[SteantyjetMaw]

Our course is an older, traditional layout so the greens were made for the much slower grasses back then so our greens have lots of undulation. As a result, every day there are a few holes with extreme breaks or slopes if you are in the wrong position on that green. It is a pretty good rule of thumb on any course to "stay below the hole."

One of my favorite course I have played anywhere is an old course in Massachusetts, Taconic, which I loved and some of the greens there were very severe. Those greens didn't detract from the course, rather, they added to the experience.

So, sometimes the severe greens are because modern grasses can be mowed much closer than when the course was first designed. I'm a fan of most old courses so I will just enjoy their greens as they are, don't want to mess with history.

[cialviagra]

I don't mind tough placements or greens that force you to be precise. I'm rarely precise and I'm not a great putter, but I do think it's something that adds another element to the experience. It makes it that much more rewarding when I actually do make that one putt or even a two putt on certain holes at my course.

I understand there is a difference between unfair and challenging though.

[wCYvMKAc]

Hole 8 on my course is a relatively easy par 5, but there is one pin placement on the green which makes it obnoxiously difficult. It is in the front right, and if you go long, even by a foot, you are dead. You just tap the ball and if it doesn't hit the hole, it rolls off the front of the green and into the Bunker. I have gotten a 12 on that hole before. If it's in the back, it is a birdie hole however

Tappin!

[scoussysows]

It's okay to have a tough hole location, even one that makes a one-putt near impossible. What shouldn't happen is a putt that just misses (in terms of both direction and speed) turns into a three+putt. And what I really hate is an uphill putt that can barely miss the hole, and then roll back past you twice as far as you started. That's for courses with windmills on the greens.

[scoussysows]

I used to work at a golf course in Alabama, and one Sunday a few players were coming in and complaining about the hole location on #16. The complaint was that the hole was too close to a slope, and if you hit the ball hole high but to the right, your putt would either catch the slope and roll several feet away from the hole, or else stay above the hole and leave you with a very tricky downhill putt for your second. One of the pros drove out to the green with the whining club members, and proceeded to sink 3 straight putts from each spot everyone said was "impossible". Surprisingly, this did not stop the complaining.

Not sure that would have shut me up, either. In that situation, what I would want to see is the pro intentionally just miss the hole, but still be left with a reasonable putt. I've been to mini-golf courses that have a volcano-shaped hole -- a perfectly struck ball will drop, but a "just missed it" is no better than missing by a mile. I don't think that's fair on a regular golf course. But hey, I also believe "golf is not a game of perfect."

[Clielldub]

It's okay to have a tough hole location, even one that makes a one-putt near impossible. What shouldn't happen is a putt that just misses (in terms of both direction and speed) turns into a three+putt. And what I really hate is an uphill putt that can barely miss the hole, and then roll back past you twice as far as you started. That's for courses with windmills on the greens.

These are my thoughts exactly. .... We have had tournaments on our course where there have been 5, groups backed up on a par 3 due to pin position.. Nothing more fun than a 6 hour round..

[Shemker394]

Awesome link to the usga site. I had always thought it was 2 paces; 4 paces means the guys at my course regularly put them in unfair positions. As for the 4ft around the hole being uniform, I think that's fair if you keep in mind a slight slope is still uniform. My course has 4 greens where in certain positions being anywhere but below the hole nearly guarantees a 3+ putt. And our greens are never fast. I don't mind that though, because it just means you need to make a good shot in or are penalized. The only one that bothers me is one par 3 green where you have to carry 170 minimum to carry a deep bunker, but if you don't land and stick when the hole is at the front, you are going to be lucky to stay on the green with your first putt b/c it's guaranteed to be a big looping downhiller. The smart play is to lay up and pitch on, but of course nobody but women and seniors ever do it lol.

[sFs4aOok]

The only issue I have is when it's on an extreme side hill of in the middle of the false front. Around here I find you get the tougher placements during the week and the easy middle of the green placements on the weekend. It's set up like that to try and speed people up on the greens.

[Blahhhshsh]

The USGA does provide guidelines for hole locations, particularly for tournaments, but there are no set rules. http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_a...dx=143&Rule=16 We have at least one course here in Atlanta that has very slick, hilly greens and is notorious for disregarding these guidelines.

The USGA suggests holes should be at least four paces from the edge of greens, and further if there is a bunker or steep slope nearby. This course often places holes within two feet of the fringe. Also, holes should not be placed right at the edge of a steep slope, but this course does that all the time:

"An area two to three feet in radius around the hole should be as nearly level as possible and of uniform grade. In no case should holes be located in tricky places, or on sharp slopes where a ball can gather speed. A player above the hole should be able to stop the ball at the hole."

This was not the case at Grand Cypress. They had some side hill, side sloped and wicked pins

[pertikuss]

Our courses here are all pretty fair. I never give too much though on if the pins were fair or not, probably because they usually are. I can't remember thinking that a pin was unfair. Hard, yes, but not unfair.

There is one course that does a 'survival' tournament in the fall every year. The put the pins on every hole in the hardest possible spot. They won't put them on the slope of a two-tier green, but right at the top or bottom for instance. You pretty much just play the course then play mini-golf on the greens until you find the hole. I've seen a lot of 5 and 6 putts.