[GrileVege]

inshallah id like to go someday, any recommendations on safe places to go, things to see etc?

also is there a lot of atheism in pakistan or are most of the youth convinced about islam? what about in teh top universities etc, the science students etc?

i saw hamzas debate n it got me thinking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUNPq...eature=related

[Baromaro]

Pakistan is crippled by corruption, mismanagement, poverty and superstition. Still, most people are exceedingly hospitable and generous, especially in rural Punjab. Pakistanis generally have great affection for the Prophet . Angry mobs habitually lynch or beat up people accused of blasphemy. Is atheism on the rise in Pakistan? I have no idea. Very few people would admit to being atheist, obviously. Probably a good idea not to travel alone if you plan to move about much. Stay far away from Waziristan.

[Battwenue]

I'd like to join on the query.
Some brothers gave me a picture of great danger in visiting Pakistan if you're a Muslim foreigner, especially if you have "white" skin, european passport and islamic appareances.
They said you may be arrested and sold to other countries as a "militant"/"terrorist". Just because you're a foreigner visiting a "suspect" country in "suspect" times, even if you weren't doing anything ""wrong""/suspect.

Others say this was true only some years ago, when Musharraf (a military) was in power, while now power is more "soft" and there are no such dangers of violations and abuses by military, being more "democratic/governmental" control over the Army

Please note that I'm asking just regarding visiting Pakistan without intention to join any group or have any training or stuff.
Just normal visits of scholars, mashaykh, madaris etc.

Is it true there are still such dangers?

[swwatch]

i saw hamzas debate n it got me thinking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUNPq...eature=related

After debating with Hamza it is unlikely that Professor Hoodbhuy will face another white Hoodlhum . So that angle is out. But secretly I am wishing for it! (And if Yousuf Al-Kahhatb too joins the pitch then I shall say that more is merrier.)

[vNZsk39B]

inshallah id like to go someday, any recommendations on safe places to go, things to see etc?

also is there a lot of atheism in pakistan or are most of the youth convinced about islam? what about in teh top universities etc, the science students etc?

i saw hamzas debate n it got me thinking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUNPq...eature=related

The safest place for you to visit will indeed be PESHAWAR.
No,atheism is on the decline,even the most modern Pakistani,s are staunch Muslims at heart,though they may not be as good in practice.

[Gypejeva]

PESHAWAR.:Hardcore deo with J mindset, mixed with tribal tradition.
I would not go to Pakistan by myself. Go with the TJs as they are generally respected for their apolitical stance and reviled by the secularist. This way it is unlikly you are going to send to G,bay.

Also pakistan is country of contradiction and chaos both religious, social and political. There are extreme sides to all of these. The frontier border has relatively remained unscathed because of their war like mindset!! It is somewhat must for one to be familiar with their cultural sentiment and more so in tribal region.

Allahualam

[soryalomop]

Before we moved to pakistan everyone told my dad its too dangerous. But dad said ur going to die where and when Allah has decreed so it doesnt matter, he moved here because of the Islamic environment and alhamdullilah we're all fine and turned out okay.

[highattainlet]

I'd like to join on the query.
Some brothers gave me a picture of great danger in visiting Pakistan if you're a Muslim foreigner, especially if you have "white" skin, european passport and islamic appareances.
They said you may be arrested and sold to other countries as a "militant"/"terrorist". Just because you're a foreigner visiting a "suspect" country in "suspect" times, even if you weren't doing anything ""wrong""/suspect.

Others say this was true only some years ago, when Musharraf (a military) was in power, while now power is more "soft" and there are no such dangers of violations and abuses by military, being more "democratic/governmental" control over the Army

Please note that I'm asking just regarding visiting Pakistan without intention to join any group or have any training or stuff.
Just normal visits of scholars, mashaykh, madaris etc.

Is it true there are still such dangers?

The mindset of agencies remains the same even if Musharraf is gone.Recently when the supreme court ordered them to produce some missing persons,they were killed and their bodies thrown on the streets,a brutal reply to Supreme court of the country not to cross the limits.
Pakistan is a "Security state", not a "welfare state",this fact must be kept in mind when talking about Pakistan.The security agencies have their own mind set,feeling themselves responsible for the protection oof the country,and they consider no sacrifice big enough for this purpose.They consider Taliban,Baluch separatists and others like them a genuine target....and have no mercy on them.Right or wrong,this is what it is.In response The extremist elements respond in kind,and usually the innocent bystanders are the real victims.
In short more dua is needed.

[vSzsgifP]

The safest place for you to visit will indeed be PESHAWAR.
No,atheism is on the decline,even the most modern Pakistani,s are staunch Muslims at heart,though they may not be as good in practice.

MashaAllah

[koebforfrn]

The mindset of agencies remains the same even if Musharraf is gone.Recently when the supreme court ordered them to produce some missing persons,they were killed and their bodies thrown on the streets,a brutal reply to Supreme court of the country not to cross the limits.
Pakistan is a "Security state", not a "welfare state",this fact must be kept in mind when talking about Pakistan.The security agencies have their own mind set,feeling themselves responsible for the protection oof the country,and they consider no sacrifice big enough for this purpose.They consider Taliban,Baluch separatists and others like them a genuine target....and have no mercy on them.Right or wrong,this is what it is.In response The extremist elements respond in kind,and usually the innocent bystanders are the real victims.
In short more dua is needed.

Hadrat for the insight on agencies and the situation.

So do you think the same issues may stand also for a foreigner coming from Europe (and thus, with a "heavy significative" passport, according to the inferiority complex and the lookind up to the "white people" that some people have) and for a completely different reason (i.e. not to join any such groups)?

[chootsonege]

Hadrat for the insight on agencies and the situation.

So do you think the same issues may stand also for a foreigner coming from Europe (and thus, with a "heavy significative" passport, according to the inferiority complex and the lookind up to the "white people" that some people have) and for a completely different reason (i.e. not to join any such groups)?

Firstly I am no Hazrat,I am duajo....just duajo !
Secondly the bigger issue than agencies might be the fear of Taliban,who kidnape foreigners to pressurise their respective govt to withdraw their forces from Afghanistan.....and even sometimes for ransom !
The agencies can be handled if you know someone with good connections in the area,but Taliban are beyond anybody,s influence....as they are not one single group.

[markkisil]

Firstly I am no Hazrat,I am duajo....just duajo !
Secondly the bigger issue than agencies might be the fear of Taliban,who kidnape foreigners to pressurise their respective govt to withdraw their forces from Afghanistan.....and even sometimes for ransom !
The agencies can be handled if you know someone with good connections in the area,but Taliban are beyond anybody,s influence....as they are not one single group.

If that foreigner is a muslim, even then may it (kidnapping) happen?
Do you think that targeting security agencies is a correct practice of the Taliban?

[sauppyshurb]

If that foreigner is a muslim, even then may it (kidnapping) happen?
Do you think that targeting security agencies is a correct practice of the Taliban?

If that Muslim is a "White",yes,there is still a chance.
About the second question,what can i say Brother ? Our hearts bleed to see a Muslim cutting the throat of another Muslim,may they belong to the security agencies or to Taliban.Still,if we consider the Taliban point of view correct, the Armed Forces are a legitimate military target.Similarly if we take the Armed forces,s views as correct,TTP is playing in the hands of America,Israel and India....bent upon destroying Pakistan from within,and therefore must be destroyed.Wallaho Alam.

[Blelidupgerie]

Hadrat for the insight on agencies and the situation.

So do you think the same issues may stand also for a foreigner coming from Europe (and thus, with a "heavy significative" passport, according to the inferiority complex and the lookind up to the "white people" that some people have) and for a completely different reason (i.e. not to join any such groups)?

if you are going to pakistan yes the govt agencies may suspect you and watch you. if you are going for studying only this shouldn't be much of a problem. if someone is going to join the J!had and study then that can be arranged in both cities under pakistan govt (like khi, lahore etc) and cities and areas where fighting occurs such as dar ul uloom haqqania. these people are students+mujahids.

you have nothing to fear from the taliban. the spies have everything to fear from them.

[DianaDrk]

About the second question,what can i say Brother ? Our hearts bleed to see a Muslim cutting the throat of another Muslim,may they belong to the security agencies or to Taliban.Still,if we consider the Taliban point of view correct, the Armed Forces are a legitimate military target.Similarly if we take the Armed forces,s views as correct,TTP is playing in the hands of America,Israel and India....bent upon destroying Pakistan from within,and therefore must be destroyed.Wallaho Alam.

there is a simple answer to this.
http://archive.org/details/jihadepakpdf
in sha Allah there are more similar books and rulings but this is a very strong daleel in favour of the ttp.
army view about ttp actually holds little weight if someone merely studies the timeline of events to see who betrayed who and who attacked first.

[Texdolley]

Firstly I am no Hazrat,I am duajo....just duajo !
Secondly the bigger issue than agencies might be the fear of Taliban,who kidnape foreigners to pressurise their respective govt to withdraw their forces from Afghanistan.....and even sometimes for ransom !
The agencies can be handled if you know someone with good connections in the area,but Taliban are beyond anybody,s influence....as they are not one single group.

If that Muslim is a "White",yes,there is still a chance.

Oh, I see...
No hope for me, then!

[NickGrass]

if you are going to pakistan yes the govt agencies may suspect you and watch you. if you are going for studying only this shouldn't be much of a problem. if someone is going to join the J!had and study then that can be arranged in both cities under pakistan govt (like khi, lahore etc) and cities and areas where fighting occurs such as dar ul uloom haqqania. these people are students+mujahids.

you have nothing to fear from the taliban. the spies have everything to fear from them.

Brother,this kind of misguidance may prove costly to someone.

[wvbwxol]

I don't think you'll have much trouble from the taliban...but if you want to go and study i think Karachi is probably safer for you than tribal areas, besides foreigners find it quite difficult to adjust in tribal areas due to their lifestyle in the west...also you will not find many people who can speak/understand English in those areas whereas in cities like Karachi most people understand English to some extent....studying in a tribal area or places such as masrassah haqqania will put you on a radar

[wrardymar]

if you are going for studying only this shouldn't be much of a problem. if someone is going to join the J!had and study then that can be arranged in both cities under pakistan govt (like khi, lahore etc) and cities and areas where fighting occurs such as dar ul uloom haqqania. these people are students+mujahids.

Bhai, is it possible to elaborate this ^ matter on this forum (avoiding deletion/getting infractions)? If not, then how can I get your mail address?

[Zhgpavye]

Its safe for gori chamris as well because many of my relatives live in UK and US and visit Pakistan frequently.
Many permanently reside in Pakistan now and no issues have been raised uptil now alhamdulillah.

Taliban are not a danger and rather agencies are as brother MH said.


I live near Ibn-e-abbas, its a famous madrassah,and i see mant foreigners studying there.