[MegaJIT]

An asteroid headed for Earth, big enough to destroy all life and too big to destroy, seen coming with plenty of time. That's the most feasible scenario to overcome the political difficulties under our current understanding of physics, IIUC. Ask Lori or somebody about the scientific difficulties, but I think they're beside the point.

[/killjoy]

[drugsprevi]

Well, assuming AC's got a viable planet on it, that's...Wiki says it's four light years, if I'm reading it right. That's a couple of decades for people to spend on a ship just waiting for the thing to get there. Even with relativistic whatchamas, that's a considerable amount of one's life to sacrifice. I imagine we'd have to send a probe first just to know if the planet's viable, and the combined times mean the colonization of AC won't happen in either of our lifetimes unless we make some major longevity-boosting discoveries or revolutionize our understanding of physics. Or both.

With the nearest hope so far away, any colony will be effectively cut off from Earth. The expense and time required to reach it will make any commercial enterprise implausible; I don't think any known resource, in any concentration, would be worth such investment. It would take four years and more just to send a message, then another four to get a reply. As far as our planet is concerned, the people sent to AC would no longer exist. And that's why I'm pretty sure it won't happen; it's a massive, long-term investment that will produce nothing to benefit the investor beyond the satisfaction that human beings will exist somewhere so far away it boggles our comprehension. We managed to gin up the cash to land people on the moon, but that's a pitifully minor accomplishment by comparison, only took ten or so years to plan and about a week to accomplish, and we can actually see the celestial body we landed on with the naked eye. Despite that, we lost our enthusiasm for it quickly.

A more interesting idea, to me, is underwater cities. The technological and political barriers are far lower, the environment is far more viable, and it might even be cost-effective under the right circumstances.

[jamisi]

Screw that, I'm with Lal--"the sane, emotionally balanced person's choice."

[estelle]

Actually, Elok, it would take significatly longer to get to AC than a couple of decades. The fastest spaceship to date was Helios, and it went upwards of 150,000 MPH. Going that fast the trip to AC would take over 170,000 years. Whatever ship goes to AC, would have to go significantly faster for it to be even a remote possibility.

I also think you are on to something about the economic returns on the trip. While the actually colony and ship would have no monetary return, the technologies gained in trying to get there could be exploited for profit (simlar to how some aspects of the movie Contact went). So one of the economic questions would be: Could companies get a profit out of the techs needed to go to AC?

Underwater cities are a great idea! So great, you should go start your own thread!

[AnIInWon]

Did he address the increase in the mass (and the consequent increase in power required to maintain constant G) as the ship approaches c?

[ToifvT5S]

Glad you mentioned Niven and the known space universe. That happens to be my favorite. Now aside from stepping disks and the FTL travel, Niven has a tendancy to to stick to Hard Sci-Fi. The early space exploration in the Known Space books, was done with Bussard Ramjets (the idea that if you are going fast enough already, you can collect enough hydrogen in interstellar space to fuel your engine). I believe that this type of engine is actually possible, but we just haven't developed the tech yet. Any of our physists out there know the feasabilities of a Bussard Ramjet?

[Diortarkivoff]

I was assuming we would just accelerate like a mofo with ion drives or something. I'm no scientist.

[viagradiscounttt]

I was assuming we would just accelerate like a mofo with ion drives or something. I'm no scientist.

According to the ancient flight simulators I used to play, humans black out at 9 G's of acceleration, at at some point beyond that their organs probably start to implode

[Clolmemaexata]

Another aspect of the Revelation Space spaceships is that they had carbon nanotube nosecones, since the interstellar medium gets very soupy if you're traveling at .99c

[rbVmVlQ2]

In "The Rediscovery Of Man" series (which tracks the progression from low-tech to high-tech/magic-tech), at one point they use solar sails powered with lasers based on Pluto so that the ship can continue to accelerate beyond the solar system. I forget if the author addressed deceleration.

[ONLINEPHARMACYCHEAPILLS]

Seeing as the ship is going to have to colonize a planet at AC (or obviously one of the stars there) rather than just smash into it, deceleration is going to be just as big of an issue as acceleration. Because of this, I don't think solar sails are practical.

[TughEmotteTug]

Screw that, I'm with Lal--"the sane, emotionally balanced person's choice."

YOU ARE MY ENEMY NOW.

[Speareerfug]

(Guynemer-Seething)

VENDETTA UPON YOU.

[DianaDrk]

Here's a continuous-thrust travel time calculator.

Doesn't help you with the underlying mechanics, but really, nobody can help with that.

[Chooriwrocaey]

I figured you'd be Corazon's *****.

Knowledge? There only one true path of knowledge, and that path is owned by the University of Planet!

SCIENCE!!!

Spartans with that government makes them rich (+2 economy), advanced (+2 research), with a large and elite military (+2 morale, +2 support). You have -1 efficiency and -1 industry but I think those costs are more than made up for by the additional wealth from economy and what you save with the support.

Lots of ecological destruction, though, and you're prone to probes but ehh whatever.

[Kamendoriks]

Spartans with that government makes them rich (+2 economy), advanced (+2 research), with a large and elite military (+2 morale, +2 support). You have -1 efficiency and -1 industry but I think those costs are more than made up for by the additional wealth from economy and what you save with the support.

Lots of ecological destruction, though, and you're prone to probes but ehh whatever.

Support is the red-headed stepchild of SE factors. Unless it's very high or very low, all each level does is give or take away a fraction of a mine-crawler per base. So the only thing police state is doing there is helping counterbalance FM's giant police penalty, and it's hurting your efficiency to do it. Doesn't seem optimal. I barely ever play Santiago because I'd rather build, but plain old DemoPlan sounds like it has as much to offer. Big big growth, your industry penalty is neutralized and all you lose is that POS Support. Oh noes, not one-sixth of a single borehole's output! If you wanna do FM, do it in peacetime, match it with Democracy so you're getting top dollar in all cities and you can tinker with the sliders, and switch out to something more vicious when vendetta rolls around.

[WaicurtaitfuT]

Nice calulator.

However, I pluged in the distance to AC and it spit back a max velocity of 645,213 KM/S which is more than twice the speed of light rendering it almost useless.

That's still useful, it tells you that you need to coast at some point, or settle on some lower acceleration.

[hapasaparaz]

The article of the '10 year long Civ II game' and recent personal Civ games where I make it my goal to win via Spacerace, has got me thinking: What would it take/How would we get a colony on a habital exoplanet?

For the sake of this particular argument, we'll go with the assumption that suspended animation is not feasable.

To start with, one would have to make an automated spaceship without people to test getting close to the speed of light with some bacteria on board, see how that goes, learn something new and back to the drawing board.

[alicewong]

When it happens, I'm joining the Gaians, because I want those creepy ****ing worms on my side. Screw that, I'm with Lal--"the sane, emotionally balanced person's choice." I only ever played with the Spartan Federation. Free Market, Police State, Knowledge is the way to roll. Knowledge? There only one true path of knowledge, and that path is owned by the University of Planet!

SCIENCE!!! Bunch of Racists CEO Nwabudike Morgan

For the record was it just me or was Lal always the one that dropped planet busters first (even before Yang). So much for sane and emotionally balanced.

[soyclocky]

For the record was it just me or was Lal always the one that dropped planet busters first (even before Yang). So much for sane and emotionally balanced.

Yes, but he destroyed those bases and the very ground/water they stood on for purely humanitarian reasons. Look, you've got a tyrant, a fanatic, an unhinged plutocrat, a John Bircher gun nut, a scientist who's excessively fond of human trials and an ecoterrorist who starts wars over energy-inefficient light bulbs (and uses psychoactive biological weapons to do it--for some reason those were left out of the UN charter on atrocities). Lal's the good guy. Look how happy and high-condition his people are.