[markkisil]

Is it true that prior to the Saudi/Salafi takeover of the Haramain in Arabia, the Jama salah for each mathab in the Haram was led by their own seperate imam, so for each prayer time you have four seperate (Shafi, Hanbali, Hanafi, Maliki) Jama prayer?

[P9CCd35R]

Is it true that prior to the Saudi/Salafi takeover of the Haramain in Arabia, the Jama salah for each mathab in the Haram was led by their own seperate imam, so for each prayer time you have four seperate (Shafi, Hanbali, Hanafi, Maliki) Jama prayer?

Yeah it is true. There used to be four musalahs in the Harmain and four different Imams of the four madhabs used to lead congregation prayers there. The four musalahs were demolished by the Saudis/Salafis.

[Yinekol]

Assalamu alaykum

There were four musallah in haram. But not four separate jamaath at the same time. But sequentially 5 salah were led by four imams in their musallah.

eg. fajr maliki, zuhar shafaee, asar hanbali, maghrib hanafee, eisha maliki, next day fajr shafaee.

The reason was the salafees demolishing the four musallahs was that, they didn't had their representation. The fifth musallah was non-existing, so they demolished the four musallahs.

[dserbokim]

Assalamu alaykum

There were four musallah in haram. But not four separate jamaath at the same time. But sequentially 5 salah were led by four imams in their musallah.

eg. fajr maliki, zuhar shafaee, asar hanbali, maghrib hanafee, eisha maliki, next day fajr shafaee.

The reason was the salafees demolishing the four musallahs was that, they didn't had their representation. The fifth musallah was non-existing, so they demolished the four musallahs.

i didnt know that. i thought the four prayed separately in different parts of haram.
in islamabad's islamic university there is a similar (but not identical) routine as far as i can tell. one week jumah khutba by barelvi imam, then deobandi, then ahl e hadith. and daily prayers rotated between them. Allahualam.
good example of tolerance.

[gydrorway]

Assalamu alaykum

There were four musallah in haram. But not four separate jamaath at the same time. But sequentially 5 salah were led by four imams in their musallah.

eg. fajr maliki, zuhar shafaee, asar hanbali, maghrib hanafee, eisha maliki, next day fajr shafaee.

The reason was the salafees demolishing the four musallahs was that, they didn't had their representation. The fifth musallah was non-existing, so they demolished the four musallahs.

Do you have a source for any of these claims?

[seatlyled]

Assalamu alaykum

There were four musallah in haram. But not four separate jamaath at the same time. But sequentially 5 salah were led by four imams in their musallah.

eg. fajr maliki, zuhar shafaee, asar hanbali, maghrib hanafee, eisha maliki, next day fajr shafaee.

The reason was the salafees demolishing the four musallahs was that, they didn't had their representation. The fifth musallah was non-existing, so they demolished the four musallahs.

Walaikum as sallam

What was the point in establishing four musalahs then? One Musalah is enough for the job you have mentioned. The inter-madhab rivalry was at peak then and each of the four Imams used to lead prayers according to their madhabs in isolation.

[xgnuwdd]

Do you have a source for any of these claims?

well if its the truth then what a great thing.

[Hokimjers]

I thought the claim that there were four different musallah's was fabricated? Can someone provide a source for it?

[2puO4Rhf]

I thought the claim that there were four different musallah's was fabricated? Can someone provide a source for it?

Walaikum as sallam wr wb,

Kindly read "Shaykh Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab aur Hindustan kay Ulama e Haq" by Maulana Manzoor Naumani ra. He mentions the four Musalahs and four jamaats on page 89. You can download the book from here http://www.4shared.com/document/g6St...ur_Hindus.html

[UKkoXJvF]

Walaikum as sallam

What was the point in establishing four musalahs then? One Musalah is enough for the job you have mentioned. The inter-madhab rivalry was at peak then and each of the four Imams used to lead prayers according to their madhabs in isolation.

Doctor sahib.

Four musallah, imam by turn, imam on his own musallah.

And it was not four jamaath simultaneously in isolation. Even now imams lead the prayers by turn in haram. And depending on conditions the imam leads in mutaaf from different places.

Since Haram was for every one and each madhab had their equal share, who ever was in control of haram during that time offered equal opportunity to the four madhabs. So that is a positive approach.

[soryalomop]

Since when has islam been a democracy. It doesnt matter if ahnaf are 50% or if all madhahib had "equal rights".

The rophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam would cry if he saw how divided the ummah is. we dont need 4 jama'aats. We can have one imaam appointed by the governor and people can pray however they like behind him. If the sahaba prayed differently following different opinions yet all prayed behind one imaam then why cant we.too much division

[VowJoyday]

4 imaams took turns leading one jamaa, so it was not divisive.

Since when has islam been a democracy. It doesnt matter if ahnaf are 50% or if all madhahib had "equal rights".

The rophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam would cry if he saw how divided the ummah is. we dont need 4 jama'aats. We can have one imaam appointed by the governor and people can pray however they like behind him. If the sahaba prayed differently following different opinions yet all prayed behind one imaam then why cant we.too much division

[markoiutrfffdsa]

We ask why this discrimination against ahnaf.

intolerance.

[PWRichard]

Assalamu alaykum

Is it Islam to give zero representation for ahnaf in haramain. Ahnaf are not complaining, they do pray behind the hanbali imams. When discussion on four musallah was started, we ask, as a solution was it correct to totally remove representation for the other 3 madhabs.

During Haj, there are tents outside minaa encroached into Muzdalifah for uqoof (stay).

These hajees have to walk upto 3 kilo meters for stoning the jamaarath (rammee).

After a night stay in Muzdalifah, after fajr they have to move two their tents in minaa. But these poor hajees' tents are already in muzdalifah. These creates total confusions.


Let me ask the KSA authorities, among these poor hajees who stay in muzdalifah, 80 percent are ahnaf? why?


We ask why this discrimination against ahnaf.

Its not because they ahnaaf, its because they cant afford the expensive hajj. there are two south african camps at Mina. one is just a short walk from the masjid & the other where you mentioned. the one near the masjid you would find most of the ahnaaf over there because in south africa the indians go the bucks. & then the camp at musdalifah are mostly shafis because we not indian & dont have the money. so it has nothing to do with madhab, dont turn everything into a madhab issue.
by the way one of the reasons why there are 50% hanafis in the world is because to khalifas (great world powers) were hanafi & made the hanafi madhab the system of rule. if Im not mistaken it was the Abasites & the ottamans. both of which had courts rule according to the hanafi madhab even in lands like palistine & egypt that were full of shafis & north africa that was full of malikis. so why was it ok then for the whole muslim world to be rulled by a hanafi system. i tell you why, its important to have unity. the madhab of Makkah is mostly maaliki so then let the maaliki lead salah-done. if for some reason this changes & a hambali is elected Imaam then so be it.

[Escamsrasiush]

Is it true that prior to the Saudi/Salafi takeover of the Haramain in Arabia, the Jama salah for each mathab in the Haram was led by their own seperate imam, so for each prayer time you have four seperate (Shafi, Hanbali, Hanafi, Maliki) Jama prayer?

it was an innovation. it is better now (to pray together).

[VastDrura]

it was an innovation. it is better now (to pray together).

is this how you speak about a practice carried out by the scholars of that era? the scholarship of arabia from all four schools consented to a common practice and you feel you can just label it as 'innovation'? have some respect.
things werent what the salafis portrayed them to be. their idea of 'unity' is everyone should be like us.

[satthackacibe]

Assalamu alaykum

QUOTE=SASLAMS;797605]
its because they cant afford the expensive hajj. because we not indian & dont have the money The muallim fees for arrangements during the five days is 1400 saudi riyals. If there is a higher category for better accomodation we are ready to pay twice or even thrice the fee.

There are many Indians who live in expensive hotels across the boundary of haram paying thousands of riyals for accommodation. Haj is for one who can afford.

By the way! The real reason for ahnaf being stationed in muzdalifah is, for ahnaf, the stay in mina is "sunnah" and in other madhabs and for the salaafees it is obligatory.

May be we can close this discussion now.

[nasdfrdg]

Maybe we should have husnal dhann of the people running hajj and assume they try tehir best to accomdate the verying schools of thought. Im sure the saudis dont say "its my way or the highway". Dont they pray 20 rak'ah taraweeh for example?

Also isnt attacking rulers and spreading their faults haraam? Did any scholar approve of criticising saudi?

[HottBrorb]

Maybe we should have husnal dhann of the people running hajj and assume they try tehir best to accomdate the verying schools of thought. Im sure the saudis dont say "its my way or the highway". Dont they pray 20 rak'ah taraweeh for example?

Also isnt attacking rulers and spreading their faults haraam? Did any scholar approve of criticising saudi?

Since rebellion against the rulers can be halal (in some cases) and waajib (in some cases) how can criticising them be haraam? Unless it is backbiting?

[Zpxbawtz]

Maybe we should have husnal dhann of the people running hajj and assume they try tehir best to accomdate the verying schools of thought. Im sure the saudis dont say "its my way or the highway". Dont they pray 20 rak'ah taraweeh for example?

Also isnt attacking rulers and spreading their faults haraam? Did any scholar approve of criticising saudi?

Assalamu alaykum.

We salute the Saudi Wizarah for Haj for their arrangements during haj. But the discussion here is the false salafee propaganda regarding the four musallah. Our argument is that, you have removed the four musallah, (Dr Atiq sahib also agreed that four imams on turn leading the prayers is justified but not from four different musallah), but why have they retained only the hanbli Imams (and now salafee imams are added). Why is this discrimination against ahnaf and other 2 madhabs.

Secondly we are not demanding our share. We are happy praying behind the present Imams. We are not complaining against the saudi authorities. Our arguments are aimed at salafee brothers who are misleading the youth.