15 degrees or 18 degrees?
 

I really hope someone can help me with my confusion.
I realise now that there are a number of ways to work out the prayer times in the UK due to the choice of degrees one can use to calculate the timings, i.e. you can select either 15 degrees or 18 degrees, or other degrees.
My question is, who or what degree value do I follow?
My local mosque have a timetable which I don't have confidence in as they just seem to have set the yearly isha time to start exactly 90 mins after maghrib (which I know cannot be accurate), so if I can't accept that time of theirs I cannot pick and choose their other times if you know what I mean.
I want to follow a timetable with complete confidence and without following my nafs.
What should I do?
Your advice will be most appreciated.
Thank-you & jazakallah.

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The 90 min rule normally works with places close to equator and those areas not too far away from tropics. Even in S. Africa which is just below Tropic of Capricorn.. the 90 rules sort of works out.. (aprox 1hr 45 minutes is the max it goes)... But the issue comes when we talk about places further away from the tropics..like europe Canada etc..

http://z.about.com/d/geography/1/0/V/A/equator.jpg

For those areas please read this answer which is pertinant.

http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...6672129c6eb313

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Jazakallah for that link it was helpful.
I will follow 18 degrees then, until it gets tough during the summer months.
And do I HAVE to follow the same degrees at both ends of the day? Or could I do 18 deg at isha and 15 deg at fajr, or vice versa, if that is easier for me, if you know what I mean?

But what about ramadhan fasts?
If I follow 18 degrees for salah should I also follow 18 deg for sawm?
And when I fast in the summer when I'm following 15 deg for salah, should I also follow 15 deg for sawm?
Jazakallah. This really confuses me and my salah and sawm are being affected.

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This is only for Ishaa'. For fajr the time will be 18 deg. A one year actual sighting was conducted in Montreal, Canada which concluded that degree of elevation was indeed 18 deg. In Fajr, it is a specific time for the dawn, hence no ikhtilaf. You will finish your sehri according to that time.

So basically, if in time of difficulty the change will be in Ishaa' degree and NOT in the fajr time calculation.

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Respected Maulana (to be) saheb,
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So in the US should we always use 18 degrees for fajr time and for Isha only in the summer go by 15 degrees? Do you know any Maulvi in the US or North America who has researched this issue? Can I get contact info for them.

jazakallah
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Yes, fajr will remain same.

Mufti Ehzaz who has answered the above question now stays in Chicago. You can find out his contact and ask him personally inshAllah.

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Shaykh Nuh Keller has stated that the soundest position concerning this issue is the 18 degree position.

Him and couple of shuyukh tested both position and came to the conclusion that the 18 degree is the soundest position. He said that the reason why people have adopted the 15 degree position is because they did not realize that the city lights affected ones preception of the rising sun and gave a false indication that the 15 degree was correct.

So the 18 degree is the correct position according to Shaykh Nuh Keller.

-Silouan

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This issue is differed upon by the scholars. I would suggest you contact a local reliable mosque/Islamic organization/scholar and see what they say about it.

Wassalaam

Jazakallah! That clears up all my confusion.
Please prayer for me.

I am also stuck on which timetable calculator to use!!!
Everyone in my local area is following the local mosque timetable which seems to be based on 15 deg as their fajr is late.
I checked the Nautical Almanac site as posted by Muadh Khan in another thread, and for the Astronomical setting (18 deg) my fajr start time, or sehri end time comes out at half an hour earlier than my local community!

I know it is allowed to adopt the 15 deg for isha time "when it become difficult", so why can't I also adopt 15 deg for ramadan fajr/sehri time, "when it becomes difficult"?
Cos at the moment I have to wake up earlier than anybody else for sehri and then I have to wait longer to get fajr jamat in the masjid too! I end up eating and going to bed again because I have to go to work at 8am and I can't wait around for fajr jamaat!

What I'm confused about if that is both the 18 deg and 15 deg fatwas are valid fatwas (top scholars on both sides) then why can't we simply choose whichever is the easiest to follow? Why should we choose the harder fatwa if we are working ppl?

Advice is most appreciated. My life is hard at the moment!

(Uploaded yesterday) Mufti Hussain Kamani (grad from Bury)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obKcu5bArzE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46KEg...eature=related

aawwb
jazkALLAH brother for uploading.
brilliant,very easy explanations and very useful info provided by mufti saab.
may ALLAH SWT reward you all.

That link supplied by Abu Hajira on the 1st page seems to have expired http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...s/icon_sad.gif

Does anyone have a working link?



Apparently if you follow 18 degrees for both isha and fajr then twilight times have started in England right now. Well, in most parts of England I think anyway lol
Anyone doing the twilight thing this year?

I find these degrees very confusing also.

How do you know when a timetable is using 15 or 18 degrees going just by time alone? Not all timetables will specify the degrees they are have calculated the times.


Another question and perhaps one totally different but since we are on the subject and there seems to be a scholar in the thread (masha'allah) - when does 'twilight' end? i.e. we can pray magrib till the end of twilight - how do you define the end of twilight?

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Working link to the same fatwa:

http://askimam.org/public/question_detail/15287

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Perhaps the Ulama can sit down and settle down on this issue. They need to agree first:

1. There is no Ijma when Isha time really starts: Some say 18 degrees, some say 15 degrees, some say 12 degrees, and some just calculate 90 minutes after maghrib.

2. In the summer, the prayer times for Isha get very late in the UK. Above 12:00. Even if you abide by 15 degrees. In some places even following 12 grades is difficult since it reaches 12 hour.

3. Each and every mosque in UK does not follow 18 degrees, nor 15 degrees. While these degrees are agreed upon by the scholars, especially from the subcontinent.

4. Most of them do ot even follow 12 degrees, since that becomes late too. Basically, the Muslims in UK actually combine prayers, without them knowing. Even if they pray after 90 minutes, since the sun still descends to 18 degrees or at least to 15 degrees.

5. Ask the scholars of Darul Uloom Karachi why they still don't have a leeway for the people in UK to go below 15 degrees?

Assalamu 'alaikum,

I do not reside in the UK, hence I appreciate the answers to these questions:

1) What time is 'isha when it is 18 degrees in the UK in summer?

2) What time is 'isha when it is 15 degrees in the UK in summer?

3) How about when it is 12 degrees?

Here are some Fatwa by Mufti Taqi, Ibn Adam and others on the subject and worth reading before making up ones mind
http://www.wifaqululama.co.uk/18-deg...les-fatwa.html
http://www.wifaqululama.co.uk/18-deg...8-degrees.html

Here is a software from Wifaqul Ulema site for calculating salah time
http://www.wifaqululama.co.uk/salah-...alculator.html


Allahualam

Thanks for all those links.

The upshot seems to be that 15 degrees is not very accurate and 18 degrees is the way to go.

In that case tonight I'm gonna do my magrib salah and then do my isha salah straight after and then get an early night http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...nnah_smile.gif as isha time doesn't have a start time!