[ditpiler]

Dear All,
It has been pondering over my mind for several years. Due to one's karma of the previous birth, he comes into existance in the next birth either as animal, man etc. Even as a human being, he/she borns in a rich family, poor family etc. This are absolutely due to past karma. So, when the environment in which one put in is by his/her last birth's karma. Therefore, his attitude and actions also depends on his environment/circumstances in which one is born/put in. Over and above this, the planets in one's horescope is also depends on the 'poorvajanma karma'. Based on horescope, one tells what would his future and how his life going to be. When such being the case, what is an independent action in one's life. In other words, everything is pre-determined. Therefore, there is nothing that one can do. EVerthing is already decided and one's thinking and action all depend on such pre-determind thing only. In short, one is destined to be atheist he will be or if he is destined tobe otherwise, he would be. Therefore, there is no independent action of any one. Everthing is pre-determined.

IS THIS THEROY CORRECT OR NOT !! IF NOT WHAT IS THE REASONABLE LOGICAL EXPLANTION !!

CAN ANYONE HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS MORE CLEARLY ?

REGARDS
BALACHANDRAN

[55TRATTERENRY]

Avashyam Bhooktavyam Karmaphalam Sukhasukham i.e we have to undergo the good or bad results of whatever Karma we have committed. Our lives are a mixture of pre determined karmic results and also the outcome of karma done in the present life also.

Our horoscopes are like the balance sheet, which explain us regarding the type or calible of ourselves and various other aspects of life and living. Therefore a true follower of jyothishya will never be a fatalist and say all things are pre determined. He will know his plusses and minusses or his limitations and strong points and try to refrain from doing bad karma i.e he or she will use the great knowledge as a cutting edge and become a wise man.

A wise man is one who knows that there are some matters where he is fully aware and also there are matters where is is ignorant. Therefore Astrology makes a person a wise man. He becomes aware of his assets and liabilities. he then consciously follows and guides his future karmas into Satkarmas and avoids Duskarmas i.e Maximising positive Karmas and minimising negetive karmas.

[LoisCampon]

Yes. One is born as per his/her PRARABDHA karma.He/she born as an animal, depending on the accumulated karma (SANCHITA karma ), which is fructifying .But, one who is born as a human has freewill unlike as anomal.Thus, a himan could use freewill to decide what is to be done.Only even as human, he/she cannot guarantee the result.But, that person accumulates unseen reult in form of PUNYA/PAPAM,depending on the attitude with wfich the action (AGAMI karma performed in this birth) was performed.This accumulated punya/papam along with unfructified sanchita karma will decide his future birth.So, one who is just a fatalist and has not utilised the freewill granted to him/her as a result of human birth, would have wasted an excellent opportunity providrd by God, to improve his/her lot.

[constanyiskancho]

"கன்மம் பயன்றரல் கர்த்தன தாணையாற்
கன்மங் கடவுளோ வுந்தீபற
கன்மஞ் சடமதா லுந்தீபற

வினையின் விளைவு விளிவுற்று வித்தாய்
வினைக்கடல் வீழ்த்திடு முந்தீபற
வீடுதரலிலை யுந்தீபற

கருத்தனுக் காக்குநிட் காமிய கன்மங்
கருத்தைத் திருத்தி யக்து வுந்தீபற
கதிவழி காண்பிக்கு முந்தீபற "
........................................உபதேச உந்தியார்
ஜீவர்களால் செயப்படும் கர்மங்கள் அதனுடைய பலனைத்
திருப்பித்தரக் கூடியதானது கடவுளின் ஆணைப்படியே நிகழும் . செய்கின்ற கர்மமே பலனைத் தருகின்ற கடவுளாக இருக்கமுடியுமோ ? ஏன் எனில் கர்மமானனது தானே இயங்கக்கூடிய சக்திவுடயது அல்ல . அது ஜடமானது .

கர்மங்களை தன்னிச்சைப்படி செய்யும் சுதந்திரத்தை ஜீவர்களுக்கு கொடுத்த இறைவன் , ஜீவர்களின் இச்சைப்படி கர்ம பலனைப் பெறுவதற்குத் தடைவிதித்தான் . அவன் செய்த
கருமத்திற்கான பலன் தருவதை இறைவன் விதித்த ஆணைப்படி நடக்கும்படி அதாவது தனது ஆணைக்குள் இருக்கும்படிக்கு செய்தான் . இல்லையேல் நிலைமை மோசமாகிவிடும் . இது இறைவனின் எலையில்லா கருணை ஆகும் .
ஜீவன் செய்கின்ற எந்த ஒரு செயலும் பலன் தராது போகாது . அவன் செய்த கருமத்திற்கு ஏற்றவாறு பலன் கொடுக்கும் . இது இறைவனின் நியதி . ஆனால் ஒருவன் செய்யும் செயலுக்கான
பலன் செய்பவனின் இச்சைப்படி நடக்காது . இறைவன் இச்சைப்படிதான் நடக்கும் .ஆனால் ஜீவன் தான் செய்யும் செயலுக்கு தான் விரும்பும் பலனை அடைய எண்ணுகிறான் .
இவற்றிற்கு விதிவிலக்காக நடந்தவை ... மார்கண்டேயனின் சரித்திரம் .தான் இட்ட கட்டளையை இறைவன் தானே மீறும்படி ஆனது மார்கண்டேயனின் அதீத பக்தியால் .
ஒரு கர்மத்தை செய்த ஜீவன் அந்த கர்ம பலனை அனுபவித்த பிறகு மீண்டும் அதில் பிரவிருத்திக்காமல்
விடுதலை அடைவதற்குரிய முக்தியை பெறமுடிவதில்லை .
காரணம் கர்மத்தின் பலன் மட்டுமே அனுபவித்ததால் அழிந்ததே அன்றி அதன் வாசனை அழியவில்லை . இந்த வாசனையானது ஜீவனை விடுதலை அடையமுடியாமல்
கர்ம பந்தத்தில் பிணைத்து பிறவிக்கடலில் ஆழ்த்துகிறது . முக்தி அடைய விடுவதில்லை .
பலனில் இச்சையின்றி ஈஸ்வரார்ப்பணமாக செய்யும் நிட்காமிய கர்மங்கள் மனத்தின் அழுக்கை நீக்கி வாசனைகள் அற்று சித்த சுத்தியை கொடுத்து மோக்ஷ வீட்டை அடைய , பிறவிகள் அற்ற வழியை உணரும்படி காண்பிக்கும் .
நான் எனது என்ற உணர்வுகள் அற்று பலன் கருதாது இறைவனுக்கு அர்ப்பணித்து எல்லாம் அவன் செயல் என்று கர்மங்கள் செய்தல் உத்தமம் .

எல்லாம் விதிப்படி நடக்கும் என்றாலும் , நம்மை இறைவனிடம் முற்றிலுமாக ஒப்படைத்து ---நான் செய்கிறேன் என்ற எண்ணத்துடன் செயல்கள் செய்யாது --
பக்தியினால் சரண் அடைவதால் விடுதலை கிடைக்கும் . இதற்கு பிறவிகளுக்கு முழு சுதந்திரம் உண்டு .-

[JesikaFlpk]

Dear All,
It has been pondering over my mind for several years. Due to one's karma of the previous birth, he comes into existance in the next birth either as animal, man etc. Even as a human being, he/she borns in a rich family, poor family etc. This are absolutely due to past karma. So, when the environment in which one put in is by his/her last birth's karma. Therefore, his attitude and actions also depends on his environment/circumstances in which one is born/put in. Over and above this, the planets in one's horescope is also depends on the 'poorvajanma karma'. Based on horescope, one tells what would his future and how his life going to be. When such being the case, what is an independent action in one's life. In other words, everything is pre-determined. Therefore, there is nothing that one can do. EVerthing is already decided and one's thinking and action all depend on such pre-determind thing only. In short, one is destined to be atheist he will be or if he is destined tobe otherwise, he would be. Therefore, there is no independent action of any one. Everthing is pre-determined.

IS THIS THEROY CORRECT OR NOT !! IF NOT WHAT IS THE REASONABLE LOGICAL EXPLANTION !!

CAN ANYONE HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS MORE CLEARLY ?

REGARDS
BALACHANDRAN

Shree balachandran,

My simple suggestion to you sir is,please find a Bhagavath Gita and read it many times.Your answeres will be miraculously be answered.Thank you.

gopal.

[actioliGalm]

Being born as human being is said to be lucky as one can atleast make little efforts for ones upliftment. Especially in this yuga by
mere chanting of the lords name is enough to derive all the benefits.
If one think we are free to make our destiny, it may not be correct
as it is only with Divin influence we are guided on to the right path.
It is said if one make one small step, the lord takes tens steps towards that soul. All one has to do is take that one step and be guided by the Almighty. One can start by mere chanting the Lords name everyday, this will automatically help them to be guided on to the right path.

Rgds,
Mohan Parasuram

[moopogyOvenny]

yes.every thing is pre determind and already happened as desstained.but one can not live the just like that. when there are choises to chose ofcourse U HAD TO SELECT A PATH..PROBABLY CHOSING MAY ALSO BE DESTAINNED. but U had to perform the action without any attachment to the fruit of it karmanyeva athikarasthe maa palesu kadhachana. thanks.v.lalithakumar

[citicroego]

Whatever we encounter in this life is due to what we have done in our earlier births (PRARABDHA KARMA ).But,as human beings, we are blessed with a freewill to act or not act, as we please.Whatever we do in this life is again going to determine type of our future births.The action also will result in punya or papa, depending on our attitude while performing action.Any failure to exercise our freewill would only mean, we have failed to utilise the opportunity of human birth to act properly and to increase our punya and balance the impact of our earlier papa.One can never be sure what sort of birth awaits in future.

[Effofqueeno]

I would like to debate on this topic taking the other side - i.e Man determines his Fate !

There's a saying " Attitude determines your altitude " and some of our religious text also prescribe that " If one goes after something with a dedicated spirit and right attitude , he attains what so ever he aspires for , GOD smiles at him and gives him his reward "

Come on Folks , you have 24 X 7 hours in a week , 60 minutes in an hour , 60 hours in a second and GOD has given us powerful brains which can in a fraction of a second flash you with ideas ( good or bad !) , capable of scanning your existing databases , helping you to chart your course of action !

If we simply take an excuse of not doing our best and blaming it / having total dependence on your stars then you seem to have an attitude problem ! and you will be marked as a passive person !
The Man who blames the fate can never convince himself and his own conscious , forget the rest of the world and so the bottom line is to " Believe in yourself and your stars will smile at you !, more often than not !"

[lrUyiva1]

I would like to debate on this topic taking the other side - i.e Man determines his Fate !

There's a saying " Attitude determines your altitude " and some of our religious text also prescribe that " If one goes after something with a dedicated spirit and right attitude , he attains what so ever he aspires for , GOD smiles at him and gives him his reward "

Come on Folks , you have 24 X 7 hours in a week , 60 minutes in an hour , 60 hours in a second and GOD has given us powerful brains which can in a fraction of a second flash you with ideas ( good or bad !) , capable of scanning your existing databases , helping you to chart your course of action !

If we simply take an excuse of not doing our best and blaming it / having total dependence on your stars then you seem to have an attitude problem ! and you will be marked as a passive person !
The Man who blames the fate can never convince himself and his own conscious , forget the rest of the world and so the bottom line is to " Believe in yourself and your stars will smile at you !, more often than not !"

I fully agree with you. Let us set our goals. Let us work towards the goals. There may be some hurdles in between. Ultimately we reach our goals.

Without making a sincere effort to achieve our goals, if we start blaming on the fate, then we can never prosper in life.

எண்ணாயிரம் ஆண்டு யோகம் இருப்பினும் கண்ணார் அமுதனை கண்டறிவாரில்லை உள் நாடி ஒளி பெற உள்ளே நோக்கினார் கண்ணாடி போல கலந்து நின்றானே

[Mabeavyledlib]

to Balachandranji, We all born in this world because of our good Karmas, and globe are literally packed with living creatures,each of which possesses a soul,or a spirit. We can classcify in 4 catagary, Man,Animals Birds, insects and Plants. All these worldly relationships are meant only for clearing our Karmic accounts.Different persons who have Karmic accounts to settle with us come into our life as our relatives,friends,acquaintances,and so forth, and when their accounts are settled they drift away from us.
It is our karmas that bring us together and our Karmas that separate us from one another. We remain together only as long as we are destined to do so, and no more. Sometimes our distiny makes us do things that are much against our wishes. We become a helpless tool in the hands of fate. To overcome we required a Perfect living Master. And the Master to initiate us. The most important aspect of being initiated is that Master connects us to the audible life stream, the Divine Sound,which is the link between the Soul and the Source(Lord).
Once we are initiated, Master offers us his love, direction,encouragement and constant protection. He helps us to cope with our Karmas.
The patterns of Karma are inevitable and unchangeable. What has to happen, has already happened on a different level at a different stage. We have only go through it. s.r.k.

[PebydataFeents]

to akura Thank you for quote from Ramana Maharishies Upadesa Unthiyar. This wonderful book gives us what is life and action.Unfortunately I am not haveing XP to type in Tamil and discuss more. s.r.k.

[hoconnor6605]

Dear esarkey ji !

Hope you don't mind my intervention in your reply to sri balanchandranji !

The theory illustrated below gives rise to so many queries , let us try and ponder on the following few !

1) If Man controls his Karma , wouldn't it be fair on the part of GOD to let him check on his account balance , at least every 6 months to check the CREDIT / DEBIT balance , interest accumulated , etc etc.

It is really ODD for Karmic philosophy to be in place if you are given a hint about your outstanding +ve or -ve score only when you exit from this Janma and return for the next ...And it's still puzzling when I am unable to remember what i used to be in my previous janma !
( Hope i don't end up eating the same animal that i used to be in my previous janma - if then how many karmic points will i lose !)

2) Then they say you carry vasanas from one life to other , some of the attributes helping you with the present life ?? A clear explanation from the learned could add value to this discussion !

3) I don't say you defy fate but as shri RV ji mentioned , statistics reveal that most of the achievers in this world have toiled hard , so hard till their end , contributing little of whatever possible in their own respective fields and so this EARTH has become a better place to LIVE in !

Leaning on FATE is like getting a NEGATIVE thought inside you , a weed that could ruin all earned Karmic points !

I feel this everyone should exchange and clarify their views and opinions in this topic and let us find out exactly the % age contribution of FATE in anyone's LIFE !

3)

to Balachandranji, We all born in this world because of our good Karmas, and globe are literally packed with living creatures,each of which possesses a soul,or a spirit. We can classcify in 4 catagary, Man,Animals Birds, insects and Plants. All these worldly relationships are meant only for clearing our Karmic accounts.Different persons who have Karmic accounts to settle with us come into our life as our relatives,friends,acquaintances,and so forth, and when their accounts are settled they drift away from us.
It is our karmas that bring us together and our Karmas that separate us from one another. We remain together only as long as we are destined to do so, and no more. Sometimes our distiny makes us do things that are much against our wishes. We become a helpless tool in the hands of fate. To overcome we required a Perfect living Master. And the Master to initiate us. The most important aspect of being initiated is that Master connects us to the audible life stream, the Divine Sound,which is the link between the Soul and the Source(Lord).
Once we are initiated, Master offers us his love, direction,encouragement and constant protection. He helps us to cope with our Karmas.
The patterns of Karma are inevitable and unchangeable. What has to happen, has already happened on a different level at a different stage. We have only go through it. s.r.k.

[TubOppomo]

Dear Sri Akura ji,

I just want to know whether Ramana Maharishi has composed any other Tamil song other than `Arunachala Akshara Mani Malai'. If so could you please furnish the entire list.

Thanks and all the best

எண்ணாயிரம் ஆண்டு யோகம் இருப்பினும் கண்ணார் அமுதனை கண்டறிவாரில்லை உள் நாடி ஒளி பெற உள்ளே நோக்கினார் கண்ணாடி போல கலந்து நின்றானே

[Cheeniandab]

Dear All,
It has been pondering over my mind for several years. Due to one's karma of the previous birth, he comes into existance in the next birth either as animal, man etc. Even as a human being, he/she borns in a rich family, poor family etc. This are absolutely due to past karma. So, when the environment in which one put in is by his/her last birth's karma. Therefore, his attitude and actions also depends on his environment/circumstances in which one is born/put in. Over and above this, the planets in one's horescope is also depends on the 'poorvajanma karma'. Based on horescope, one tells what would his future and how his life going to be. When such being the case, what is an independent action in one's life. In other words, everything is pre-determined. Therefore, there is nothing that one can do. EVerthing is already decided and one's thinking and action all depend on such pre-determind thing only. In short, one is destined to be atheist he will be or if he is destined tobe otherwise, he would be. Therefore, there is no independent action of any one. Everthing is pre-determined.

IS THIS THEROY CORRECT OR NOT !! IF NOT WHAT IS THE REASONABLE LOGICAL EXPLANTION !!

CAN ANYONE HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS MORE CLEARLY ?

REGARDS
BALACHANDRAN

You say:

1. That our present lives are governed by our past actions

2. That planetory positions affect our future

3. That everything is according to a grand scheme which is a result of one's karma

Let me try going backwards to your logic and try to analyse what it would lead to. What would have been the state of the mind in the previous birth? Bound by a previous karma... and so on and so forth. Then what would have been the karma of the first being that it has accrued so much karma that ordains multiple births?

If the above is confusing, I shall put it in a simpler way - In short I am questioning the origin of karma. How could karma arise/originate?

That if understood, would clear things a bit; which then leads one to ask the question - What is karma?

Just thought that I would add here;

Jadabaradhar was a very pious being and was well on the way to moksha (jivanmuktha, some might say). One day he happenned to see a deer near his hut and started to take care of it; and in course of time grew fond of it. It so happenned that when he breathed his last, the deer was the last thing he remembered. And thus, his next janma was a deer! The deer, in its life was very much detached from its group and lived a life of seclusion! (previous vasanas, someone mentioned about it in this thread). The story goes on that after the life of the deer, the soul reincarnated as a human and eventually attained moksha.

Important note: It is not to be assumed that regardless of whatever one does during one's lifetime, the soul attains the state what is thought of in the last moments.

So this is an apt example of how karma works - a desire for the deer here transformed the soul into the body of a deer itself. Why so? It is anybody's guess - could be that the soul felt the affection so much that it wanted to experience the life through one it loved so much (the deer, in this instance). Could be that it wanted to share the life of a deer, having loved it so much. Could be that the soul was driven to the one deep longing it had; to be fulfilled by living as a deer.

[chppjdf]

to All:and Vijisesh: 1.Man controls his Karmas yes, how? eg: If you are suffering from fever and you develop tolarence to bear with pain your some of the Karmas washed away.(olden days our forefathers use to say I am suffering because of my earlier life Karmas or Fate) and they never go for medicin. Like wise one can check his Karma Balance sheet.And If one is luckey to get a Perfect Master and understand the worldly thing will live like a lotous and he himself will get his fruit in this janma.
2.Ofcourse I am sure that some of my last life Vasana was carried in this human birth because I got a Perfect Master in this life and I am leading a Spiritual life today. A answer in sapthajivha reply.3. Vethiiy Mathiyal Vellalam.In one of my reply for another thread that Creator made 84 lak species so sure in one birth one must born and pay back the DUE. In Mahabaratham story DRUDHARASHTRAN born as blind because he injured a small bird 10,000 births before and When he was a child which dontno about good or bad or Karmas, But to settle the a/c he born and Paid price for that. So each action in every birth one should suffer and Pay for that. If you wanted this Theory should be proved please get a perfect Master and learn the method of living meditation(DIE TO LIVE) and you will understand my theory. s.r.k.

[inhitoemits]

Long back I used to read positivity and self help books. I used to come across people who used to read these books non-stop. Then I came across someone who said that these books are thoroughly useless and more so the attitude of people who read them non-stop as apparently in spite of reading so many of these books they still find something lacking in themselves that they seek more such books. That time I understood that these books are another tool for the writers to make money. The gist of these books is there is nothing like karma or destiny, that destiny is in your hands and take charge of it. I half agree with it but then the same point was driven across in millions of books in a variety or ways and techniques. Then I came across this beautiful couplet from our Upanishads which summarize what all these books say. I am giving the translation below and would like to know the name of the specific Upanishad in which it appeared, if someone knowledgeable can let me know.

"You are what your deepest desire is;
As you desire, so is your intention;
As your intention, so is your will;
As is your will so is your deed;
As is your deed, so is your destiny"

My take on this is the effects of karma cannot be ruled out. So the past deeds definitely determine your future life. But today's present also determine's tomorrow's future. Gracefully accepting the effect of one's past actions, we should probably concentrate on accumulating good karma for the future.

[Byxtysaaqwuz]

no body knows what is ones own fate .maximun one can guess it.may come true or not.one is entitled to do his action only.for every cause there is an effect and vicee versa.both caue and effect may be either way.one can feel them ,only after the deed.lamenting on fate is not an healthy sign of progress.with humble namaskars.v.lalithakumar.

[Arratherimi]

yes life is pre determined. But how is it pre determined? It is pre determined based on our karma or prarabhda karma i.e. our karma which have matured to be fruitfied. When keep repeating a karma - good or bad - it accumulates and becomes a prarabhda karma. Should this lead us to believe that every thing is pre determined in life. May be the major events of our life, like birth, marriage, major diseases, our children etc are the result of our poorva janma karma. But what about this janma? It is believed that that a soul when born in a body will do some karma - good or bad. If it is good karma we enjoy - it is like going to a hill station with your ATM card. The moment you run out of money you have to come back and start earning again. The benefits of good karma of poorva janma will give us heaven. But heaven is not a karma bhoomi. We have again to come to this boolokha which is the karma boombi. Similarly we do the so called bad karma we suffer in hell to the extent of our bad karma. But is there any thing as heaven or hell or is it our enjoyment and sufferings that makes this boolokha heav en or hell for us. The karma we do in the present janma will stand us for the next one. In a way it is karma and karma only which determines our destiny. When we have this wisdom or say when our soul is matured to understand this, we should try and do good karma, no matter what our karma had been in the past janma.

[TopcigsCOM]

Dear Sri s.ramakrishnan Ji,

Let me tell you what I know of this subject. My explanation is based on having practiced amateur astrology for a long time in my life, as well as having read a bit of our scriptures as well as the writings of several luminaries.

Yes, the prarabdha karma for this life determines your karma phala in this life. But prarabdha karma has two parts - part of the karma you have accumulated in previous lives and a part you do in this life. Only Easwara knows which parts manifest when. This life's karma is created by your 'free will'.

Now, what is 'free will'? It is what you choose to do in this life ON THE MATTERS PERTAINING TO DETACHMENT (or towards reducing your karma). As Ramana Maharishi says, the freedom to act on your part is only whether you follow our scripture's instruction to be detached from action. Because. your action is also pre-determined.

Now having said that, you can not sit idle and say that what is going to happen is going to happen and so I give up. Because inaction and sloth lead to adharma and you accrue negative karma due to that. For example, let us say, one's father is dying of a terminal disease. One can not then sit back and not aggressively seek treatment. Because it is one's dharma towards his father to seek medical help.

Positive as well as negative karmas are bad in our religion, because they both make you to have rebirths till the balance sheet is zero. So, do not worry about karma. Do your dharma, and while doing it be detached. Ramember, there are four paths to do the act of getting to the zero balance sheet fast.

Hope this explains.

Regards,
KRS