[ssyyyrruho]

O.K I'm honestly posting this thread to learn the conservative view point on this issue..So kindly senior members ...give your opinion about the issue...

So Can Islam be reformed?

In the Muslim cultures , "reformation and modernism" is wrong associated with 'Western Culture' or 'Westernization of society' ... Today , Muslims hold a land mass of ~ 30,000,000 sq. km and the total population of Muslims is 1.6 billion or so..but yet , we are NO WAY NEAR our true potential. Muslims have NO global prominence , other than 'oil' and 'terrorism' ....Our societies are riddled with sectarian violence , diseases , backwardness , and superstitions. Many people don't consider Shi'a to be Muslims. Discrimination against Shi'as and Ahmadis is the norm. And as it seems , Muslims are just going down and down and down... Rise of extremism has halted progress in many Muslim lands...

Now under such condition...we must look into ourselves ...what has gone wrong? why we are so backward and oppressed?

[B]Is there need for a reformation in Islam? By this sentence..first thing Muslims would think is "Astagfurullah! Islam is perfect...it doesn't need any reformation" and hence people will straight away reject this notion. But what people need to understand is that reformation won't change Islam..but reformation should come in the way 'Muslims see Islam' in their everyday life.[/B]

Javed Ahmad Ghamidi interpret Islam differently , and he is forced to run away...is THIS how it is suppose to be? If anyone comes with 'different interpretation of Islam due to his sincere understanding' , Muslims call him "kaffir" ... Isn't it a better way to have rational debates among different scholars on national Televisions , and people are given free choice to choose whatever interpretation they feel right according to their aqal?

For example , lets say the topic of Music .... In this forum , whenever this topic is raised ....there comes a swarm of posters saying "Haram! Haram ! Haram! Haram! Haram! Haram! Haram! Haram! Haram! Haram! Haram! Haram! Haram! Haram!" ... Well , they ALL know that their ARE scholars (though minority) that DOES NOT forbid all music....so if any Muslim wants to listen to music...why people have to shove it on their face 'HARAM!' .... People go like "Well wanna listen music? Its upto you brother..its your life you know...but you should know..if you ask scholars though..music is HARAM!" ... is THIS how it should be? Allah says that do NOT call that Haram which I have not call Haram! Allah NEVER directly calls 'Music' haram , so is THIS the way to practice Islam? Is music THIS big of a deal? If I pray my Salahs , study hard , play , respect parents , treat others well , and listen to some music when I feel like it.... am I living a sinful life?!?! and doing 'haram activities'? (Music I used just for an example..it goes for many other things)

Also , don't get me wrong , but WHY ultra conservative brothers put EXTRA emphasis on 'rituals' of Islam and thats it? Like if you ask them brothers about why Muslim lag behind in science and technology, economic prosperity , development etc...these brothers will always have this generic answer..."Well Ummah doesn't follow Qur'an. People doesn't even pray their Salah...this and that , this and that...why would Allah have his Rahmah on us...so that is why we don't progress!" ... Well with due respect , I disagree! "Rituals" have NOTHING to do with progress of any society.... It is our OTHER sins that cause this worldly demise... Like cheating , corruption , oppression of women , illiteracy , sectarianism , tribalism , political instability , isolation , lack of meritocracy , lack of freedom , setting up wrong priorities etc etc .... If we correct these things , then we would be able to progress better! Praying Salah and not praying Salah has NOTHING to do with it..Don't get me wrong..Salah uplifts human...but we MUST put the above mention worldly things in order FIRST and then use Islam as a 'spiritual force' to stablize the society...not some "ritualistic" force , which it has become today sadly.

Also , I believe , that Muslims MUST reform their thinking with respect to 21st century. Now we don't live in tribes....now we live in nations comprising of hundreds of millions!!!!! So to expect that EVERY BODY will perfectly practice Islam is invain. People will have many different views of life and let it be... Muslims MUST MUST understand the importance of media , drama , arts , culture , films ... This is called 'soft power' ... By using these tools powerfully , we can exert our influence globally! Damn , we are 1.6 billions!!!! Now I am NOT saying to force girls/boys into drama...no! But people who actually want to go in these fields...don't look upon them as "sinners! , Uh haram doers" etc .. Our young minds get influenced by Hollywood , and bollywood....is THIS acceptable? NO! So what is the way to fight it? It is NOT isolation...now these things have been invented..these things WILL exert their influence...just like you can not stop water from flowing downhill , similarly , you CAN NOT stop people from watching T.V , drama , films , listening to music etc...So what should be the 'reformed view' on this? I think that we should develop OUR industries...media channels , film industries , music etc ...that is close to OUR culture..in this way , our youth will get influenced by OUR culture atleast.... A classic example I once gave was Indian vs Pakistan dramas.... Now Pakistanis have started watching Pakistan dramas....first they used to watch Indian one's ...though not perfect...but Pakistani dramas are way , way , way , way more 'Islamic' and 'closer' to Islamic culture than Indian dramas would ever get! So you see , minimizing the bad effect factor plays here? I'm NOT saying that Pakistani dramas are perfectly Islamic...but they are better than Indian one's for sure...

So you either have TWO choices practically...

- Either minimize the damage by promoting Arts , Philosophy , Science , Music , Literature , Dramas , Film , Radio etc in OUR cultures (which will be closer to Islam obviously) ...

- OR either leave the field OPEN for complete KUFFRS to take 100% advantage of this and influence Muslim minds COMPLETELY and EFFECTIVELY. Kaffirs will drive the world opinion...and Islamic point of view will not even get any space!!!!

There is NO other way. Now I know that many people don't watch T.V etc..but masses can't be like that..and you know it!

So finally , reformation in Islam is NOT some change in Islam...but its Muslims' view of their religion and its use that is needed to be reformed! Shia vs Sunni conflict MUST stop immediately..separation between 'worldly duties' and 'spiritual duties' is must..setting our priorities right..Today for Ummah..advancement is economy , science , technology , achievement of political stability , good education, and prosperity of the common Muslim is WAY,WAY more important than 'Hijabs of girls' , music haram or halal issue etcetc..Later things have their own importance and place ..BUT our "priorities" should NOT be these..in such emergency times..we must set our priorities right..when previous mentioned goals are achieved..we have all the time to care about Hijab issue etc...but first , we should PROTECT our civilization , if we want to implement Islam in our lands....So , Muslims should start seeing their religion with more 'wider' view , in context of the new world we live in.... So , this reformation is definitely needed...

What you guys say? Thanks.. Point my mistakes (which I'm sure there are many.)...

[Jesslovers]

such a big post. must have taken quite a while, huh ? Dont think i will bother to respond. others do likewise.
brother, post not necessary. Ramadan is around the corner.Turn your attention to that.

[MexicoCity]

yes reformation is needed.it always has. but it does not mean that we can rewrite the fundamental parameters.

ordinary people can suggest which problems require solutions. and so can the ulema.
ordinary people can also suggest solutions.
but only ulema come up with the final say on the solutions.

islam has always been very dynamic without giving shariah into the hands of laymen.

[hwood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY17d4ZhY8M

jump to 1.oo hour
ghair mahram in beginning
than at 10 mins shaykh hamza yusuf

at first i used to misunderstand tariq ramadan
but he explains things very well here

basically its about going back to basics
tazkiyah
and removing the rot

[outfinofulpv]

They mean renewal, revival, reinvigoration and not reform

Islam came to reform Christianity and Judaism.

[Baromaro]

What you guys say? Thanks.. Point my mistakes (which I'm sure there are many.)...

I think this was a very good post with very important topics and solutions. keep it up.

[Woziwfaq]

such a big post. must have taken quite a while, huh ? Dont think i will bother to respond. others do likewise.
brother, post not necessary. Ramadan is around the corner.Turn your attention to that.

Do you live in Pakistan or some Western country?

I think this was a very good post with very important topics and solutions. keep it up.

Thank You.

What do you think is THE MOST important issue facing the Ummah?

[9mm_fan]

What do you think is THE MOST important issue facing the Ummah?

Sectarianism, intolerance of diversity, reduced enthusiasm of co-operation with Muslims whose views differ from us. Shia-sunni disunity. Sunni-salafi disunity. All these will be a hindrance to the Islamic Union as expressed by Harun Yahya. The Islamic Union will accelarate political, economic and scientific progress in most Muslim countries and improve the quality of life of every Muslim.

[Tapupah]

Sectarianism, intolerance of diversity, reduced enthusiasm of co-operation with Muslims whose views differ from us. Shia-sunni disunity. Sunni-salafi disunity. All these will be a hindrance to the Islamic Union as expressed by Harun Yahya. The Islamic Union will accelarate political, economic and scientific progress in most Muslim countries and improve the quality of life of every Muslim.

What kind of 'Union' ? Do you want a 'Union' like United States..where different Muslim nations will combine as "ONE" country under ONE leadership? Or Islamic Union will be like EU..Where different countries with different leaderships , systems etc will remain independent but form a 'Union of Alliance and co-operation' or something of that sort?

[DoctoNilsonDen]

What kind of 'Union' ? Do you want a 'Union' like United States..where different Muslim nations will combine as "ONE" country under ONE leadership? Or Islamic Union will be like EU..Where different countries with different leaderships , systems etc will remain independent but form a 'Union of Alliance and co-operation' or something of that sort?

The later model is more practical. Each country will retain its independence and sovereignty. There will be a union of alliance based on love, brotherhood, common values and increased co-operation and bias in trade, science and economics among each other.

[RaicickKida]

Some people on this forum have no idea what the reformist and ''modernist'' (I do not use this term at all) scholars actually said or what their methodology is. Honestly, some of the absolute rubbish on this forum insinuating the reformists of making zina halal or accusing them of ''destroying the Ummah'' when they turn a bind eye to the Taliban is just truly nauseous. Most of the so called ''refutations'' are badly written and do not even deal with the actual works of the reformists - but rather they invent poorly constructed arguments for them. At least reformists do not resort to violence to force down their opinions on anyone...

There is a lot of common ground between neo-traditionalists such as Shaykh Abdul Hakim Murad, Imam Suhaibb Webb, Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, Shaykh Yusuf al Qaradawi and reformists such as Tariq Ramadan.

Their methodologies maybe different but their conclusions most of the time converge together and the fact is that they share a lot of admiration and respect for each other - for instance look at the warm relationship between Shaykh Qaradawi and Tariq Ramadan or how Shaykh Hamza Yusuf shared a platform with Tariq Ramadan where they agreed on a lot of sensible issues.

If you read the work of neo-traditionalists like Shaykh Qaradawi and reformists like Tariq Ramadan you will see they share many points of agreement.

I recommend you read Shaykh Yusuf al Qaradawi's immense work, ''Priorities of the Islamic Movement in the Coming Phase'' (the full book is available in this link) (http://www.scribd.com/doc/7798605/Pr...sof-AlQardhawi) and Tariq Ramadan's ''Radical Reform - Islamic Ethics and Liberation''. (This is only a short portion of his work) (http://www.scribd.com/doc/94425975/R...and-Liberation).

These two works are an example of how the neo-traditionalist methodology can complement the reformist one.

Thank you for this post. Hope we have more and more members like you on this forum ....

[Hmwmzian]

Abu Shamah had narrated, via the Sanad of Abi Ziyad bin Hudayr, saying:




"Omar said to me: Do you know what destroys Islam? I said, No! He said: A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray".

[ziIReIGS]

Abu Shamah had narrated, via the Sanad of Abi Ziyad bin Hudayr, saying:




"Omar said to me: Do you know what destroys Islam? I said, No! He said: A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray".

O.K and.....?

You never engaged the original post though....