[PZXjoe]

Assalamu alaykum,

I have recently discovered Sheikh Shabir Ally, his debates are fantastic. I have learnt a lot from his talks, but just wondering about his academic background.
Is he alright in terms of fiqh and exegesis?

Thanks.

[Phouepou]

Assalamu alaykum,

I have recently discovered Sheikh Shabir Ally, his debates are fantastic. I have learnt a lot from his talks, but just wondering about his academic background.
Is he alright in terms of fiqh and exegesis?

Thanks.

He is THE BEST Islamic Apologist around , Mashallah.

Muslim world needs 1000s of more Shabbir Allys ... Regarding his background , he is a great scholar but he is known for his debates/inter-religious dialogue , not so much for the fiqh...

[Forex Trading Software]

What makes him different from Ahmed Deedat, Dr Zakir Naik and Dr Jamal Badawi?

[lE3l6Lgn]

His work against Christians is generally good and much better than Badawi or Naik. He has clearly studied higher criticism/textual criticism and Biblical exegesis at a deeper level than the other two. However, for fiqh and tafsir, he is awful. For example, he denied offensive jihad and explained away tafaasir on the subject from the likes of Imam Al Qurtubi etc and said they were influenced by politics! He also has denied the authenticity of hadith from the likes of Bukhari purely on the basis that he feels it contradicts the Quran (and not on the basis of the actual chain of narrators). Don't listen to him for knowledge on Islam and since learning about the Bible in general is pointless... I don't bother with him at all

[Flefebleaft]

Ahmed for the rejoinder.

I too had feeling of slight inconvenience in some of his statements.
I suppose we should make a list of those points in which he has resorted to expression of personal opinion.
Being an Ahmed Deedat class debater, after all he is inspired by lade Ahmed Deedat, he is an asset for the Ummah.
I loved it when William Craig was reduced to spin in circles under his constant onslaught.

Christianity is a huge presence in the world today and we do not Bible scholars amongst us to communicate the message of Islam to them. In this regard my inclination is towards brother Auzer's sentiments that we need thousands of Shabir Ally's.

My suggestion is that, after Ramadan, we should watch his debates and collect points made by him for our ready reference. Basically I personally feel that our resident expertize at SF in regards to Christianity is not very strong. We got to acquire some muscles in that segment.

I also feel that Shabir has already augmented Ahmed Deedat in many ways, even more than Zakir Naik.

Since I have not watched much of Jamal Badawi there is precious little I can say about that angle.

[usacomm]

I've only watched one full debate of his and I already like him better than Naik and Ahmed Deedat. He's a genius, in short.

[Gerribase]

My suggestion is that, after Ramadan, we should watch his debates and collect points made by him for our ready reference. Basically I personally feel that our resident expertize at SF in regards to Christianity is not very strong. We got to acquire some muscles in that segment.

Bro, I watch his videos just for fun, and if I happen to pick up some knowledge on the way then thats good too. As for learning about Christianity to disprove it, well ... a child can do that (not to belittle the work of Shabir Ally of course).

[extessarere]

Bro, I watch his videos just for fun, and if I happen to pick up some knowledge on the way then thats good too. As for learning about Christianity to disprove it, well ... a child can do that (not to belittle the work of Shabir Ally of course).

You do have a point there akhi. God can be one only and even a child will understand that.
The trouble is that when you talk to a grown up Christian he will accept none of your arguments in favour of Tauheed.
There lies the crux.
Islam has to be communicated to Christians and they do have entrenched thoughts.
Ahmed Deedat et all started a trend and thanks to them we Muslims are not the inferior community in theological matters - remember Orientalism is all about proving inferiority of Islam at theological level (of course at cultural level also).

He is indeed better than Zakir Naik. As far as Ahmed Deedat is concerned then we should not forget that he is the father of the genre. (Of course real father would be Maulana Rehamtullah Kairanwi).

[GenrieAB]

You do have a point there akhi. God can be one only and even a child will understand that.
The trouble is that when you talk to a grown up Christian he will accept none of your arguments in favour of Tauheed.
There lies the crux.
Islam has to be communicated to Christians and they do have entrenched thoughts.

we should start by showing them this video

He is indeed better than Zakir Naik. As far as Ahmed Deedat is concerned then we should not forget that he is the father of the genre. (Of course real father would be Maulana Rehamtullah Kairanwi).

Its probably because I haven't watched Ahmed deedat videos much that I like Shabir better. As for Maulana Rehamtullah Kairanwi, never heard of him. I'll look him up now inshaAllah.

[ticskebasse]

As for Maulana Rehamtullah Kairanwi, never heard of him. I'll look him up now inshaAllah.

The only thing I could find with a Google search was his apparently famous book titled "Izhar-ul-Haq" (The Truth Revealed)

Have you read it brother Maripat?

[mobiphones]

The only thing I could find with a Google search was his apparently famous book titled "Izhar-ul-Haq" (The Truth Revealed)

Have you read it brother Maripat?

Trying to lay my hands on it for some time.
The trouble is that after that people will say, "Oh Maripat is merely a copy cat of Zakir Naik"!

Kairana is a town in the fertile (religiously as well as agriculturally) land having Deoband in its fold.

Explore the following SF links for the time being and we may discuss more later, IA.

[Plokiikmol]

we should start by showing them this video

My favourite is this one.

[baritkello]

The only thing I could find with a Google search was his apparently famous book titled "Izhar-ul-Haq" (The Truth Revealed)

Have you read it brother Maripat?

Yup. This forms the basis of modern Islamic Apologetics towards Christianity...

In today's age , Islamic Apologetics have become a must part of Islam. Imams of Masjids should also have some knowledge of apologetics and apologetical techniques...Specially in the West.

[Heliosprime]

He is THE BEST Islamic Apologist around , Mashallah.

Muslim world needs 1000s of more Shabbir Allys ... Regarding his background , he is a great scholar but he is known for his debates/inter-religious dialogue , not so much for the fiqh...

interesting. how do you define an 'apologist'?

[gimffnfabaykal]

interesting. how do you define an 'apologist'?

A person that effectively defends his faith , and prove the faith of other person wrong thereof , by giving sound rational arguments derived from reason , philosophy , and logic...

I guess this would be it...

What are your views regarding Imam Shabbir Ally?

[wbeachcomber]

Yup. This forms the basis of modern Islamic Apologetics towards Christianity...

In today's age , Islamic Apologetics have become a must part of Islam. Imams of Masjids should also have some knowledge of apologetics and apologetical techniques...Specially in the West.

Apologetic Islam has no place in Islam, neither in previous times nor in today's era.

Allah Most High has made guidance clear and plain. If somebody fails to understand it or is not willing to accept it, there is no compulsion upon him to accept the faith. But in no shape or form is there a need to distort the core teachings of Islam and aspects of the Sunna for the sake of appeasing people who cannot stomach the truth. Any such call is clearly against the spirit of Islam and stems from ignorance of the Sira, in particular the Makkan period of the Prophet's صلى الله عليه وسلم life.

[drycleden]

Shabbir Ally says that evolution and creation are compatible and that they are in essence the same thing. Adam (alayhis salam), according to Shabbir Ally, was part of the evolution process who was singled out as now being responsible for action. Hence, he was the first man in that sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPZX_dNeBTM

Music is permissible according to him, because there is "nothing specific in the Qur'an", an argument he stumbles in using a number of times.

He does not accept capital punishment for apostates to be part of Islam, saying that "I'm not convince in fact that this should be the Islamic rule".

There are other examples of his deviating on accepted issues, but this is what I have come across. Perhaps others can add their findings.

[55TRATTERENRY]

Perhaps the most appalling of his statements is the following, where he is directly or indirectly - however you wish to perceive it - questioning the Prophet's statement regarding drawing pictures. He goes on to quote a rule he subscribes to that "matters of such great importance should not rest upon the prohibition mentioned in hadith".

http://www.youtube.com/user/quranspe...e=results_main

[Grewlybreekly]

Apologetic Islam has no place in Islam, neither in previous times nor in today's era.

Allah Most High has made guidance clear and plain. If somebody fails to understand it or is not willing to accept it, there is no compulsion upon him to accept the faith. But in no shape or form is there a need to distort the core teachings of Islam and aspects of the Sunna for the sake of appeasing people who cannot stomach the truth. Any such call is clearly against the spirit of Islam and stems from ignorance of the Sira, in particular the Makkan period of the Prophet's صلى الله عليه وسلم life.

i do not think this is what he means by being an apologist. this is why i asked.

[u2ZQGC6b]

A person that effectively defends his faith , and prove the faith of other person wrong thereof , by giving sound rational arguments derived from reason , philosophy , and logic...

I guess this would be it...

What are your views regarding Imam Shabbir Ally?

i briefly saw his debate with craig. i liked it but i somehow am not attracted to refuting christians. i accept other people may feel otherwise and that is fine.
how i define an apologist is how mufti jav has described one in post 16. this definition takes a rather literal meaning of the word. your definition would mean the person should be called a 'debater' or 'refuter'. but that is the more common use of the word.
Allahualam.