[expabsPapsgag]

Neither Ramdoss nor thirumavalavan created castes. Both of them started parties for their respective castes,because they felt that their castes were backward. When they opposed each other,it automatically happened that the fight between two parties became fight between two castes.For example in the Hindu cite you had given,they have written about chidambaram violence against dalits in 1999.At that election thiruma contested from chidambaram and ponnusamy from PMk opposed him.electoral clashes emerged and when PMK attacked dalith panthers members,it automatically became vanniyars attacking dalits.

I am not arguing that Ramdoss did not do caste based politics.I would only say that caste based politics arose because there are castes. Caste based fights arise because there are castes. When two caste based parties are strong in same area and they become rivals,naturally there will be caste wars.

After allying with thiruma,the situation in northern districts is far better. Although it hasnt absolutely stopped the violence between these two castes, in long run we can hope that it happens.

Ramdoss indeed ask for a seperate tamilnadu.But he did so because his party is strong in northern districts.And his party is strong in northern districts because it is vanniyar belt.And since 99.99% of his partymen are vanniyars,only a vanniyar can become CM. So this is a chicken first or egg first type of problem.

Some time back,you asked for seperate union territory for brahmins, so I guess there is nothing wrong in such demands.And naturally if such a union territor emerges,I guess that only a brahmin will become chief minister

But after allying with thiruma,ramdoss said 'If PMK captures power,thambi thiruma will become CM"

[Onervemurce]

Now that the truth is exposed behind the saint Mr. Ramadoss, I have one question. If I were to tell some guy, go jump off a cliff, would a person not be extremely foolish to do so? Similarly, since Brahmins have not been in power for more than 50 years, why don't the Vanniars and Dalits demonstrate their superior morals and culture by ensuring that all Vanniar girls marry Dalit men and vice versa? Who is going to stop them? Brahmins? No. Govt? No, Karu will probably welcome it. So unlike Brahmins, who we all accept are corrupt and casteist and will not intermarry, why don't all the other enlightened "oppressed" castes, who by the way have entrenched political and police power, show the way to a caste free society?

Is it maybe because the Brahmins were just the excuse, and that groupism is inbuilt into human thinking? Hypocrites and apologists abound everywhere, dodging personal responsibility. They do what they want anyway, and blame someone else for their own failings. And regarding the demand for a separate state for Tambrams, hey I am just following in the footsteps of the saint Ramadoss! He is the Guru, and I am the Shishya.
I learn from our leaders in society

[SkHukV3N]

Dear Mrifan,

Vanniyars and dalits have become brothers now.Let us hope that they will soon become become maman machan by inter caste marriages .

The problem has never been with brahmins. It was with varnashrama. Not all brahmins follow varnashrama. But somehow varnashrama deeply got into the minds of people and it is very difficult to uproot a concept like this within 50 or 100 years.To tell an example it will be easy for a vanniyar family to accept a daughter in law from muthaliyar or pillai family, which is hierarchically ahead of them in varnashrama hierarchy.But the same vanniyar family will not accept a dalit women as their daughter in law.

Varnshrama is slowly being replaced by hinduism.Thankfully this process will speed up due to urbanization and globalization.

And all the best for shishya and guru in their endeavors to get two seperate states

[isogeople]

Now that the truth is exposed behind the saint Mr. Ramadoss, I have one question. If I were to tell some guy, go jump off a cliff, would a person not be extremely foolish to do so? Similarly, since Brahmins have not been in power for more than 50 years, why don't the Vanniars and Dalits demonstrate their superior morals and culture by ensuring that all Vanniar girls marry Dalit men and vice versa? Who is going to stop them? Brahmins? No. Govt? No, Karu will probably welcome it. So unlike Brahmins, who we all accept are corrupt and casteist and will not intermarry, why don't all the other enlightened "oppressed" castes, who by the way have entrenched political and police power, show the way to a caste free society?

Is it maybe because the Brahmins were just the excuse, and that groupism is inbuilt into human thinking? Hypocrites and apologists abound everywhere, dodging personal responsibility. They do what they want anyway, and blame someone else for their own failings. And regarding the demand for a separate state for Tambrams, hey I am just following in the footsteps of the saint Ramadoss! He is the Guru, and I am the Shishya.
I learn from our leaders in society

Dear mrifan:
I love your arguments and statement of facts. If I ever stood for election, I would like to take you as my spokesman!! (That was a back-handed compliment to you; I cannot stand for election in India anyway!!)

[pedFlicle]

dear members,
all these people talking rational things and against superstitions-mooda kadavul nambikkai- should introspect and find out in which group female foeticide is carried out, why they want fair girls as brides thereafter?
pl reply folks.
regards
eswaran

[GVsdJZ2H]

dear members,
all these people talking rational things and against superstitions-mooda kadavul nambikkai- should introspect and find out in which group female foeticide is carried out, why they want fair girls as brides thereafter?
pl reply folks.
regards
eswaran

Dear Shri Eshwaran,

Female foeticide is carried out by educated barbarians,who hate girl children.That practice is banned legally.

Fair girls as brides? I agree that I have seen many ads in Hindu asking for "fair, wheatish" brides and bridegrooms.Actually this goes with the typical tamilan's mindset that fair is good and black is bad.Many tamils spend lots of time and money in buying talcum powder and creams like fair and lovely Makes no sense to me though.

[masaredera]

Dear Goundamani/Navy-Easwaran:

Speaking of being fair, is it my imagination or does Mr. Karunanidhi really look somewhat fair (relatively speaking!)? And, what about his grandson, Mr. Maran? How can I miss them? Every newspaper I open, every tv channel I see, those two are always there, opening this, cutting ribbon that, or be seen with Swamis and giving rational explanation for that, .... list goes on!!!
Boy! Tamil politics!! ain't it grand! Nobody gives a damn!

[Stetbrate]

Silverfox,

yes.MK is somewhat relatively fair.His grandson dayanithi maran looks like a caucasian white at times Maybe he applies more talcum powder or its because of camera falshlights, god knows what:-)

[jhkjurter]

Silverfox,

yes.MK is somewhat relatively fair.His grandson dayanithi maran looks like a caucasian white at times Maybe he applies more talcum powder or its because of camera falshlights, god knows what:-)

Dear Goundamani:

Doesn't this mean that he is NOT a true Dravidian? He is a mixture of Aryan and Dravidian? (without going to the merits of this Aryan theory!!)

[11Woxsepmoomo]

dear sirs,
even the filmies in koliwood wants fair dames as heroine and import them from north and rest of us kill the girl child before or after birth.
regards
eswaran

[DuesTyr]

Dear Goundamani:

Doesn't this mean that he is NOT a true Dravidian? He is a mixture of Aryan and Dravidian? (without going to the merits of this Aryan theory!!)

Dear Silver fox,

Mk's family has lots of lntercaste marriages.Murasoli maran might have done intercaste marriage too(not sure).

[jaydicassdhy]

goundamani sir,
you have made a sweeping assertion,that 15% of our population eats dead cows,cleans toilets and washes mensus clothes of upper caste women.

Though this was( is) done(still done) by some groups,it was(is) not even remotely close to 15%.something near 1% might be the correct figure.night soil cleaning was a practice unknown before the muslim and british period.

In Tamilnadu,pallans had serious debilities,some social but more due to the fact they were agricultural landless labourers.

I oppose discrimination on grounds of birth,but economic differentiation seems to the main reason for emergence of pallar castes.

[chuecalovers]

goundamani sir,
i want to share a goundamani joke.

"aka nanuru,pura nanuru nu pesaranga, eranuru,munnuru vangaranga

[Preorbtat]

goundamani sir,
you have made a sweeping assertion,that 15% of our population eats dead cows,cleans toilets and washes mensus clothes of upper caste women.

Though this was( is) done(still done) by some groups,it was(is) not even remotely close to 15%.something near 1% might be the correct figure.night soil cleaning was a practice unknown before the muslim and british period.

In Tamilnadu,pallans had serious debilities,some social but more due to the fact they were agricultural landless labourers.

I oppose discrimination on grounds of birth,but economic differentiation seems to the main reason for emergence of pallar castes.

Dear Pappan,

Some dalits cleaned toilets, some were washermen, some were barbers, some climbed palm trees to make toddy, some were butchers, some had robbery as their job, some cleaned streets .I dont know what percent of dalits did some what decent jobs, but even those jobs had very bad working conditions and they lived like prisoners in their huts.

Toilet cleaning came to India only after muslims came here,but the people who cleaned toilets were already downtrodden.I dont know what their earlier job was, but I dont think that it would have been a decent profession.

Discrimination by birth and varnashrama have thrown dalits to the current situation.Rest of us should help them by education and destruction of castes.

[Ephedrine]

The Isai Vellalar community is small, fewer in numbers compared to Brahmanas, probably of Telugu origin. If the Marans/MK trace their lineage back a couple of hunded years, they might find they are not from the current geographical TN region. People may not know this, but M.S. Subbulakshmi was the daughter of Madurai Shanmugavadivu (hence MS), an Isai Vellalar veenai musician, and Srinivasan, a Brahmin. She was of course quite fair. Her husband, Sadasivam, also a Brahmin (Kalki Sadasivam), married her after seeing her in a concert and getting infatuated.

[Solo3uc4]

I guess there shud b an economic angle also behind this. Ppl doing this kind of jobs might not hav earned more and hence their heirs will be forced to do this.....And I guess this is very much past...Today no one is forcing anyone to do a particular job. Its upto their ability.We have to bear in mind that there is discrimination everywhere depending on the job(may be sometimes within the family ).Its because of people dont understand to respect the sentiments of others. I guess its hard to believe only varnashrama is responsible for thousand of castes in India!!!How it wud hav done it....Or name it.....Maintain it .....If one goes to another place y cannot lie...What i want to say is most people believed in caste system.So it existed.Today also many people believe in caste system.So it exists(Otherwise so many ppl can lie and become another caste.So many wud hav done intercaste marriages).But I truly believe the discrimination now is lower on Dalits by other castes. And we can eliminate the discrimination easily rather than caste.

Dear Pappan,

Some dalits cleaned toilets, some were washermen, some were barbers, some climbed palm trees to make toddy, some were butchers, some had robbery as their job, some cleaned streets .I dont know what percent of dalits did some what decent jobs, but even those jobs had very bad working conditions and they lived like prisoners in their huts.

Toilet cleaning came to India only after muslims came here,but the people who cleaned toilets were already downtrodden.I dont know what their earlier job was, but I dont think that it would have been a decent profession.

Discrimination by birth and varnashrama have thrown dalits to the current situation.Rest of us should help them by education and destruction of castes.

[Haremporblape]

Read somewhere Marans wife was semibrahmin and Dhayanithi is married to a Brahmin (N.Ram's relative??)

Dear Silver fox,

Mk's family has lots of lntercaste marriages.Murasoli maran might have done intercaste marriage too(not sure).

[loyalgagora]

I guess fairness or complexion not only based on genetics.....We have so many gud looking people from all castes. I think some percentage of naturality and environmental factors are also involved in it.

Dear Silver fox,

Mk's family has lots of lntercaste marriages.Murasoli maran might have done intercaste marriage too(not sure).