[EzequielTMann]

asalamau alaykum

I have seen so many arguments about the topic "if a woman wears hijab that doesn't make her better than a woman who does not wear hijab" then the rest of the conversations go along the lines of

..."i've seen women in hijab not practisng other assets of islam"...

..."Allah swt judges ur intentions"...

..."not wearing hijab doesnt make me any less of a muslim"..

..."how much we cover doesnt show how much emaan we have"...

..."its for Allah to judge"...

..."ive seen a woman in hijab with tight clothes and a woman without hijab in loose clothes"...

My question is are these points valid because in my opinion even if a woman covers in hijab even with tight clothes she is still technically covering what shes supposed to while a woman with no hijab on is not covering (if that makes sense) What are other people views on this?

[fereupfer]

If she is wearing tight or revealing clothing, then she is not wearing hijaab since hijaab does not translate into 'headscarf'. Hijaab is covering and this has conditions, such as loose clothing so that the shape of the body cannot be seen. So if someone is wearing tight jeans or a skirt whilst wearing a headscarf, she is not wearing hijab- she is just wearing a headscarf. Hijaab is an obligation without a doubt and anyone who denies it has left Islam.

Allah does not only judge our intentions but he also judges our actions. So those who say He judges our intentions are trying to be misleading. Not only that, what is the intention of the one who does not wear hijaab? Isn't it her intention to purposefully disobey her Lord, in which case, how does she think He will judge her? The 'Allah judges our intentions' excuse can be used for anything. I could steal everything you own and say 'Allah judges my intention' but it doesn't make the theft OK.

And when they say not wearing hijaab doesn't make them any less of a Muslim, that is correct, but it makes them a faasiq (sinner) Muslim in the eyes of the Sharia and whoever is content with being an open sinner has their priorities messed up.

[dianakroshXX]

JazakAllah khair Ahmad12 thats exactly the answer i was looking for, i didnt know how to reply to those responses. such madness over hijab obligatory is obligatory aand sin is sin people cant accept when they are told they are sinning

[tgs]

its same with the beard in mens

[xqdrocherz]

One of the main purposes of hijab is so males don't go "crazy" looking at females.

1. If a female is wearing a shiny, colorful headscarf with tight clothes - she's not doing hijab. Males can and will find this female to be "sexy", "beautiful", etc, just as much as they would find a female who was half uncovered to be all of that.

2. If a female is wearing loose clothes with a dull colored scarf but her face shows, a male ends up looking at the face and finds it to be beautiful and it gets stuck in his head and it makes him think more about this female in an inappropriate manner - she's not doing hijab properly. Same principle applies if she is attracting attention by wearing loose but colorful, attention-attracting clothes, and also in other ways such as having colorfully painted nails, wearing provocative shoes, etc.

3. If a female is wearing a completely black, loose burqa with niqab and everything, and she has not done anything whatsoever to attract attention from males... The only parts of her body which show are hands and eyes, and even those just barely. Now you get a male saying something like "wow her hands are so pretty, she must be beautiful", or "it seems to me there's a nice body hidden behind that burqa"; well, then, as a Scholar said while giving a bayan at our local Masjid recently, these are people who shaytaan is riding hard and they are not able to rid themselves of shaytaan for even a single moment. In this situation, the female has done what she can to protect her modesty and not attract the wrong kind of attention, and the blame is on the male alone.

In the first 2 situations, while there is certainly blame on the male who chooses to keep looking at the female instead of guarding his gaze and trying to rid himself of inappropriate thoughts, the blame is also shared by the female because she provoked the male to produce this response, when she could have done more to prevent it. In situation # 2, it's very possible that the female may not realize this is happening and she may be naive about it, and maybe she would do even more to cover herself if she knew that guys are still getting "turned on" by her. However, in situation # 1, this female is no different than any other immodest type female who walks around the streets wearing skimpy clothes so guys will "check her out". The female in situation # 1 has no excuse.

In the last situation, the female has seemingly done the most which can be done, and has not done anything to attract attention to provoke such a response from the male. In this situation, the blame would be completely on the male and the female would be clear of any blame.

The above are my personal opinions and I am not a scholar.

Allah knows best.

[eduptultyt]

One of the main purposes of hijab is so males don't go "crazy" looking at females.

1. If a female is wearing a shiny, colorful headscarf with tight clothes - she's not doing hijab. Males can and will find this female to be "sexy", "beautiful", etc, just as much as they would find a female who was half uncovered to be all of that.

2. If a female is wearing loose clothes with a dull colored scarf but her face shows, a male ends up looking at the face and finds it to be beautiful and it gets stuck in his head and it makes him think more about this female in an inappropriate manner - she's not doing hijab properly. Same principle applies if she is attracting attention by wearing loose but colorful, attention-attracting clothes, and also in other ways such as having colorfully painted nails, wearing provocative shoes, etc.

3. If a female is wearing a completely black, loose burqa with niqab and everything, and she has not done anything whatsoever to attract attention from males... The only parts of her body which show are hands and eyes, and even those just barely. Now you get a male saying something like "wow her hands are so pretty, she must be beautiful", or "it seems to me there's a nice body hidden behind that burqa"; well, then, as a Scholar said while giving a bayan at our local Masjid recently, these are people who shaytaan is riding hard and they are not able to rid themselves of shaytaan for even a single moment. In this situation, the female has done what she can to protect her modesty and not attract the wrong kind of attention, and the blame is on the male alone.

In the first 2 situations, while there is certainly blame on the male who chooses to keep looking at the female instead of guarding his gaze and trying to rid himself of inappropriate thoughts, the blame is also shared by the female because she provoked the male to produce this response, when she could have done more to prevent it. In situation # 2, it's very possible that the female may not realize this is happening and she may be naive about it, and maybe she would do even more to cover herself if she knew that guys are still getting "turned on" by her. However, in situation # 1, this female is no different than any other immodest type female who walks around the streets wearing skimpy clothes so guys will "check her out". The female in situation # 1 has no excuse.

In the last situation, the female has seemingly done the most which can be done, and has not done anything to attract attention to provoke such a response from the male. In this situation, the blame would be completely on the male and the female would be clear of any blame.

The above are my personal opinions and I am not a scholar.

Allah knows best.

Brother, I think you have never seen a woman in your life, if your comment is what you think. Yes the Hijab is a loose garment, which covers. But to put the blame on the woman AT ALL for the 2nd situation is a bit extreme to say the least. If a women wears a loose garment, covers her hair... that is enough... based on logic. Maybe you have ultra levels of testosterone and find even a toe being shown a bit too much, but to blame women for your weakness is strange.

It reminds me of those "scholars" who blame the women who is raped for wearing a hijab but with jeans , that she "was asking for it". Yes if the woman is openly walking around half exposed and guys treat her like a piece of meat that is partly her fault too, but when there is a Muslim sister who is covered, to blame even a tiny bit on her is a problem with your weakness. May Allah help the brothers who are extremely weak.

[LSg44PDu]

Brother, I think you have never seen a woman in your life, if your comment is what you think. Yes the Hijab is a loose garment, which covers. But to put the blame on the woman AT ALL for the 2nd situation is a bit extreme to say the least. If a women wears a loose garment, covers her hair... that is enough... based on logic. Maybe you have ultra levels of testosterone and find even a toe being shown a bit too much, but to blame women for your weakness is strange.

It reminds me of those "scholars" who blame the women who is raped for wearing a hijab but with jeans , that she "was asking for it". Yes if the woman is openly walking around half exposed and guys treat her like a piece of meat that is partly her fault too, but when there is a Muslim sister who is covered, to blame even a tiny bit on her is a problem with your weakness. May Allah help the brothers who are extremely weak.

You're missing the point. If there are predators walking around, why would you carry a steak on you? That is why in basically all the madhahib, the level of fitna directly correlates with how covered a woman should be or if she should be allowed to leave the house at all. The primary blame of course lies with those who would rape and attack women, but if a woman knows that if her showing her face or wearing jeans will attract unwanted attention, should she not be more covered? In the Shafi'i madhhab, according to some scholars, it becomes obligatory on beautiful women to wear niqab because they're beautiful. Is it their "fault" that they're beautiful? Of course not. But if a woman is beautiful, she will attract unwanted attention, from both those people who aren't obsessed with sex and those who are, even if she is wearing what would be considered proper hijab but the rules change when there is fitnah around and that "proper" hijab would not be proper because of the fitnah.

And are you seriously trying to compare loose garments with jeans? Jeans are really form fitting. Some ulama even say that men shouldn't wear jeans and tight pants without wearing a long shirt over it so what makes you think it is in any way permissible for women to wear them in public?

[Tinasblue]

Bismihi Ta’ala

Wa-alaykumus Salaam waRahmatullah

Dear Sister in Islam,

1.) Having read your post, and the different excuses presented by some women (which are common excuses) – and I thought of sharing two excellent analogies conveyed to us by my respected teacher, Shaykh Yunus Patel (RA) :

> Hazrat Maulana had presented the example of a bird. If a bird has a sound heart, but its wings are clipped, it will never soar.

Similarly, if a Muslim claims to have a “sound” or “clean” heart, but does not have the attire and identity of the Muslim, then that Muslim will never soar spiritually.

> Hazrat Maulana (RA) also gave the example: If there is a brand new Boeing on the tarmac and passengers have boarded for flight, and the engine is in perfect condition, but just one small wheel is punctured, the plane will never take off.

Similarly, if a Muslim claims to have an excellent heart, but his or her ‘zaahir’ is not right, then the person will not take flight, spiritually. Because he or she has punctured the Zaahir (outward appearance).

2.) There are so many valid points to counter those reasons and excuses.

It takes perhaps a few minutes to put the Zaahir right : How long does it take us to wear a burqa, niqaab, jilbaab? - just a few minutes.

But it takes, sometimes, a lifetime, to work on the Baatin – i.e. to reform the nafs and to purify the heart. Correcting the Zaahir, facilitates ease in correcting the Baatin. This is the great impact our clothing has on our spirituality.

If a woman is in Hijaab and Niqaab, or a man wears the Sunnah Libaas, she or he will think many, many times before going to a venue of sin, i.e. if there is that temptation. The dressing thus becomes a barrier between the Muslim and sins : A barrier between us and cinemas, clubs, casinos, and other Haraam establishments.

We would not want to be seen at such venues because of what our dressing represents.

And when we stay away from the venues of sins, we stay away from sins, and when we stay away from sins, we improve on our Taqwa. SubhanAllah.

3.) The Hadeeth makes clear that Hayaa (shame and modesty) is a branch of Imaan – highlighting the great importance of modesty – in our dress, in our speech, in our actions, in our heart and mind – in everything. It is not confined to just one aspect of our lives. It covers the entire spectrum of our lives. But the easiest to start with is our dressing - which then influences everything else.

4.) Another point comes to mind: My respected Shaykh presented the example of 400 men in a gathering and ONLY ONE is wearing a kurta, topee and has a fist length beard, etc. The rest are all in suit and tie. If you were to tell a 4 year old child : Make Salaam to the ones you recognize as Muslims.

The 4 year old will make Salaam first and foremost to the one whom he RECOGNIZES as a Muslim – the one who is dressed in the Sunnah Libaas. He will, in all probability, not even consider the rest.

So even if the 399 in suit and tie are Muslim, they will not be recipient to that Salaam because they have not been recognized as Muslim.
The same with women.

5.) The different excuses by women, not to wear the Hijaab, are the excuses of nafs and the whisperings of Shaytaan. The condition of a true and sincere Muslimah is the deep-hearted aspiration to conform to the Pleasure of Allah Ta’ala. May Allah Ta'ala make us true and sincere.

In the time of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu ‘alayhi waSallam), not one of his pure wives, his chaste daughters or the pious Believing women who were part of his noble company, understood Hijaab as something other than veiling. They were all veiled and their garments were modest and loose.

Then which one of us today, can be so bold and audacious to claim to have a purer heart than the Ummahatul Mu`mineen? And can thus walk about without Hijaab?

The need is to acknowledge weakness and not justify it.

It is only when in Hijaab, does a woman realize its beauty, its protection, its benefits, its blessings.

6.) Every aspect and every teaching of Islam is BEAUTIFUL beyond words. The weakness is with us – Never with Islam.

May Allah Ta’ala give us all the understanding and appreciation.

JazakAllah khayr
Was-Salaam

[Xtatotvk]

Men should lower their gaze- NO MATTER what women wear.
Women should cover themselves- NO MATTER if men are looking or not.
WHY? Because it is the command of Allah(swt)

[lorrieholdridge]

JazakAllah khair ofr all your answers

[casinochniks]

Bismihi Ta'ala

The Command to lower the gaze is equally applicable to women. Women too should not be casting evil gazes and admiring ghayr-mahareem.

Allah Ta'ala states :

“Tell the Believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at that which is Haraam)
and to be Modest (i.e. to protect themselves from prohibited deeds like adultery and fornication).
That is purer for them. Verily Allah is Aware of what they do."


“And tell the Believing Women to lower their gaze (from looking at that which is forbidden)
and to be modest (i.e. to protect themselves from prohibited deeds like adultery, fornication, etc.)..."

[SURAH NUR 24 : 29/ 30]

[searkibia]

You're missing the point. If there are predators walking around, why would you carry a steak on you? That is why in basically all the madhahib, the level of fitna directly correlates with how covered a woman should be or if she should be allowed to leave the house at all. The primary blame of course lies with those who would rape and attack women, but if a woman knows that if her showing her face or wearing jeans will attract unwanted attention, should she not be more covered? In the Shafi'i madhhab, according to some scholars, it becomes obligatory on beautiful women to wear niqab because they're beautiful. Is it their "fault" that they're beautiful? Of course not. But if a woman is beautiful, she will attract unwanted attention, from both those people who aren't obsessed with sex and those who are, even if she is wearing what would be considered proper hijab but the rules change when there is fitnah around and that "proper" hijab would not be proper because of the fitnah.

And are you seriously trying to compare loose garments with jeans? Jeans are really form fitting. Some ulama even say that men shouldn't wear jeans and tight pants without wearing a long shirt over it so what makes you think it is in any way permissible for women to wear them in public?

Brother, i know men can be attracted by a tiny bit and I know we are all full of testosterone. My point was not that it is OK to allow women to walk around how they like, just as men are not either. My point was to the brother who was saying the blame would "partly" fall on the sister who was showing her FACE. I understand men can be mesmerised by beautiful women and it is the biggest weakness of men but I don't think women are to blame that was my point.


I never compared loose garments with jeans, I mentioned jeans as jeans are wrong for women (and men) to wear on there own (without a covering over it). And a lot of sisters wear jeans without a covering over it with a headscarf and I was saying some scholars have blamed these sisters for allowing a rape to happen because they were wearing jeans.That was my point.

Of course I know jeans are not a loose garment.

[crestosssa]

Brother, I think you have never seen a woman in your life,

LOL

[F1grandprix]

Brother, I think you have never seen a woman in your life, if your comment is what you think. Yes the Hijab is a loose garment, which covers. But to put the blame on the woman AT ALL for the 2nd situation is a bit extreme to say the least. If a women wears a loose garment, covers her hair... that is enough... based on logic. Maybe you have ultra levels of testosterone and find even a toe being shown a bit too much, but to blame women for your weakness is strange.

It reminds me of those "scholars" who blame the women who is raped for wearing a hijab but with jeans , that she "was asking for it". Yes if the woman is openly walking around half exposed and guys treat her like a piece of meat that is partly her fault too, but when there is a Muslim sister who is covered, to blame even a tiny bit on her is a problem with your weakness. May Allah help the brothers who are extremely weak.

Salams I agree with you here say 95% except the rape bit as most rapes are not through sexual desire and most have nothing to do with what a women is wearing. You can never blame a women for rape.

[JacksHH]

Brother, I think you have never seen a woman in your life, if your comment is what you think. Yes the Hijab is a loose garment, which covers. But to put the blame on the woman AT ALL for the 2nd situation is a bit extreme to say the least. If a women wears a loose garment, covers her hair... that is enough... based on logic. Maybe you have ultra levels of testosterone and find even a toe being shown a bit too much, but to blame women for your weakness is strange.

It reminds me of those "scholars" who blame the women who is raped for wearing a hijab but with jeans , that she "was asking for it". Yes if the woman is openly walking around half exposed and guys treat her like a piece of meat that is partly her fault too, but when there is a Muslim sister who is covered, to blame even a tiny bit on her is a problem with your weakness. May Allah help the brothers who are extremely weak.

You're missing the point. If there are predators walking around, why would you carry a steak on you? That is why in basically all the madhahib, the level of fitna directly correlates with how covered a woman should be or if she should be allowed to leave the house at all. The primary blame of course lies with those who would rape and attack women, but if a woman knows that if her showing her face or wearing jeans will attract unwanted attention, should she not be more covered? In the Shafi'i madhhab, according to some scholars, it becomes obligatory on beautiful women to wear niqab because they're beautiful. Is it their "fault" that they're beautiful? Of course not. But if a woman is beautiful, she will attract unwanted attention, from both those people who aren't obsessed with sex and those who are, even if she is wearing what would be considered proper hijab but the rules change when there is fitnah around and that "proper" hijab would not be proper because of the fitnah.

And are you seriously trying to compare loose garments with jeans? Jeans are really form fitting. Some ulama even say that men shouldn't wear jeans and tight pants without wearing a long shirt over it so what makes you think it is in any way permissible for women to wear them in public?

I wear jeans but with a jilbab on top of them so in that sense are jeand wrong?

[harriettvanders]

asalamau alaykum

I have seen so many arguments about the topic "if a woman wears hijab that doesn't make her better than a woman who does not wear hijab" then the rest of the conversations go along the lines of

..."i've seen women in hijab not practisng other assets of islam"...

..."Allah swt judges ur intentions"...

..."not wearing hijab doesnt make me any less of a muslim"..

..."how much we cover doesnt show how much emaan we have"...

..."its for Allah to judge"...

..."ive seen a woman in hijab with tight clothes and a woman without hijab in loose clothes"...

My question is are these points valid because in my opinion even if a woman covers in hijab even with tight clothes she is still technically covering what shes supposed to while a woman with no hijab on is not covering (if that makes sense) What are other people views on this?

Assalamu Alaikum sister

Sunniforum is basically an Orthodox Muslim forum so I think everyone here will explain to you the importance of wearing the Hijab.

Basically it is a Muslim Modernist view that hijab is not necessary.

[Moupponge]

Salams I agree with you here say 95% except the rape bit as most rapes are not through sexual desire and most have nothing to do with what a women is wearing. You can never blame a women for rape.

sister the rape of women by harmful strangers is very definitely primarily caused by the misplaced sexual desire of the rapists.

this can have a great deal to do with what the women is wearing.

many Western women don't realize this but many modern fashion clothes are purposely designed to catch the eyes and arouse the sexual lusts of men.

revealing clothes are never the sole cause of stranger rape but they are definitely one of the contributory factors.

[CoallyPax]

Brother, I think you have never seen a woman in your life, if your comment is what you think. Yes the Hijab is a loose garment, which covers. But to put the blame on the woman AT ALL for the 2nd situation is a bit extreme to say the least. If a women wears a loose garment, covers her hair... that is enough... based on logic. Maybe you have ultra levels of testosterone and find even a toe being shown a bit too much, but to blame women for your weakness is strange.

It reminds me of those "scholars" who blame the women who is raped for wearing a hijab but with jeans , that she "was asking for it". Yes if the woman is openly walking around half exposed and guys treat her like a piece of meat that is partly her fault too, but when there is a Muslim sister who is covered, to blame even a tiny bit on her is a problem with your weakness. May Allah help the brothers who are extremely weak.

Might I just add that women are just as attracted to the male face in the same way men are attracted to ours? Perhaps men should wear niqab too
Like when I meet my husband MarShAllah the first thing I was attracted too was his face and eyes.
I agree to covering the body etc but the face? It's important for human communication, identification and understanding. Like for example today I was walking around town and smiled at another muslimah she smiled back and we exchanged salams. A face covering is too much seclusion. Ive been wearing hijab for 2 months now and and notice that men do not look at me no more, thus my face alone is not attracting unwanted attention. I wear hijab and jilbab it's loose etc. The facial expression tells so much that words cannot. A smile from one muslimah to another could be the start of a friendship. Allah knows best.

[Info-phone]

the concept of hijab or covering = modesty. something misguided people; muslim and non muslim alike need to understand, is that the term "modesty" is relative when applied with the logic of a human being. there are various interpretations of it IF one uses their own logic. the nudist feels they are modest, the woman walking around in a bikini wholeheartedly believes she is modest. the examples go on and on.

as muslims our definition of modesty is dictated not by our own logic of what it should be, but by what Allah and his Rasool pbuh have mandated through Quraan and Sunnah. 1400 years of scholarship has very clearly identified the minimum of what is "modesty", which is what we have known for years and years. in other words, as muslims, our definition of modesty is absolute, not relative.

so, anyone with misguided or other reasons saying jeans with a scarf, or "modest" clothes minus scarf etc are "hijab" has no legitimate viewpoint according to Shariah. they just can't be taken seriously in any way shape or form.

[mr.nemo]

Basically it is a Muslim Modernist view that hijab is not necessary.

"Muslim"? I'd just use "modernist", since such a view contradicts Qur'anic verses and may easily amount to kufr (best get this confirmed from a Mufti, though).