[I9dydJrX]

Muslims make up approximately 25% of total human population on the planet but their total output in high-quality science production is less than 1% globally ! This is BEYOND shameful for the ummah of our beloved Prophet (SAW). Prophet told us that knowledge is OURS! Prophet commanded us to get knowledge from where-ever we can get it. Qur'an tell us to explore the universe and to discover the secrets of Allah. If all this is there , then why do Muslims lag so behind in Science? I think that it is because of several factors. The first factor is the Muslim societies are badly govern. There is a HUGE problem of governance in Muslim societies.Secondly the other main problem is Muslims' obsession with Islam. Obsession with anything is bad. Muslim clergy also discourages science , in my opinion. Islamic World completely rejects the evolution theory. Muslims and Islamic clergy must understand that religion and Science are suppose to be different and hence should be dealt with differently. Right now , evolution theory is the BEST explanation of why we are here etc. Now thanks to obsession of the Muslims and rigidness of Muslim clergy , Muslims will argue "We are here to serve Allah etc etc" .. Well though this is true but when it comes to science , things become "stagnant" with this approach. In Science , nothing is 'certain' or 'absolute truth' ...One must keep on searching and searching and refining the answers etc ...Muslims should teach their generations that Allah made everything but how HE did it , we don't know. Probably , Allah did it through evolution and this is HIS secret and it is upto us to find it out. Such approach is better , in my view , then to completely reject evolution. In any case , Islam and Science MUST be kept separated from each other and one should not inter-fere with the other. Third reason of Muslim backwardness in science is that Muslim governments don't value education , science , R&D etc. Just look at the spending of United States on R&D and then compare it with Muslim countries. No wonder they are dominating us. Islamic clergy should inspire Muslims and tell them that they are here to EXCEL in EVERY FIELD that ALLAH created...and science is one of the major field through which we can discover the new secrets of absolute mastership of our God.

How what you guys think? Why Muslims lag behind in science? How can we improve ourselves? What is the way forward?

[nebrarlepleme]

Not again!

I m fed up with the materialistic aproach of Muslims, kindly look at my signature on what Hasan Al Basri(ra) said about the issue.


Edit: Why don't Muslims think about why 20% of the world's population are Muslims and their Zakah is not enough to eradicate poverty?. Well the truth is not all of them give Zakah! Why don't I see even a single thread on this topic. Everybody want science this, science that. Science my FOOT!

[Xtatotvk]

Well said amr, Jazakallahu khairan.

[Zoxeeoy]

This is fallacious since a Muslim who practices scientific study would by nature have faith and knowledge of Islam shaping his scientific perspective. As long as rational standards for scientific study are maintained, there is no issue there.

If your are having issues with pseudo scientific protestant ideas of Islamic science, then that is another issue. But to say that Muslims should keep their Islam under the table to study science is just blunder.

[Cibirrigmavog]

Not again!

I m fed up with the materialistic aproach of Muslims, kindly look at my signature on what Hasan Al Basri(ra) said about the issue.

Really bro , really?!?!?! Science is materialistic? :/ Science is the very essence our God tell us to study. How are we suppose to discover the secrets of universe? How are we suppose to find cure to the diseases? How are we suppose to expand our Islam through new media etc if we don't prioritize science? Materialism is having ten cars , laptops (more than u need) etc etc..Science is the BEST knowledge that Allah commands humans to explore (Knowledge regarding the divine comes from Allah/Nabi (SAW) itself , so we don't explore it..just learn it)...A scientist is a great person in Allah's eyes,Inshallah...


Edit: Why don't Muslims think about why 20% of the world's population are Muslims and their Zakah is not enough to eradicate poverty?. Well the truth is not all of them give Zakah! Why don't I see even a single thread on this topic. Everybody want science this, science that. Science my FOOT! Well this is emotional way to look at it. 25% of world population (Muslims) are not eligible to pay Zakkat. MILLIONS are poor , MILLIONS are babies , MILLIONS are girls that doesn't have enough property and hence no zakkat is fard on them. And people who don't pay Zakkat do that due to bad governance..I already mentioned this problem too. Its state's responsibilities to take Zakkat from the people , if state know that rich people didn't pay Zakkat etc......

[LasTins]

Well this is emotional way to look at it. 25% of world population (Muslims) are not eligible to pay Zakkat. MILLIONS are poor , MILLIONS are babies , MILLIONS are girls that doesn't have enough property and hence no zakkat is fard on them. And people who don't pay Zakkat do that due to bad governance..I already mentioned this problem too. Its state's responsibilities to take Zakkat from the people , if state know that rich people didn't pay Zakkat etc......

I knew you would come up with some kinda stupid excuses. Go look at the demography of Wealth in the world population and see how much percent owns the majority of the worlds wealth.

I m outta here you are here only to argue and twist facts,

[ElcinBoris]

This is fallacious since a Muslim who practices scientific study would by nature have faith and knowledge of Islam shaping his scientific perspective. As long as rational standards for scientific study are maintained, there is no issue there.

If your are having issues with pseudo scientific protestant ideas of Islamic science, then that is another issue. But to say that Muslims should keep their Islam under the table to study science is just blunder.

There is no "Islamic" science. Science is always "science" , not Islamic or Jewish etc , irrespective of the faith of the scientists/researchers..

Secondly , person should keep believing in Islam BUT when studying science , he should not think about Islam. Why? Well because science is NOT 'absolute' truth. It keeps on changing. Why would you bring Islam into something that even YOU don't know how it gonna turn out? A person can research "What if we came from Apes" ..in doing so ...he will learn sooooooooo much new stuff about diseases , mutations , blah blah...that is how science works..you go for one thing..even if you fail..you learn new things...just like Muslim Alchemists learned ALOT of new stuff about chemistry ,when they were trying to convert metals into gold. They failed but they did discover new secrets of chemistry....Now suppose if a person brings Islam into it...he won't even think that we came from Apes. He would say "Astagfirullah , how can I think like that? thats kufr. Allah made it all" etc..now this approach will stop its ingenuity ... You see the point I'm trying to make? This obsession with Islam is causing hindrance in scientific growth in the Muslim societies...

PLUS : Posters , kindly post on topic too... How can we improve the situation of science in the Muslim world ...

[RafaelYV]

I knew you would come up with some kinda stupid excuses. Go look at the demography of Wealth in the world population and see how much percent owns the majority of the worlds wealth.

I m outta here you are here only to argue and twist facts,

Yeah so what? Unequal distribution of wealth is a problem. Who is denying it? But most of the wealth is in Westerner's hand and they don't pay Zakkat...How can we make Muslims pay their due Zakkat? By good governance , right? This is what I'm pointed out in my first post..Muslims have a problem of bad governance...what excuses I am making? huh

[FrassyLap]

There is no "Islamic" science. Science is always "science" , not Islamic or Jewish etc , irrespective of the faith of the scientists/researchers..

Secondly , person should keep believing in Islam BUT when studying science , he should not think about Islam. Why? Well because science is NOT 'absolute' truth. It keeps on changing. Why would you bring Islam into something that even YOU don't know how it gonna turn out? A person can research "What if we came from Apes" ..in doing so ...he will learn sooooooooo much new stuff about diseases , mutations , blah blah...that is how science works..you go for one thing..even if you fail..you learn new things...just like Muslim Alchemists learned ALOT of new stuff about chemistry ,when they were trying to convert metals into gold. They failed but they did discover new secrets of chemistry....Now suppose if a person brings Islam into it...he won't even think that we came from Apes. He would say "Astagfirullah , how can I think like that? thats kufr. Allah made it all" etc..now this approach will stop its ingenuity ... You see the point I'm trying to make? This obsession with Islam is causing hindrance in scientific growth in the Muslim societies...

PLUS : Posters , kindly post on topic too... How can we improve the situation of science in the Muslim world ...

But there's false science and true science. There's philosophy of science and mere factoid science. And so forth. All of these are areas where falsehood can be inserted based on someone ideological inclinations. Just because Richard Dawkins has some science degree doesn't meaning everything he utters is "science" and cannot be categorised as atheist science.

Secondly its impossible to somehow seperate someone's Islam. That's close to kufr. Maybe what you intend is that the knowledge obtained through a certain scientific method should not be mixed or over shadowed or diluted by Islam. That is obvious. But it does not mean that a Muslim scientist cannot use the knowledge obtained from Islamic sources to shape his philosophical conclusions or inspire his study in a certain direction or have islamic ethical considerations mentioned to form a greater perspective that is helpful for his Islamic ccommunity.

"What if we came apes" has nothing to do with any research progress of our era. That's just complete rubbish propoganda. Its infact hurting science based on dogmatic rigidity to stick to a speculative "what if". "What if" should remain as "what if" and fact as fact and philosophy as philosophy and rational as rational. Scientists should be always open to ideas rather than closed view of Darwinism.

[esconsise]

Haven't there been enough threads on this already? Why did you feel the need to open a new one? You're not saying anything that hasn't already been said.

Muslim clergy also discourages science , in my opinion 1. Muslims don't have clergy (unless you are talking about shiite "Muslims")
2. Your unsubstantiated opinion...so what?

I've already said in previous threads the main things preventing scientific progress in any society are political instability, poor access to education and other resources, and no funding...things you yourself have mentioned. What now? Clearly the solution is primarily military, economic and political. Are you prepared to fight for political change?

[DoctorBretonDen]

اَلسَّلَامُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَا تُهُ

I think that firstly and most importantly Muslims should focus on following all the basic rulings of Islaam, as well as attempting to inculcate these in others. We have to prioritise our energy. If a businessman finds that his phone selling business is failing, will he apply himself and his resources to expanding his business to selling vacuum cleaners? Most likely he will first attempt to straighten his phone business, and when that is stable he can think about expansion.

Similarly, when the essentials of Islaam are being disregarded by many, many of the Mulims - Muslims are not abstaining from haraam (they drink alcohol, listen to music, commit zina, commit embezzlement, deceit, fraud, lies, etc.) and not fulfilling the faraa'idh (salaah, zakaah, etc.) - then how can we concentrate on developing the scientific research and advancements produced by the Muslims?

Moreover, if Muslims strive to adhere to the sunnah of the prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم) it is likely that other aspects such as science will follow, while if Muslims strive to advance in science I cannot see this having much effect on bringing the sunnah into their lives.

And verily Allah knows best.

[clubcughSheet]

Assertion 1: Science is bad/useless and Muslims should keep away from it.

Wrong.

Assertion 2: Muslims are backward and lack science and scientific attitude.

Wrong.

[pKgGpUlF]

Assertion 1: Science is bad/useless and Muslims should keep away from it.

Wrong.

Assertion 2: Muslims are backward and lack science and scientific attitude.

Wrong.

How is second assertion wrong? How many highly-quality research papers are coming out of the Muslim world?

[ropinirole]

what is your profession auzer,

[AmfitNom]

How is second assertion wrong? How many highly-quality research papers are coming out of the Muslim world?

please post a high quality research paper on this thread so we know what your standards are.

[Idonnaink]

You are an ignorant individual. You frame your view on the back of secularist thinking. Your entire argument is nothing more than rant full of supposition and a sign of ignorance.
Ignorance is a result of seeing things in isolation. The fact that you know very little about religious science speaks the volume. Your grasp of history and legacy is verging on stupidity. No offense! Your pathetic attampt to blame scholars is typical of people with no understanding!
i doubt you are an educationalist or even know how the education systems actually work!! Have you even attended a seminar on different trends of educaiton.
People with nothing to offer generally vents fraustration by attacking the scholars.
I consider this is the lowest form of argument.
I will request that you stick to the topic and not blame scholars as you know very little about academic circle.

Abdul
He is likly to be science student and has little or no contact with scholars of substance.

You are a typical ignorant emotional Muslim. I am not blaming anything...It is just my OPINION that , other than governance issues and Muslims' obsession with Islam , Muslim clergy's strict approach to Islam is another hurdle in scientific advance of the Muslims. Well I can be right ..I can be wrong...that is why I said to "discuss" this topic. But alas , your emotions shut your brain and hence you just pick up one thing out of my whole post ---while ignoring the REAL purpose of this thread---and stat your bashing.

You never even touched the topic because , offcourse , your emotions are more important for you. Why Muslim world lags behind in Science? What can be done to improve scientific growth in the Islamic world? When we have Muslims saying "Science is materialism" blah blah , then may Allah help this backward , weak , poor , and illiterate "Ummah" ....who doesn't even want to improve and want to keep living like stinky slaves of other civilizations. Chinese are way better than this "Ummah" because atleast , they have 'honor' and they strive to be self-independent.... But Muslims like many posters here will keep depended on West for the health of their children.

Just for a though though : People brag alot about 'expansion' of Islam in the last century. Ever wondered how it happened? Muslims were able to manage BIG populations due to Western medicine and Western agriculture techniques! If there was no Western medicine , Muslim population would have been less than 1 billion or so ....

[expomeHattePe]

please post a high quality research paper on this thread so we know what your standards are.

I don't have my standards but standards are international....


Do you know about Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy's papers on particle physics? The same Hoodbhoy who is one of very few rational voices left in my pathetic homeland , Pakistan. (Though , I don't agree with Hoodbhoy on many issues and I STRICTLY oppose some of Dr Hoodbhoy's views..but this doesn't stop me to accept him as a rational voice , which he is. Probably he will have to leave that 'land of pure' too ..just like one of the best religious mind of that region , Javed Ahmad Ghamidi , had to do) ..

[Lt_Apple]

Just for a though though : People brag alot about 'expansion' of Islam in the last century. Ever wondered how it happened? Muslims were able to manage BIG populations due to Western medicine and Western agriculture techniques! If there was no Western medicine , Muslim population would have been less than 1 billion or so ....

Actually, it's on the contrary. For example, check the plantation and farming technology used in the Muslim countries. You'll find that majority of them still use old technology.

As for Western medicine, if by that you mean the techniques used by doctors as opposed to drugs, then it's not a monopolized by anyone. There are specific research (specific example that I know, throat cancer) where universities in Muslim nations produced top notch research papers on that.

On the other hand, if you mean by drugs, then you should also know the controversies surrounding the pharmaceutical companies and developing nations (like Brazil) in manufacturing generic drugs.

Allahu'alam.

[maclaudser]

I don't have my standards but standards are international....


Do you know about Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy's papers on particle physics? The same Hoodbhoy who is one of very few rational voices left in my pathetic homeland , Pakistan. (Though , I don't agree with Hoodbhoy on many issues and I STRICTLY oppose some of Dr Hoodbhoy's views..but this doesn't stop me to accept him as a rational voice , which he is. Probably he will have to leave that 'land of pure' too ..just like one of the best religious mind of that region , Javed Ahmad Ghamidi , had to do) ..

ofcourse they are international. thats not what i am discussing.

i wish to see which papers you have studied. please post them here.

[no02rSx2]

I rather be called ignorant then join the ranks of you who tries to link two seperate topics and then uses it to make a conclusion devoid of of history and the impact of economic.
First what do you know about Islamic sciences and Islamic scholarship in relegion. You have nothing to stand on as you try to linkislamic scholarship to the current dire situation of the muslims today. The tow are different topics and has little!!
Do you even understand of concept of socio-economic and political situation impacting on society.
In your so called post, you seem to blame everything on scholars. This is what we dissagreed with and not the topic!!

What the hell are you going on about western agriclutlural technique. Most of the agriculturarl technique were in existance. The so called artifical fertilezer are the sole reason whey many of the farmer became depenedant on multinational. Farmers were forced to take loan. Once they realised the damage done, the natural yield is lost! So much for such underhanded agricultural technique. Advancement of medicine!! Perhaps carrying out experiment on african resulting in suffering is an achievment. Then again the theory of darwinsim at play by killing and maiming the poor!
What expansion of Islam are you talking about? I never remember bragging about this!!
You seem to not even know the word science! Relegious sciences deals with more specifically releigous field. I don't understnad you lump the world of all sciences into one. Your statment is enough for me to understand that you have no idea what you are talking about!