[NofFoomiTot]

Hinduism is the oldest religion in the world.It's philosophies,teachings,way of life and knolwedge are unparalleled in the world.It is impossible to define who a hindu is and what are the fundamentals of our religion.Infact clubbing various sects into one name 'hinduism' has its own merits and demerits.

I believe that the word hindu is a political construct,one that was necessitated because government had to name the phenomena that united the various sects,which had nothing common in them except varnashrama and shared deities.

When we talk of hinduism needing reforms,actually we are talking of people who follow hinduism reforming themselves.While tremendous amount of improvement has happened in the past century,I believe that still a lot of improvement is possible in this aspect.

Here are some areas where I think hinduism needs reforms.

1.Making hinduism a missionary religion.
2.Equality of men and women.
3.upliftment of downtrodden segments in hinduism,like dalits and fishermen.
4.Building a secular society based upon principles of equality,liberty and fraternity.
5.Removal of superstitions and harmful practices like sathi & encouraging widow remarriages etc.

[blogwado]

Well spoken, Goundamani! Real good write-up.

Now, who is going to bell the cat?

[Agehoobionibe]

Silver fox,

Any attempt to change first needs an assesment of the current situation.The million dollar question that needs to be answered first is 1.do we need change?

Is everything allright with us?Do we or dont we need change?Which is the right path,orthodoxy or reforms?

[Noxassope]

Dear Goundamani
I am all for reforms. But then again, some people might be against it, too!

[Optosypoeds]

Dear silverfox,

Ofcourse reformers will face opposition.They have to overcome it and attain their objectives.

[SoorgoBardy]

I agree with Shant_Brahm. The word Reform means that there is some thing wrong with existing Religion.First, Could someone please define what the word "Hinduism" means? Unlike other religions we do not follow one Prophet or one book or one Philosophy to call ourselves as Hindus belonging to a single religion. Even though the core aspect of "Hinduism" may be same, that is the belief in one "Brahman" it encompasses different philosophical denominations, traditions, beliefs and practices. This is our strength, which prevented our religion disintegrating into vacuum due to continuous invation from outside for many centuries.This perhaps is the only Religion in the world which has accepted continuous reformation by Sages and Saints gifted by Almighty time and again. It is my view if need be there will be a reformer who will come of his own to Reform us again. We need not do any thing for this. We never believed in adding numbers to our Religion, that is Politics. We believe that each one can follow his own path in the matter of spiritual pursuit.
If someone wants to reform the social customs practiced in this Country, then that is different.
Brahmanyan.

[valiumnopresc]

in our religion very thing is perdicted.
in kaliyuga every dharma will go to its down level.
every rituals in our religion is to lead to mind purity.
in kaliyuga varna ashrama dharma will go .

" In kaliyuga every persons mind is impure and their earnings are by doing bad deeds. there is only way for salvation that is Nama sangeerthanam.

chating bhagavan nama will remove our sin and make mind pure to attain god.

this is the only way for all people of the world.

[pseusawbappem]

Hi shanthi,

Anybody can reform a religion.There is no need to set up certain qualifications of the persons who should reform a religion,nor stipulate parameters about what needs to be reformed and what should not be reformed.

whenever anybody sees any injustice in any religion,he can raise his voice against it.Its upto the people whether to agree with him or not.reforms is a dynamic process,not a static one.

Feel free to call that process as reforms or adaptations,It doesnt matter.What is needed is change.

If we take care of freedom,truth will take care of itself.

[anatmob]

Dear Bhramanyan,

we have the option of sitting and gazing the sky waiting for a reformer or become the reformer ourself.

when i see stupidities like caste and varna,I dont wait for a reformer.I myself become a reformer.

when a dog attacks a child,we dont wait for rajinikanth or vijayakanth to come to the resuce,do we?We ourselves become a hero and save the child.

Similiarly when we see people suffering in the name of religion,we need not wait for reformers.We ourself should become one.

[trubreTab]

Dear Goundamani,

Yes I agree with you. Nobody can stop us from doing good for the Society. As I have already written If some body wants to reform the social customs practiced in the Country those who have the resourses can initiate the reforms that they think fit.

Brahmanyan.

[TerriLS]

Friends,

Hinduism and ofcourse hindus always used to adopt the changes. Not like other Abrahamic religions, where trying to analyse the golden rules itself is prohibited. (Suspecting Allah and the prophetness of Mohammad is not "Imaan" in Islaam).

Hinduism is a beautiful way of living. It allows us to be what we are. This is the only religion where anyone can try to explain their religions experiences. Noone will give FATWA

[casinobonyanes]

Hi shanthi,

Anybody can reform a religion.There is no need to set up certain qualifications of the persons who should reform a religion,nor stipulate parameters about what needs to be reformed and what should not be reformed.

whenever anybody sees any injustice in any religion,he can raise his voice against it.Its upto the people whether to agree with him or not.reforms is a dynamic process,not a static one.

Feel free to call that process as reforms or adaptations,It doesnt matter.What is needed is change.

If we take care of freedom,truth will take care of itself.

"Anybody can reform a religion.There is no need to set up certain qualifications of the persons who should reform a religion,nor stipulate parameters about what needs to be reformed and what should not be reformed."
Anybody with a silver prince ( or 777 or wilkinson) blade and coates thread and TVS needle can perform a surgery.
Anybody with a kolthu can become a kolthukarar or an engineer and build dams and bridges and airplanes.
Similarly, any TOM, DICK, and HARRY can reform a religion without knowing the philosophies, and scriptures and rituals. What all one needs is a mouth to bash brahmins and it will be immediately called a reform.

[Buildityrit]

Anybody with a silver prince ( or 777 or wilkinson) blade and coates thread and TVS needle can perform a surgery.Anybody with a kolthu can become a kolthukarar or an engineer and build dams and bridges and airplanes.
Similarly, any TOM, DICK, and HARRY can reform a religion without knowing the philosophies, and scriptures and rituals. What all one needs is a mouth to bash brahmins and it will be immediately called a reform.

To oppose usama binalden's atrocities should one be an expert in quran and islam?To oppose forcible conversions by missionaries should one be an expert in Bible?

[jstizzle]

To oppose usama binalden's atrocities should one be an expert in quran and islam?To oppose forcible conversions by missionaries should one be an expert in Bible?

Do you think, the other way is also possible? that atrocities were originally performed to "reform" others with the half baked knowledge one has?

[Kilaoksrsa]

Do you think, the other way is also possible? that atrocities were originally performed to "reform" others with the half baked knowledge one has?

That possibility too is there.In Russia and china, communist reformers performed atrocities on the orthodox. But such incidents are far outnumbered by religious fascists who unleashed terror and violence on the innocent for centuries.eg:Taliban,jihadis,crusaders and proponents of varnashrama.

[exschke]

That possibility too is there.In Russia and china, communist reformers performed atrocities on the orthodox. But such incidents are far outnumbered by religious fascists who unleashed terror and violence on the innocent for centuries.eg:Taliban,jihadis,crusaders and proponents of varnashrama.

Religious intolerance itself is a result of trying to "reform" the person belonging to another religion or has a different point of view.

So anything with the view that "my view is right-all others are wrong" leads to conflict. Hinduism has taught tolerance towards other religions. Hinduism is one of the religions that talks about the equality of women.

I dont understand your quote about the violence uleashed by varnashrama followers. The very fact that you sit in a cozy comfortable place, and throw mud on hinduism alone indicates how much of freedom it allows the so called followers to throw mud on itself.
Do you have any historic facts on the violence unleashed by varnashrama followers? If so please quote. Otherwise dont make unwanted statements.

It requires a Shankara, or a Ramanuja, or a Madhwa to formulate a philosphy and reform a religion. Not the politically motivated power hungry, casteist, corrupt politicians, or the people who sit in A/C rooms and type these.

Afterall, thalapa katti, meesa vachavan ellam bharathi aayida mudiyathu.

[PNCarl]

Religious intolerance itself is a result of trying to "reform" the person belonging to another religion or has a different point of view.

So anything with the view that "my view is right-all others are wrong" leads to conflict. Hinduism has taught tolerance towards other religions. Hinduism is one of the religions that talks about the equality of women.

Ofcourse reforms lead to conflict.If dalits remain in slums and dont come to schools,colleges or temples there wonnt be any conflicts.If they still salute the devar and vanniyar castes,take their chappels in hands while they walk in streets and stop demanding that their corpses should be burnt in the public burial ground, there wont be any caste based conflicts or fights.

So I do agree that if the above said reforms did not happen,there wouldnt have been any conflicts at all.total peace would have prevailed in the country.Reforms do lead to intolerance towards casteism and oppression.Upper castes do have a "different view" about allowing dalits on streets, temples and schools and reformers do argue "I am right, you are wrong".I agree with this.

Reforms are not meant to be peaceful.They arent supposed to use "goody-goody" words like 'All are right,you are right,I am right,he is right" etc.Reformers are not supposed to preach tolerance.They are supposed to create conflicts and struggles.

I dont understand your quote about the violence uleashed by varnashrama followers. The very fact that you sit in a cozy comfortable place, and throw mud on hinduism alone indicates how much of freedom it allows the so called followers to throw mud on itself.
Do you have any historic facts on the violence unleashed by varnashrama followers? If so please quote. Otherwise dont make unwanted statements.

Let me tell you one example.

In 19th century, Sanar women(nadar community women) were not permitted to wear any dress on their upper body.Their men remained illiterate and uneducated and climbed palm trees to survive.Then one day nadar women started fighting for the right to wear saree.They organized a movement which was called as "thol seelai poorattam(தோள்சீலை போரட்டம்).This movement just asked for the rights to wear saree on their shoulders.

Uppercastes in kerala and tamilnadu violently opposed this right.Then king of kerala (swathi thirunal's brother) oppressed this movement with an iron fist.Many sanars were killed, burnt and hacked into pieces.Then finally british government intervened and ordered the king to grant that right.So finally the king passed an order permitting that these women can cover their upperbody with a saree,but that dress should be 'different from higher caste women'.

You asked an incident,so I gave one.If you want 1000 incidents,I can give them.Should I quote pappapatti,keeripatti or thinniyam were a dalit was forced to eat shit by devar community people?

In fact if one just sees that 15% of indian population are reduced to poverty and have been made to live in slums, eating dead cows and animals,without education and healthcare and doing menial jobs like toilet cleaning, even washing mensus clothes of caste hindu women and cleaning streets for generations together-one wouldnt ask what violence was perpetuated in name of varnashrama.

It is an ongoing violence which is continuing even after thousands of years

It requires a Shankara, or a Ramanuja, or a Madhwa to formulate a philosphy and reform a religion. Not the politically motivated power hungry, casteist, corrupt politicians, or the people who sit in A/C rooms and type these.

Afterall, thalapa katti, meesa vachavan ellam bharathi aayida mudiyathu.

Take the example of the sanar women's struggle which I mentioned earlier.What should have they done?should they have waited for a shankara or ramanuja?

They waited for centuries.None came.

The only people who came to reform the atrocities were british.British werent knolwedgable in vedas and shastras.They did not wear a thalappa and moustache like bharathi.

What should have the sanar women done?Sit and gaze at the sky waiting for a devathootha to reform their religion or accept the help of British?

To reform a religion,one needs only a thinking brain and a merciful heart.Nothing more is needed.

[adoreorerie]

Dear Goundamani:
Without going into the merits of the discussions between you and Kudumi (by the way, both of you are excellent writers!), I do agree with you that reforms must be carried out for the good of the community and it WILL have resistance and lead to conflicts.
Anyway, the reason for my posting is not for that. Now that I am in Chennai for the last two months, I have learnt about the political parties here. Your statement in Red above caught my attention. Is this true even today? If this is so, then how can Mr. Karunanidhi, the champion of dalits, associate with that party, PMK? Even the PMK founder beats his chest about how they are for the under-privileged and oppressed. The interesting thing is noone i spoke to don't know what this party stands for!

On another note, I was elated about Mr. Balakrishnan, a dalit, being made the Chief Justice of India, and that, too, not by reservation, mind you!!

[moohassinny]

Dear silverfox,

DMk is not the champion of dalit rights.That's a misnomer.DMK tragets BC's, MBC's,christian and muslims.Dalits have traditionally been with ADMk.

After PMk and dalit panthers came to the scene, MBC's(vanniyar) moved away to PMK and dalits moved away to dalit panthers and puthiya thamizakam.So the vote banks of these parties eroded.

Even though a section of vanniyars illtreat dalits, PMK's ramdoss tries his level best to stop this atrocity.He has an alliance with dalith panthers thirumavalavan.

Before some years in a village called kudithangi when a dalit's corpse was refused entry into vanniyar streets by vanniyars,PMK ramdoss went to that village and carried the corpse in his shoulders and took it in the vanniyar streets into the burial ground.As a result thirumavalavan gave him the title "tamil kudithangi" in a meeting.

I am no admirer of ramdoss,but I really like such gestures from our political leaders.Late MGR too did a similiar thing with a dalith's corpse.

[BrianGoldsmith]

Not withstanding the goody-goody post by Mr. Goundamani, the reality is quite different. And also, the so-called good relations between Vanniyar-Dalit communities and the saintly aspects of Ramadoss is a major misrepresentation of the facts. He primarily rose on the backs of violence against Dalits and Govt property including burning of buses, blocking of highways by cutting trees, burning tyres, attacking villagers with sickles in groups etc. In the late 80's almost 25,000 Dalit huts were burnt and Dalits attacked and made homeless and some killed during the Vanniyar agitation led by Mr. Ramadoss.

Check the following article about the Dalit-Vanniyar conflicts from last year. Does not seem so rosy to me. Looks more like a temporary truce between the two communities for now. By the way the two-tumbler system is still intact, wonder why Ramadoss does not reform his caste first before asking Brahmins to reform themselves.

http://www.hindu.com/2006/04/20/stor...2005411300.htm

But of course after burning Dalits huts, they will turn around and blame Brahmins and ask for reservations in the name of social justice!

Also, this Ramadoss asked to separate TN into two states in 2002 (primarily Vanniar dominated districts), and wanted a Vanniar to be the Chief Minister. If that is not casteist, I do not know what is. And they have been reaping the benefits of MBC reservations, pushing aside other MBCs. No wonder he is against the exclusion of the affluent layer, the first casualty will be his votebank who are snatching opportunities from other castes.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1917/19170400.htm

And rightly so, Thol Thirumavalavan fought against this separatist demand because he knew what it would entail for the Dalits who ended up in that state. Here is another link to his interview in 2002:

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/aug/12inter.htm

And lastly, the following is a fascinating look into the whole Dravidian movement, which was primarily an upper-caste Non-Brahmin movement against the domination of the Brahmins who rose to prominence during British rule as administrators and judges.


http://www.tamilnation.org/caste/nambi.htm