[bZEUWO4F]

Sorry if this was already a thread. I did a search and didn't find anything, but could have missed it.

I had a discussion with a friend of mine about this a couple of days ago. Should rakes be placed inside the bunker or just outside of the bunker? There are pros and cons to both arguments, but I wanted to see what your opinion is. I'm a member at two different clubs. One place the rakes stay outside the bunker and the other want the rakes to stay inside.

[SaamanthaSterlyng]

Rakes are supposed to be placed inside of the bunker as to not stop a ball from going into said bunker.

[MFSSCW2c]

I remember a thread about this! I thought it was go with the course rules. We have some that do out and some that do in.

[irrehoobe]

It really depends on the course. It is up to the superintendent as to what they prefer to have done. Most good courses have instruction on this.

[bZEUWO4F]

That's what I would prefer as well. I get pretty ticked off when someone leaves a rake outside the bunker and I hit a shot that is near the bunker and it hits the rake and goes in it. Many times if the rake wasn't there, the ball would not go into the bunker.

[thighikergove]

Rakes are supposed to be placed inside of the bunker as to not stop a ball from going into said bunker.

+1. I have also been on the unlucky side of this, where the rake was outside of the bunker (by quite a margin) and my ball hit it and kicked straight right into the bunker. My ball was not traveling on a line that would have put it in the bunker if it wasn't for that rake.

[cialviagra]

I think they should stay inside the bunkers personally, but I follow the guidelines set by the course if they are posted. If they are not, I place them where I found them.

[Prealiitellg]

My opinion is that they should be placed inside the bunker or in specially designed hole by each bunker

[RobertLS]

From here: http://golf.about.com/od/rulesofgolf..._rakeposit.htm, I found the below:

While there aren't any official rules about rake placement, there are rules of thumb and guidelines provided by the USGA in Decision Misc./2.

The USGA states in that decision:

"There is not a perfect answer for the position of rakes, but on balance it is felt there is less likelihood of an advantage or disadvantage to the player if rakes are placed outside of bunkers."
True, a rake placed outside a bunker might cause a ball to careen into the bunker, while a rake that is already in the bunker might cause a ball to careen out of the bunker.

More likely, though, when a rake inside a bunker influences the ball, is the possibility that the ball will come to rest against (or even on top of, if its teeth are pointing up) the rake.

Continuing with Decision Misc./2:

"It may be argued that there is more likelihood of a ball being deflected into or kept out of a bunker if the rake is placed outside the bunker. It could also be argued that if the rake is in the bunker it is most unlikely that the ball will be deflected out of the bunker.
"However, in practice, players who leave rakes in bunkers frequently leave them at the side which tends to stop a ball rolling into the flat part of the bunker, resulting in a much more difficult shot than would otherwise have been the case. This is most prevalent at a course where the bunkers are small. When the ball comes to rest on or against a rake in the bunker and the player must proceed under Rule 24-1, it may not be possible to replace the ball on the same spot or find a spot in the bunker which is not nearer the hole - see Decision 20-3d/2."

But what about placing the rakes in the middle of the bunker, where they won't be able to stop a ball on the bunker's sloping sides?

Decision Misc./2:

"If rakes are left in the middle of the bunker the only way to position them is to throw them into the bunker and this causes damage to the surface. Also, if a rake is in the middle of a large bunker it is either not used or the player is obliged to rake a large area of the bunker resulting in unnecessary delay.
"Therefore, after considering all these aspects, it is recommended that rakes should be left outside bunkers in areas where they are least likely to affect the movement of the ball."

The Golf Course Superintendents Association of America further recommends that rakes outside the bunker be placed laying flat on the ground (tines up) and parallel to the hole's direction of play.

So: Follow the guidelines in place at the golf course or in place for your tournament. If such guidelines are not in place, or you are unable to learn what they are, then place rakes outside bunkers, parallel to the direction of play on that hole.

[thighikergove]

It really depends on the course. It is up to the superintendent as to what they prefer to have done. Most good courses have instruction on this.

True. But if someone is unsure of the course rules, I would say as a general rule place rakes inside the bunker. But, they should know the course rules.

[GenrieAB]

It's all about what the super wants.

[RogHammon]

Many courses have rules pertaining to rakes. My home course prefers them in the bunkers.

I personally think they should be IN the bunker, and along sides that are parallel to the hole.

[SaamanthaSterlyng]

From here: http://golf.about.com/od/rulesofgolf..._rakeposit.htm, I found the below:

While there aren't any official rules about rake placement, there are rules of thumb and guidelines provided by the USGA in Decision Misc./2.

The USGA states in that decision:

"There is not a perfect answer for the position of rakes, but on balance it is felt there is less likelihood of an advantage or disadvantage to the player if rakes are placed outside of bunkers."
True, a rake placed outside a bunker might cause a ball to careen into the bunker, while a rake that is already in the bunker might cause a ball to careen out of the bunker.

More likely, though, when a rake inside a bunker influences the ball, is the possibility that the ball will come to rest against (or even on top of, if its teeth are pointing up) the rake.

Continuing with Decision Misc./2:

"It may be argued that there is more likelihood of a ball being deflected into or kept out of a bunker if the rake is placed outside the bunker. It could also be argued that if the rake is in the bunker it is most unlikely that the ball will be deflected out of the bunker.
"However, in practice, players who leave rakes in bunkers frequently leave them at the side which tends to stop a ball rolling into the flat part of the bunker, resulting in a much more difficult shot than would otherwise have been the case. This is most prevalent at a course where the bunkers are small. When the ball comes to rest on or against a rake in the bunker and the player must proceed under Rule 24-1, it may not be possible to replace the ball on the same spot or find a spot in the bunker which is not nearer the hole - see Decision 20-3d/2."

But what about placing the rakes in the middle of the bunker, where they won't be able to stop a ball on the bunker's sloping sides?

Decision Misc./2:

"If rakes are left in the middle of the bunker the only way to position them is to throw them into the bunker and this causes damage to the surface. Also, if a rake is in the middle of a large bunker it is either not used or the player is obliged to rake a large area of the bunker resulting in unnecessary delay.
"Therefore, after considering all these aspects, it is recommended that rakes should be left outside bunkers in areas where they are least likely to affect the movement of the ball."

The Golf Course Superintendents Association of America further recommends that rakes outside the bunker be placed laying flat on the ground (tines up) and parallel to the hole's direction of play.

So: Follow the guidelines in place at the golf course or in place for your tournament. If such guidelines are not in place, or you are unable to learn what they are, then place rakes outside bunkers, parallel to the direction of play on that hole.

Good find. Although I tend to dissagree!

[yarita]

Im in the group that thinks they should be outside the bunker. I hate seeing rakes inside a bunker near the back lip. This causes balls to get stuck against the rake and unable to roll down to the bottom of the bunker where they would normally end up. Leaving you right against the lip with a near impossible shot. I cant think of any situation with the rake outside the bunker that you would end up penalized in this manner. I feel if you must leave the rake in the bunker at least don't leave it right against the lip.

Solution!!! Players pack their own rakes and then there is no need to leave them laying anywhere.

[lesso73]

Its totally up to the golf course, at my course its rake in handle out.

[drugstore]

Its totally up to the golf course, at my course its rake in handle out.

This..

[JessePex]

I tried to find the other thread but after 40 pages I gave up!

I think it should be in the bunker.

[Waymninelia]

That's what I would prefer as well. I get pretty ticked off when someone leaves a rake outside the bunker and I hit a shot that is near the bunker and it hits the rake and goes in it. Many times if the rake wasn't there, the ball would not go into the bunker.

+1.. I hate when that happens... I would prefer that they are kept on the carts like most of the better clubs I play

[thighikergove]

Im in the group that thinks they should be outside the bunker. I hate seeing rakes inside a bunker near the back lip. This causes balls to get stuck against the rake and unable to roll down to the bottom of the bunker where they would normally end up. Leaving you right against the lip with a near impossible shot. I cant think of any situation with the rake outside the bunker that you would end up penalized in this manner. I feel if you must leave the rake in the bunker at least don't leave it right against the lip.

Solution!!! Players pack their own rakes and then there is no need to leave them laying anywhere.

See my above post.

For your solution, how would players who carry their clubs have their own rake? There is no room I'm my bag for a rake personally. I think it is a good idea but would need a little tweaking.

[VovTortki]

My home course has a label on the rake that states "PLACE RAKE IN BUNKER".