[Esmeralfaf]

Me too. And I keep FW hit, GIR, Scramble, and Putts to know where I need to improve.

I keep track of everything except scrambling, but for me I don't think that putting stats really tell me anything because the rest of my game is so bad.

[Esmeralfaf]

Almost every player I have ever played with has never shot that score they were "supposed" to shoot.

Don't you want something to strive for?

[fotodemujerahldesnugdo]

I can easily tell if I am getting better or not without keeping a score or maintaining a handicap! That's cool that you are in to stats and what not and I know many like to know that stuff. Every player I have ever know whether good or bad plays differently every single round they play. They will hit 5 fairways one day and 10 the next, have 28 putts one day and 40 the next, hit 2 greens one day and 18 the next, ect..... While it may be good to know what your stats are, in the grand scheme of things it all comes down to execution. I just have a hard time buying in to a system that tells me "on my best day I should shoot XX", while maxing out scores on a hole based on what your handicap is and throwing out bad rounds. Almost every player I have ever played with has never shot that score they were "supposed" to shoot.

As Harry said I do it to get better. I can break down the parts of my game to see what needs work. However, I also do it because it's fun. You don't find it fun, Ok. I like mountain oysters too.

[dwestemesse]

As Harry said I do it to get better. I can break down the parts of my game to see what needs work. However, I also do it because it's fun. You don't find it fun, Ok. I like mountain oysters too.

Just don't buy in to the handicap system is all I was saying...

[fotodemujerahldesnugdo]

Just don't buy in to the handicap system is all I was saying...

I hear you and just saying were all motivated differently. On the form I use, if I shoot around 84 to 85 my cap stays around 13. I've shot well under that numerous times this year, but well over that many times as well, lol. I know I can shoot under 80 if I work a little harder and break down whats missing. I'll get there.

[rxnixoncom]

I like mountain oysters too.

Grossly enough, so do I.

[mensforyouthis]

Just don't buy in to the handicap system is all I was saying...

How can you really say that if you have never tried it? I don't mind someone discussing the pros or cons of something that they have actual experience with, but to just make a bald statement like this without ever being involved with it just strikes me as uninformed.

I've carried a USGA handicap for 21 years now, and I buy into the system 100%. The only time the system fails is when the human side of the equation fails, not the system itself. There are a few unscrupulous players who try to abuse the system, and contrary to the amount of discussion they are a tiny minority. A well run club can keep them at bay by simply having an active and diligent handicap committee. My club, with a membership of up to 250 players, has virtually no problem with such players because we simply don't stand for it. As a result, application of handicaps in our tournaments works very well and keeps the flights very competitive, matches are almost always closely contested.

In a properly run club the USGA handicap system works. If it isn't working then you aren't using it correctly or you aren't policing your membership well enough.

Almost every player I have ever played with has never shot that score they were "supposed" to shoot.

You aren't supposed to shoot at or better than your handicap more often than 20% to 25% of the time if you carry a legitimate index. That is the way the system is set up. It measures your scoring potential, not your scoring average. Your average can easily be 3 or 4 strokes higher than your handicap, and shooting 3 or 4 strokes higher than your average on a day when your game is not quite there is easy to do. That would put you anywhere from 6 to 8 strokes above your handicap on a normal bad day... on a really terrible day who knows?

Having fun and keeping score/a handicap are not mutually exclusive.

Hear, hear. No matter what Craig says, if he isn't tracking (or even keeping) scores, then he really can't know how his game is doing in any but the broadest sense. I've had days when my game felt bad but the score was good, and days when just the opposite happened. If I didn't keep score, I'd never have known. I don't track stats except for putts.... it's too depressing. I don't think I've ever played a round of golf where I hit 50% GIR, yet I've shot as low as 1 over par, and shoot several rounds in the 70's each year. I even played a round this year where I was 3 under through 11 holes. I couldn't say that if I hadn't been keeping score, because I finished at +4. Tells me that I need to work on my end game....

[fotodemujerahldesnugdo]

"You aren't supposed to shoot at or better than your handicap more often than 20% to 25% of the time if you carry a legitimate index."

Great post Fourputt, very well explained. I had heard this before, but had forgotten and explains a lot. I often get down on myself for not shooting at my index MOST OF THE TIME, but I'm not really supposed to. If and when I do I will know I've raised my level of play. I shot under 80 twice this year, (77 & 78), just enough to frustrate me when I shoot 85 or worst, but thats golf.

The other part of a USGA handicap is leveling the field between course indexes and tournament play. What I have trouble understanding about my game is the two low scores were on mid indexed courses, but in tournaments, lol??

[dwestemesse]

How can you really say that if you have never tried it? I don't mind someone discussing the pros or cons of something that they have actual experience with, but to just make a bald statement like this without ever being involved with it just strikes me as uninformed.

I've carried a USGA handicap for 21 years now, and I buy into the system 100%. The only time the system fails is when the human side of the equation fails, not the system itself. There are a few unscrupulous players who try to abuse the system, and contrary to the amount of discussion they are a tiny minority. A well run club can keep them at bay by simply having an active and diligent handicap committee. My club, with a membership of up to 250 players, has virtually no problem with such players because we simply don't stand for it. As a result, application of handicaps in our tournaments works very well and keeps the flights very competitive, matches are almost always closely contested.

In a properly run club the USGA handicap system works. If it isn't working then you aren't using it correctly or you aren't policing your membership well enough.

You aren't supposed to shoot at or better than your handicap more often than 20% to 25% of the time if you carry a legitimate index. That is the way the system is set up. It measures your scoring potential, not your scoring average. Your average can easily be 3 or 4 strokes higher than your handicap, and shooting 3 or 4 strokes higher than your average on a day when your game is not quite there is easy to do. That would put you anywhere from 6 to 8 strokes above your handicap on a normal bad day... on a really terrible day who knows?

Hear, hear. No matter what Craig says, if he isn't tracking (or even keeping) scores, then he really can't know how his game is doing in any but the broadest sense. I've had days when my game felt bad but the score was good, and days when just the opposite happened. If I didn't keep score, I'd never have known. I don't track stats except for putts.... it's too depressing. I don't think I've ever played a round of golf where I hit 50% GIR, yet I've shot as low as 1 over par, and shoot several rounds in the 70's each year. I even played a round this year where I was 3 under through 11 holes. I couldn't say that if I hadn't been keeping score, because I finished at +4. Tells me that I need to work on my end game....

Who said I never carried a handicap?? Kept a handicap on two seperate occasions for several years each time.

My comment was that I don't need a handicap or even keep score to know whether I am improving or not, if you find that hard to believe then you are a fool. And I do keep score when I play.

My other comment was I don't buy in to a system that alters a holes score because of a certain handicap. For example, you are an XX handicap and you make an 8 on a par three but you are only allowed to enter a 5 or whatever because of your handicap, doesn't seem acurate to me. As well as only taking a certain amount of rounds in to consideration and dropping the bad rounds. If you only shot your handicap 20-25% of the time is that acurately your potential? But whatever.....

You can make your argument all you want to, I just don't use the system. I play maybe a total of 15 rounds a year, I am not a member of a club and just don't see it as important or useful to me. Does that make me not a "proper" golfer because I don't track a handicap??

[Esmeralfaf]

You can make your argument all you want to, I just don't use the system. I play maybe a total of 15 rounds a year, I am not a member of a club and just don't see it as important or useful to me. Does that make me not a "proper" golfer because I don't track a handicap??

Good grief Craig. Why are you trying to read something into Fourputt's post that isn't there. The man wears jeans when he plays - he's not a snob in any sense of the word. He was only trying to explain the logic behind the handicap system. Accept it, don't accept it - that's up to you, but it's part of the game.