[maks_holi]

>> not to make disciple dependant on guru for another life-time.

[Ornamiviant]

vasu ji!

the mystical aspect is carried a bit too much in India. people should not disregard logical aspect in their spiritual quest. that's my point.

Guru's uttama lakshanam is to free the disciple completely after the sbject is taught, not to make disciple dependant on guru for another life-time.

Regards

Dear MM,

True until we realize the mystical aspect is of prime importance, because they are relevant even in today's world. Logical aspects are embedded in our spiritual path. It's up to us to give importance to the garden (logic) or the owner of the garden (god).

Guru is merged with nature..god. The subject of guru is to teach the shishya on how to merge with nature..god. So once, the subject is learnt...the shishya is also merged with the guru...there is no dependence, only liberation.

[kimaddison]

my son wants to put a happy face to greet you all

[BenWired306]

vasu sir,

logical part is the one which helps to understand truth - the mystical part.

thanks

[CaseyFronczek]

With due respects to all the Gurus,

One necessarily need not have a Guru to know the path of knowledge; it is also possible that he may attain it on his own... just that the probability is less...

[Fededorbprago]

Guru is needed to attain Moksha.Guru acts as a mirror of one's self, else to see one-self is impossible.That without Guru anything can be manifest is a myth and maya. Even those who seem to be spiritual prodegies from birth have poorvajanma vasanas and gurus guiding them secretively.

Guru-sathyam--Jagath-Mithyam!

[oplapofffe]

welcome junior vandu

[Phoneemer]

welcome junior vandu

Should it be read as "Vandu" or "Va(a)ndu...?

[paratayoma]

I am doing Kutty Karnam for dat

sb

[kasandrasikl]

sb!
that line is my guru's quote. at that time he was a temple priest, now he is a teacher of aagama patasala in thiruparangunram teaching 150 students.

amazing person, we are close friends, we used to call each others as "anna" - he used to say like professor, one should teach to make the disciple understand and move off. He is very wary about the emotional bondage.

regards

[fuslssdfaa]

This whole thread I believe was started with one single issue - that it was immensely difficult for (young) people to get their minds streamlined all by themselves and so we sought out to share opinions as to how this can be done in an efficient way.

Now, with all the individual ideas received in the past few days, it looks like many (NOT all) want to form the opinion that a preceptor may not be that important. Then can we not invalidate this social issue/thread itself. If not it is a complete U-turn.

If everything is logic, then everything needs to be matter. In Hinduism we concur that there is something that is beyond matter. The rational mind (eastern and the western ones), accept that there is something called metaphysical. The Guru helps us in both - in a synchronous way.

Many of you might be aware of Object oriented techniques used in various industries. Like, we can drive a car, even if we had no idea of what made it work. Just because we had no idea what is behind the interfaces (encapsulation) given to us for driving, we cannot negate the fact, that there is something that makes the car work other than our driving. The engine does exist and it does require the initial spark of fire to start the process.

Similarly, there is something in our body, other than matter (beyond logic or the realm of mind), which makes it work - life. The process of driving is easy, the process of living is also easy. But, if we need to make the car all on our own from scratch, we start with the invention of wheel. It has taken thousands of years before the engine was invented. We just have hundred in this life. If it takes thousands for just the invention of an engine through evolution, just imagine finding out about "life" all by ourselves. That might take many life cycles.

Let's not forget, people shared ideas and opinions about the wheel, and other parts of automobile across generations before the final one made an automobile out of it. So, why do we have to delay our own process of understanding "life" by saying we would find it out all by our selves. Even, books do not help people become experts (even) in material professions. Well - doctors, lawyers, engineers don't try to become experts in their profession all by themselves for the same reason. We accept mentors (and/or universities) in material education, but should we say "no" when it comes to life education.

[enurneAcourdy]

Shri Sridhar,

I believe that these sort of discussions were abundant in the olden times also... let us not frame our religion by saying that it has been perceived in a particular way... we are all guilty of our own perceptions...

In olden days probably, then used to discuss in Sanskrit, now we do in English, Thanglish, Hinglish... etc...

[Amorsesombabs]

This whole thread I believe was started with one single issue - that it was immensely difficult for (young) people to get their minds streamlined all by themselves and so we sought out to share opinions as to how this can be done in an efficient way.

Now, with all the individual ideas received in the past few days, it looks like many (NOT all) want to form the opinion that a preceptor may not be that important. Then can we not invalidate this social issue/thread itself. If not it is a complete U-turn.

If everything is logic, then everything needs to be matter. In Hinduism we concur that there is something that is beyond matter. The rational mind (eastern and the western ones), accept that there is something called metaphysical. The Guru helps us in both - in a synchronous way.

Many of you might be aware of Object oriented techniques used in various industries. Like, we can drive a car, even if we had no idea of what made it work. Just because we had no idea what is behind the interfaces (encapsulation) given to us for driving, we cannot negate the fact, that there is something that makes the car work other than our driving. The engine does exist and it does require the initial spark of fire to start the process.

Similarly, there is something in our body, other than matter (beyond logic or the realm of mind), which makes it work - life. The process of driving is easy, the process of living is also easy. But, if we need to make the car all on our own from scratch, we start with the invention of wheel. It has taken thousands of years before the engine was invented. We just have hundred in this life. If it takes thousands for just the invention of an engine through evolution, just imagine finding out about "life" all by ourselves. That might take many life cycles.

Let's not forget, people shared ideas and opinions about the wheel, and other parts of automobile across generations before the final one made an automobile out of it. So, why do we have to delay our own process of understanding "life" by saying we would find it out all by our selves. Even, books do not help people become experts (even) in material professions. Well - doctors, lawyers, engineers don't try to become experts in their profession all by themselves for the same reason. We accept mentors (and/or universities) in material education, but should we say "no" when it comes to life education.

hi,
namaskarams ...Like Arjun a young warrior got sarathi like Krishna.
all other pandavas does get a chance to hear Sri Bhagavad gita.
Like sri paramanhansa got discilple like Narendra...later called
swami vivekananda..

regards
tbs

[timgillmoreeztf]

Shri Sridhar,

I believe that these sort of discussions were abundant in the olden times also... let us not frame our religion by saying that it has been perceived in a particular way... we are all guilty of our own perceptions...

In olden days probably, then used to discuss in Sanskrit, now we do in English, Thanglish, Hinglish... etc...

Dear Seshadri,

Where did religion come into this discussion and how does your above comment relate to what I have written before? And why the mention of language of discussion now?

[gundorana]

I guess your mention of religion was because, I had said something like "If everything is logic, then everything needs to be matter. In Hinduism we concur that there is something that is beyond matter. The rational mind (eastern and the western ones), accept that there is something called metaphysical. The Guru helps us in both - in a synchronous way."

This was only to reply to MM that logic is not everything and also there is a mention that eastern and western ones alike so nothing relation to (our religion) Hinduism alone.

[denSmumbSes]

This whole thread I believe was started with one single issue - that it was immensely difficult for (young) people to get their minds streamlined all by themselves and so we sought out to share opinions as to how this can be done in an efficient way.

Now, with all the individual ideas received in the past few days, it looks like many (NOT all) want to form the opinion that a preceptor may not be that important. Then can we not invalidate this social issue/thread itself. If not it is a complete U-turn. It was in response to this... my first sentence...

If everything is logic, then everything needs to be matter. In Hinduism we concur that there is something that is beyond matter. The rational mind (eastern and the western ones), accept that there is something called metaphysical. The Guru helps us in both - in a synchronous way. The part about religion is directed at this... I just meant that differing views in itself is an interesting phenomenon which proves the diversity of views on religion and god... It could be logic, something beyond matter... and any more too.. I wanted to highlight that it is not limited to any one's perceptions...

The linguistic part was just a failed attempt at sarcastic humour... no offence meant.

[diseeKeythilt]

Dear Seshadri

Hmmm..interesting. It took me so long to understand your curt but thoughtful comments.

[xochex]

logic is not everything - yes sir.

but only using logic a human mind can understand.

Bhagavt Padal in his works highlight the importance of Shruti and human intelligence in understanding. That' s how knowledge is gained and one become a Gnani Sir.

[Spongebob]

Dear MM,

It is with earnest feeling of sharing what little i know that i have been writing, please take no offense if any thoughts shared by me are in contrast to yours.

You are 100% correct when you say, "only using logic human mind can understand". Which is synchronous with what i had quoted in my earlier posting. "there is something in our body, other than matter (beyond logic or the realm of mind), which makes it work - life."

There was a great sage in ancient times, who gained knowledge in abundance, but after much effort, a great preceptor guided him saying, "you have gained knowledge to the extent of a handful of sand - it is a lot for sure. however, there is a whole earth full of sand or knowledge to be gained". Thus, the person was guided into the path of self-realization which gives the whole earth full of sand or knowledge.

The difference is knowledge/understanding (which is of the mind) and realization (which is of the soul). Ramakrishna said it is better to know the owner of a beautiful garden first than going around the garden. The owner will help you go around the garden faster and better. He referred to the owner (god or self) and the garden (world or knowledge).

The greatness of a Guru is in helping us into how we can know our self. All that i can do here is talk about the Guru's greatness in streamlining the young mind to reach beyond the mind - the self. There are so many of those great souls around.

[anatmob]

M M

Did Bhagavat Padal see Shriman Narayanan? or suggest some link so that i can read about him,thnx.

sb