[agildeta]

I disagree with [1].

JM

[swoluelvede]

I think Communism is essentially a religion. People believe its principles are true despite all evidence to the contrary.

[VowJoyday]

I think people aren't good or bad and the evidence is that most people will end up committing horrendous atrocities if they end up being part of a group which is committing atrocities. It doesn't really matter if the 'group' is religious or not. What is unhelpful is where one group describes everyone of another group as inherently wrong/bad/evil and this has happened with some religious groups in the past and with some non-religious groups too.

[hLabXZlK]

I think Communism is essentially a religion. People believe its principles are true despite all evidence to the contrary. And they have official scriptures and prophets too. Lenin, Marx, Engels, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao.

[Garry Hovard]

That kind of moronic talk makes me realise how embarrassed sensible religious people must be by their religion's nutcases.

[eladiopsislab]

As with Jon Miller, I think point 1 is where Weinberg's argument falls apart. I also agree with Mike that good people will end up committing or going along with atrocities if "everyone else is doing it" (for example, I don't think everyone in Germany was evil during the 1940s - though I could be wrong on that).

[VFOVkZBj]

Like my Lord and Savior, I shall bear the loss so y'all don't have to

[Brewpralgar]

That's true of most politics. Whether we have a Democrat or Republican isn't a religious question. But Democrats and Republicans promise real world pork, not la-la land Communism. To me it's the promise of a vaguely better life to come that makes Communism religious. It's dogmatic, reliant on prophecy by dead writers, and it promises a better life based on their writings. Communism isn't about getting better schools, or locking up more dark people, it's about a magical explosion of awesomeness sometime in the future, after all the right conditions have been met.

[nickayary]

I think a sufficiently reductionist point of view can make anything look religious. Modern Republicans worship Ronald Reagan, seek a return to the lost paradise of low taxes and minimal government, worship the Constitution as laid out by our Founding Fathers, etc. I'm not sure how useful such a point of view is.

Bingo.

[Foucceedo]

Didn't Ann Coulter write a book about liberalism being a religion? I guess claiming something is a religion is a fun way to pretend you have arrived at an insight when you're really just a boring, partisan hack.

Paging Felch.

[HexcewlyRette]

That kind of moronic talk makes me realise how embarrassed sensible religious people must be by their religion's nutcases.

Yeah if there's such thing as a fundamentalist atheist he's it.

That's pretty dumb. You give religion a free pass but those darn commies are just evil right?

Some Margaret Thatcher supporter you are. Yes, Communism is inherently evil.

[Peterli]

I think a sufficiently reductionist point of view can make anything look religious. Modern Republicans worship Ronald Reagan, seek a return to the lost paradise of low taxes and minimal government, worship the Constitution as laid out by our Founding Fathers, etc. I'm not sure how useful such a point of view is.

Some Republicans are cultish retards, but most are just paranoid old white men. Communism is all about the promise of a paradise on earth, and the inevitability of that paradise. It's simply religion without a god, one that relies on class conflict and economics as the supernatural process that leads to the ultimate and inevitable triumph.

[nickayary]

Ideologies can become defacto religions.

[juspimoubbodo]

Ideologies can become defacto religions.

The amazingly polarised nature of American politics is very stange. 'cause they agree on most things.

[flueftArete]

The amazingly polarised nature of American politics is very stange. 'cause they agree on most things.

It's because they agree on most things that it becomes polarized. Sounds counter-intuitive, but the parties have to distinguish between themselves and since on policy there are only really slight differences, they have to hammer home those differences and WHY those differences should matter so much.

[thighikergove]

Someone should remind the GOP of that.

[NKUDirectory]

Well, the Stanford Prison experiment as well as the Milgram experiment show us, that it takes little to get "normal" people to do evil.

It just takes the positive acceptance of "evil deeds" in your peer group (i.e. getting reinforcing feedback when you do things that normally would be considered evil) and of course superiors that order you to do things that can be considered to be evil.

A thing in which communism and religion aren´t far apart...
peer group that might give you positive feedback for doing bad things:
Radical Brothers in faith (that condone atrocities against infidels) or fellow crusaders / inquisitors for religions
vs. comrades in party and/or red army for communism.

Superiors who could/would order you to commit atrocities/do bad things:
Preachers of your religions / higher ups within the church hierarchy (religion) vs.
Commanders within the read army/the "beloved leader" himself/higher ups within the party (Communism)

Not to forget that both, religion as well as communism often have a strong cult regarding a leader figure ...
be it the "beloved leader" (like Stalin, Castro or one of the north Korean Kims)
or one of the prophets/founders (or highest ranking still living preachers) of the religion
to which the ordinary believer/follower builds up a high affection (and therefore is very eager to place lots of thrust into this figure [and also very eager to give up thinking as soon as he gets orders that are giving by this leader figure (either directly or via lower ranking mediators)])