[Sawyer]

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Most Christians do not prostrate on the ground like Jesus did. So where did their form of prayer come from? For example putting the palms of the hands together vertically and pointing the fingers upwards - is Jesus reported to have ever done that?

[laperuzdfhami]

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Most Christians do not prostrate on the ground like Jesus did. So where did their form of prayer come from? For example putting the palms of the hands together vertically and pointing the fingers upwards - is Jesus reported to have ever done that?

I dont consider them as followers as Isa(A.S).

[Jeffery]

You seem obsessed with Christians and with the Bible.

Most Christians do not prostrate on the ground like Jesus did.

Also with incorrect over-generalizations.

[DJElizardo]

I don't know.

As a personal opinion, I think it is quite useless to discuss how Christianity got their form of prayers or rituals, specially in Ramadan. One must aim to maximize one's Ibadaat (prayers) and good deeds in the blessed month of Ramadan. May Allah guide, help and bless us all.

Apologies if it sounded offending, I only meant good.

[glazgoR@]

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Most Christians do not prostrate on the ground like Jesus did. So where did their form of prayer come from? For example putting the palms of the hands together vertically and pointing the fingers upwards - is Jesus reported to have ever done that?

I don't want to be the guy who says "Everything the Catholic Church does is Pagan" But the hand things was adopted from pagans. They used to just out their hands in a uni-fist and pray.

[Peterli]

You seem obsessed with Christians and with the Bible.



Also with incorrect over-generalizations.

You seem obsessed with Muslims and with the Qur'an ;-)

Instead of making just a statement, elaborate on the incorrect over-generalizations otherwise don't make the statement.

Oh and I said "Most Christians do not..." not "All Christians do not...".

[ApporpSothe]

al-Salaamu 'Ala Man Ittaba'a al-Huda,

I would say that generally Christians do not have a prayer which involves prostrating, make note of "General" (because i haven't seen every single Christian on this planet nor every single denomination). What I would also like to say it that Allah (Glory Be To Him) calls Christians closest to the Believers (al-Qur'an 5:82) and He does make reference of those people of the Scriptures - in awe of their Lord - fall in prostration (al-Qur'an 17:107) when the signs of their Lord are rehearsed. Glory be To Allah, those who choose the religion of Allah from amongst the People of the Scriptures are rewarded twice as mentioned by our Beloved Muhhammad (Sahih Muslim 219), so in this aspect they will regarded as superior to the born Muslims.

We encourage Christians to read and ponder over the signs of Allah and be amongst the believers for what is awaiting them is manifolds (of reward from their Lord).

Wallahu A'lam

[ZAtlLVos]

You seem obsessed with Christians and with the Bible.



Also with incorrect over-generalizations.

that was certainly not an incorrect over-generalization.

It was simply a very obvious fact.

However, this type of prostration (or something similar to it) did still exist in Western Europe the Middle-Ages.

[QuidQuoPro]

I might be mistaken, but I think a few orthodox Christian sects prostrate in their prayer, but then they might not be recognized as Christians from Catholic point of view as they don't believe in trinity. The pattern and arrangement of which goes first might be different, but all the forms of Islamic prayers (bowing, prostrating) are in there.

Actually, even Judaism prostrate in their prayers, but they have a different form of prayers for when they are in the public, or when they're in private.

Allah Knows Best.

[Worseacar]

Basically, only the Catholics do the hands together type of prayer.

Protestants and Evangelicals are more prone to worship God with arm's raised up in the air.

[Htb48JBf]

I might be mistaken, but I think a few orthodox Christian sects prostrate in their prayer, but then they might not be recognized as Christians from Catholic point of view as they don't believe in trinity.

Incorrect.

Orthodox Christians do believe in the Trinity.

[isogeople]

Incorrect.

Orthodox Christians do believe in the Trinity.

I guess some of them don't. Here's some old documentary that commented on the nature of Jesus according to the Coptics;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT8_f...eature=related

Coptic prostration in prayer;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRLFe...eature=related

Jews prostration in prayer,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3YFP5r5x-w

and by the same author, discussing about prostrating in their prayers (allowed or not allowed, done by the Jews or goyim and others);
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqMg_-C3hzI

I find that the comment made by the author in the comment section of the last video as interesting;

"The Jewish law is that the individual bow and prostrate. If he does not prostrate, the prayer is still valid -- meaning: he does not need to repeat the prayer; HOWEVER the prayer was not expressed properly - this means that prostrating is not just optional. Intentionally not bowing is a transgression."

Allah Knows Best.

[Teligacio]

that was certainly not an incorrect over-generalization.

It was simply a very obvious fact.

To say that most do not prostrate themselves in prayer is not an obvious fact. Are you speaking from experience or research data? If you have research data, then I would be interested in seeing the study.

[v74ClzKY]

You seem obsessed with Muslims and with the Qur'an ;-)

Instead of making just a statement, elaborate on the incorrect over-generalizations otherwise don't make the statement.

Oh and I said "Most Christians do not..." not "All Christians do not...".

I am quite aware that you said "most" and not "all."

I decided to stop elaborating on your threads some time ago. If someone truly has a desire to learn or to engage in the exchange of information, then I am more than willing to discuss things.

Should I not be obsessed with "Muslims and the Qur'an"?

[AmericaAirline 111]

There is a theological difference between Orthodox Christians and Coptic Christians.

Just saying..........

[Goodwin]

I am quite aware that you said "most" and not "all."

I decided to stop elaborating on your threads some time ago. If someone truly has a desire to learn or to engage in the exchange of information, then I am more than willing to discuss things.

Should I not be obsessed with "Muslims and the Qur'an"?

I do have a desire to learn - it's you who is not willing to discuss. The whole SF is still waiting for your reply to "the prophet" in John 1:19-25.

Should I not be obsessed with "Christians and the Bible"?

[mikeyyuiok]

There is a theological difference between Orthodox Christians and Coptic Christians.

Just saying..........

ah, ok. Didn't know that. Well, we all know that there are many sects in Christianity with all sorts of theology principles which are often at odds with one another.

[off topic]
Anyway, not to steal the thread, just a small extra info that I think is interesting (minus the political comment about Turkish government - of which I have no knowledge about to either accept or reject the allegations);

The Holy Prophet Muhammad 's Letter to the Monks of St. Catherine in Mt. Sinai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0SsR...eature=related
[/off topic]

[NodePark]

I do have a desire to learn - it's you who is not willing to discuss. The whole SF is still waiting for your reply to "the prophet" in John 1:19-25.

Should I not be obsessed with "Christians and the Bible"?

I seriously doubt that all of SF is waiting for my reply in that thread. Or was that another over-generalization? Let's call it a hyperbole, shake hands, and split the difference.

If you have a strong desire to discuss Christianity, there are forums for that. Someone who genuinely expresses a desire to learn is not likely to be banned from one. Some Islamic forums even have a place dedicated for interfaith discussions. This one does not; which is why I try my best not to post things of that nature, out of respect for the forum. There are other Islamic forums where I have engaged in quite lengthy interfaith discussions.

Should you not be obsessed? By all means, whatever floats your boat. Perhaps as you continue to study the Bible and Christianity, with a sincere desire to learn, you will find the answers to the questions that you seek.

I doubt your desire to learn. Someone with a desire to learn does not approach the questions with a biased answer already in mind.

If you find the true answers to the questions that you seek, and you still disagree, then that is different. For example, I completely 100% understand the notion and conceptualization of a "trinity," but it is a doctrine that I reject and disagree with. My rejection of the "trinity" does not stem from a lack of understanding, nor from ignorance. It was through much research that I reached the conclusion that I hold.

[Wvq9InTM]

Should I not be obsessed with "Christians and the Bible"?

Nope you shouldn't. Rasoolullah got angry with Umar (ra) when he brought Torah in front of him to learn it.
All previous scriptures were abrogated with the coming of Rasoolullah and the revelation of the Quran.
Spend time learning the Quran rather than wasting time with the Bible.


Al-Bazzaar on the authority of Jaabir(ra). He said, “‘Umar copied part of the Torah in Arabic, brought it to the Prophet , and began to read it to him. As he read, the Prophet’s face changed color. One of the men of the Ansaar said, "Woe to you Ibn Al-Khattaab! Can you not see the face of the Messenger of Allaah?’ Thereupon, the Prophet , said, ‘Do not ask the People of the Book about anything for they will not guide you when they have gone astray. (If you listen to them) You will either disbelieve in what is right or believe in what is false. By Allaah, if Moses had been alive today, he would have been obliged to follow me.’”

[fluistulkn]

Nope you shouldn't. Rasoolullah got angry with Umar (ra) when he brought Torah in front of him to learn it.
All previous scriptures were abrogated with the coming of Rasoolullah and the revelation of the Quran.
Spend time learning the Quran rather than wasting time with the Bible.


Al-Bazzaar on the authority of Jaabir(ra). He said, “‘Umar copied part of the Torah in Arabic, brought it to the Prophet , and began to read it to him. As he read, the Prophet’s face changed color. One of the men of the Ansaar said, "Woe to you Ibn Al-Khattaab! Can you not see the face of the Messenger of Allaah?’ Thereupon, the Prophet , said, ‘Do not ask the People of the Book about anything for they will not guide you when they have gone astray. (If you listen to them) You will either disbelieve in what is right or believe in what is false. By Allaah, if Moses had been alive today, he would have been obliged to follow me.’”

You answer is wrong brother and misleading.

Muhammad (pbuh) didn't say not to read the Injils (Bible) or to learn what it's teaching are about.

He just said not to ask the Christians to teach you about the Bible or their doctrine.