[SeelaypeKet]

So which one is part of the Barelvi aqeedah:
1) Prophet had all of 'ilm-ul-ghayb
2) Prophet had only some 'ilm-ul-ghayb given to him by Allah (towards the end of his life I believe, correct?)

If #1 is part of their aqeedah, then wouldn't that be shirk?

The main question has been answered by the post immediately after yours.
As far as the amount of Ilm-a-Ghaib imparted to beloved Prophet (PBUH) there can not be any problem with that. Qayamat is still in Ghaib -as believers we are honoured to be in the know of that. Time of Qiyamat is completely in the Ghaib. Whatever beloved Prophet (PBUH) saw on Mairaj is in Ghaib for us. And so on.

[BamSaitinypap]

So which one is part of the barelvi aqeedah:
1) prophet Had all of 'ilm-ul-ghayb
2) prophet Had only some 'ilm-ul-ghayb given to him by allah (towards the end of his life i believe, correct?)

if #1 is part of their aqeedah, then wouldn't that be shirk?

no it would not be shirk!!!

[Aleksis]

The Quran says "of knowledge you have been given little".

Also "No one knows the unseen except Allah" I do not have references for exact verses.

[ruforumczspam]

The Quran says "of knowledge you have been given little".

Also "No one knows the unseen except Allah" I do not have references for exact verses.

INFACT THE QUR'AN STATES,

“These are the tidings of Unseen that We reveal to you in secret”.

Surah-Ale-Imran, verse 44.

[slowlexrese]

INFACT THE QUR'AN STATES,

“These are the tidings of Unseen that We reveal to you in secret”.

Surah-Ale-Imran, verse 44.

The above verse is in regards to wahi, in specific the incident of Mariyam radiAllahu Anha. Does ANYONE reject that Wahi was revealed to Rasulullah , nope.

[Loolasant]

The above verse is in regards to wahi, in specific the incident of Mariyam radiAllahu Anha. Does ANYONE reject that Wahi was revealed to Rasulullah , nope.

Brother, the ayah which i quoted was to explain to brother abu zakir that the prophet has knowledge of ghaib. It has nothing to do with rejecting wahi.

[LSDDSL]

Twisting the words of the Qur'an, Ma'adha-Allah.

[bWxNFI3c]

Brother, the ayah which i quoted was to explain to brother abu zakir that the prophet has knowledge of ghaib. It has nothing to do with rejecting wahi.

ofcourse the wahi is from the knowledge of the ghaib. The ayah says it is and we believe it to be. who denies and says that A Nabi is not given Naba' from ghaib..? Afterall Nabi means one who gives naba' from ghaib.

So no, that itself is not the contention between barewi and deobandi. You will have to go a bit deeper than that.

[kertionderf]

ofcourse the wahi is from the knowledge of the ghaib. The ayah says it is and we believe it to be. who denies and says that A Nabi is not given Naba' from ghaib..? Afterall Nabi means one who gives naba' from ghaib.

So no, that itself is not the contention between barewi and deobandi. You will have to go a bit deeper than that.

i think your confused

[Paiblyelaxy]

i think your confused

I think your confused, with twisting the Qur'an, Fear Allah.

[chzvacmyye]

I think your confused, with twisting the Qur'an, Fear Allah.

May Allah guide you

[fygESytT]

i think your confused

Not at all.. your assertion is that the Ayah is openly talking about Allah giving Rasulullah Ilm from Ghaib. and I am saying that neither barelwi nor deoandi deny that. The problem is only with the connotation of being granted ilmul ghaib. The ayah is not talking about that. The word of the ayah are "ذَلِكَ مِنْ أَنْبَاءِ الْغَيْبِ نُوحِيهِ إِلَيْكَ" literally translated "that is from the information of Ghaib which we reveal unto thee". Now I dont know which plain understanding would tell us that it means we have revealed all of ghaib to you etc.

So your deduction is weak. You can try a bit harder..

[MontyP@thon]

Hereunder are two quotes from a previous discussion on the issue.. inshAllah they will help.

....It news to you because most of the time our barelvi friends dont even have patience to discuss the issue properly to understand the terminology. This stance is mentioned by Maulana Khaleel Ahmed Saharanpuri in Al Muhannad Alal Mufannad as well. See Question #18 which states that Rasulullah is A'lam in whole makhlooq. Then #19 mentions that anyone who says that any makhlooq is more a'lam than Rasulullah has commited kufr.. This is same Muhannad which was written in clarification / radd of Ml. Ahmad Raza Khan Saheb's Hussam al Haramain (which you boasted as a fatwa of kufr initiated from Arab - too bad most the the mufties who attested hussam later on made ruju' from their fatwas after they learnt about the truth of the matter)

Moreover, remember Hifz ul Imaan ibarat by Maulana Ashraf Ali THanvi r.a which was also brought up in hussam al haramain. That whole ibarah was actually explaining this very issue. of ba'dh ilm and kull ilm e ghaib**. but for that you will have to read the actual ibarah with full understanding.

Even Ml Ahmed Raza Saheb mentioned in is dawla tul makiya that anyone (from makhlooq) to have kull uloom ghaib is mahaal (impossible). This was exactly what hifz ul imaan talked about and what the jamhur aqida is. And this is exactly what you are denying by sanctioning Sh. Ghumari's views..

anyhow can you post the refernce and the urdu from fatawa rasheediya which says that any knowledge of the unseen. If the its "the knowledge" then that is jinsi i.e kulli.. but lets wait for the reference and the urdu..



** Note of clarification. After re-reading my own post, I could assess that my statement can (and most probably will) be misunderstood. Hence I post a clarification. When I say that Rasulullah had ba'dh ilm, a more appropriate trm for this would be akhbar ul ghaib. Since a Nabi by definition provides khabr of the ghaib, not that he knows of the ghaib. Whatever information is given to the Nabi from ghaib, he transfers it. Or from nasus we see that it could be itlaa' ul ghaib as well. This was also the reason why such ibarat have been misunderstood from our akabir as well.

also

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...muhammad-s-a-w

[Scukonahuy]

OK, Just to clarify what is the view of your akabir on the knowledge of Iblees and Malak ul Mawt, compared to our Beloved Rasool Sallallahu alaihi wasallam.

[Plulpangepler]

OK, Just to clarify what is the view of your akabir on the knowledge of Iblees and Malak ul Mawt, compared to our Beloved Rasool Sallallahu alaihi wasallam.

Let us get the first thing clarified first.
Was the Ilm-ul-Ghayb imparted to beloved Prophet (PBUH) complete or only part of it?

[orison]

Let us get the first thing clarified first.
Was the Ilm-ul-Ghayb imparted to beloved Prophet (PBUH) complete or only part of it?

It has to part, not whole, doesn't it?

If someone believed prophet had ALL of 'Ilm-ul-Ghayb, would that not be shirk?

[E4qC1qQ5]

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...265#post675265

MARIFUL QURAN tafseer of Suratul Yusuf 102-109verses.


The Difference between the News of the Unseen and the Knowledge of the Unseen

The statement: ۖ ذَٰلِكَ مِنْ أَنبَاءِ الْغَيْبِ نُوحِيهِ إِلَيْكَ ("That is a part of the reports of the unseen We reveal to you.." verse - 102) has appeared in the same words in verse 44 of Surah Al-Imraan in the context of the story of Sayyidah Maryam, that is: ۖ ذَٰلِكَ مِنْ أَنبَاءِ الْغَيْبِ نُوحِيهِ إِلَيْكَ; ("That is a part of the reports of the unseen We reveal to you..." - 3:44). Then, with a slight change, the same statement appears in verse 49 of Surah Hud where it is related to the story of Sayyidina Nuh (as) : ۖ تِلْكَ مِنْ أَنبَاءِ الْغَيْبِ نُوحِيهَا إِلَيْكَ ("These are reports from the unseen [events] which We reveal to you..." - 11:49).

From these verses we learn that Allah Ta'ala communicates to his prophets many a news of the unseen through Wahy (revelation). He has particularly blessed our Rasool , known as the Head of all the messengers, with a special portion of the news from the unseen, which is more than that which has been given to all past prophets. This is the reason why the Holy Prophet has informed the Muslim Ummah of many events due to happen right through the day of Qiyamah, either briefly, or in details. All Ahadith given in the Kitab al-Fitan of Hadith books are full of them.

Since common people take the Knowledge of the Unseen ('Ilm al-Ghayb) only in the sense that a person somehow gets to become aware of the news of the unseen, and this quality is found at its best in the Holy Prophet , therefore, they think that the Holy Prophet was 'Alim al-Ghayb (knower of the Unseen). But, the Holy Qur'an has declared in very clear words that: ۚ لَّا يَعْلَمُ مَن فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْ*ضِ الْغَيْبَ إِلَّا اللَّـهُ ("No one in the heavens, or on the Earth, knows the unseen except Allah.." - 27:65) which proves that no one, other than Allah Ta'ala, can be called the 'Alim al-Ghayb or the Knower of the Unseen. The 'Ilm of al-Ghayb (the knowledge of the unseen) is the unique attribute of Allah Ta'ala. Taking an apostle, messenger, prophet or angel as a sharer in this attribute amounts to equating him with Allah, and is what the Christians do, who declare a Rasool to be the son of God, and a partner in Godhead.

The verses of the Holy Quran quoted here make the truth of the matter very clear. It stands settled that the 'Ilm of al-Ghayb (the knowledge of the unseen) is an exclusive attribute of Allah Ta'ala and the only 'Alim al-Ghayb ( the Knower of the Unseen) is Allah jalla thana'uh Himself. However, there are many news of the unseen which Allah Ta'ala does give to his messengers through the medium of Wahy (revelation). This, in the terminology of the Holy Qur'an, is not known as the 'Ilm of al-Ghayb (the knowledge of the unseen). Since common people do not understand this fine difference, they tend to take the 'news of the unseen' as the 'knowledge of the unseen'. This is why when one adheres to the terminology of the Qur'an and asserts that no one, other than Allah, can claim to know what is unseen, they would prefer to differ, rather than accept truth as it is.

[xyupi]

It has to part, not whole, doesn't it?

That is what we believe.
If someone believed prophet had ALL of 'Ilm-ul-Ghayb, would that not be shirk? We should not worry about that because beloved Prophet (PBUH) was not given the complete knowledge of the unseen.

[r5YOPDyk]

That is what we believe.

We should not worry about that because beloved Prophet (PBUH) was not given the complete knowledge of the unseen.

Yeah, thats what I believed to. And this is also the aqeedah of Barelwi's, right?

[GeorgeEckland]

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...265#post675265

MARIFUL QURAN tafseer of Suratul Yusuf 102-109verses.


The Difference between the News of the Unseen and the Knowledge of the Unseen

The statement: ۖ ذَٰلِكَ مِنْ أَنبَاءِ الْغَيْبِ نُوحِيهِ إِلَيْكَ ("That is a part of the reports of the unseen We reveal to you.." verse - 102) has appeared in the same words in verse 44 of Surah Al-Imraan in the context of the story of Sayyidah Maryam, that is: ۖ ذَٰلِكَ مِنْ أَنبَاءِ الْغَيْبِ نُوحِيهِ إِلَيْكَ; ("That is a part of the reports of the unseen We reveal to you..." - 3:44). Then, with a slight change, the same statement appears in verse 49 of Surah Hud where it is related to the story of Sayyidina Nuh (as) : ۖ تِلْكَ مِنْ أَنبَاءِ الْغَيْبِ نُوحِيهَا إِلَيْكَ ("These are reports from the unseen [events] which We reveal to you..." - 11:49).

From these verses we learn that Allah Ta'ala communicates to his prophets many a news of the unseen through Wahy (revelation). He has particularly blessed our Rasool , known as the Head of all the messengers, with a special portion of the news from the unseen, which is more than that which has been given to all past prophets. This is the reason why the Holy Prophet has informed the Muslim Ummah of many events due to happen right through the day of Qiyamah, either briefly, or in details. All Ahadith given in the Kitab al-Fitan of Hadith books are full of them.

Since common people take the Knowledge of the Unseen ('Ilm al-Ghayb) only in the sense that a person somehow gets to become aware of the news of the unseen, and this quality is found at its best in the Holy Prophet , therefore, they think that the Holy Prophet was 'Alim al-Ghayb (knower of the Unseen). But, the Holy Qur'an has declared in very clear words that: ۚ لَّا يَعْلَمُ مَن فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْ*ضِ الْغَيْبَ إِلَّا اللَّـهُ ("No one in the heavens, or on the Earth, knows the unseen except Allah.." - 27:65) which proves that no one, other than Allah Ta'ala, can be called the 'Alim al-Ghayb or the Knower of the Unseen. The 'Ilm of al-Ghayb (the knowledge of the unseen) is the unique attribute of Allah Ta'ala. Taking an apostle, messenger, prophet or angel as a sharer in this attribute amounts to equating him with Allah, and is what the Christians do, who declare a Rasool to be the son of God, and a partner in Godhead.

The verses of the Holy Quran quoted here make the truth of the matter very clear. It stands settled that the 'Ilm of al-Ghayb (the knowledge of the unseen) is an exclusive attribute of Allah Ta'ala and the only 'Alim al-Ghayb ( the Knower of the Unseen) is Allah jalla thana'uh Himself. However, there are many news of the unseen which Allah Ta'ala does give to his messengers through the medium of Wahy (revelation). This, in the terminology of the Holy Qur'an, is not known as the 'Ilm of al-Ghayb (the knowledge of the unseen). Since common people do not understand this fine difference, they tend to take the 'news of the unseen' as the 'knowledge of the unseen'. This is why when one adheres to the terminology of the Qur'an and asserts that no one, other than Allah, can claim to know what is unseen, they would prefer to differ, rather than accept truth as it is.