yes. Although that doesn't mean it's necessarily the neocon type of idealism.