[Loonakind]

18:86
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. Allah said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness."

To refute this verse, muslims will say that Allah was stating what Zul-qarnain thought.


But...


Ibn Khuzaymah narrated in his Saheeh (9105) and in his Kitaab al-Tawheed (no. 594) that Ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “Between the lowest heaven and the one above it is (a distance of) five hundred years, and between each heaven and the next is (a distance of) five hundred years marching.” According to another report: “The thickness of each heaven is a distance of five hundred years marching. Between the seventh heaven and the Footstool (al-Kursiy) is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between the Footstool and the water is (a distance of) five hundred years. The Throne is above the water and Allaah is above the Throne, and none of your deeds are concealed from Him.” It was classed as saheeh by al-Dhahabi in al-‘Alw (p. 64) and by Ibn al-Qayyim in Ijtimaa’ al-Juyoosh al-Islamiyyah, p. 100.



It was narrated that Ibn Mas’ood said: Between the first heaven and the one above it is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between each of the heavens is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between the seventh heaven and the Kursiy is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between the Kursiy and the water is (a distance of) five hundred years, and the Throne is above the water. Allaah is above the Throne, and nothing whatsoever of your deeds is hidden from Him. (narrated by Ibn Khuzaymah in al-Tawheed, p. 105; by al-Bayhaqi in al-Asmaa’ wa’l-Sifaat, p. 401).
This report was classed as saheeh by Ibn al-Qayyim in Ijtimaa’ al-Juyoosh al-Islamiyah, p. 100; by al-Dhahabi in al-‘Uluw, p. 64).
Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said:
This hadeeth stops at Ibn Mas’ood (it is mawqoof), but this is one of the matters concerning which there is no room for personal opinion, so it comes under the heading of marfoo’ [ahaadeeth whose isnaad goes back to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)], because Ibn Mas’ood is not known to have taken anything from the Israa’eeliyyaat [reports derived from Jewish sources].



If we follow this 2 sahih hadeeth, there's water under the throne of Allah. Please, do no say that the translation is bad because Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab in Kitab At-Tauhid, chapter 67, states (in important issues of the chapter #15): Allah's Throne is above the water.


Also:

Narrated Abu Zar: The Prophet (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) asked me at sunset, “ Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?” I replied, “Allah and His Apostle know better.” He said.” It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates itself underneath the Throne, and takes permission to rise again, and it is permitted, and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: {And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed), that is the Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing}


So let's put all this together...

1. There is water under the throne of Allah
2. The sun sets under the throne of Allah
3. So the sun sets in the water


*Logically, the sun can't set in water
*The sun never sets, it appears to us that it sets.

[ONLINEPHARMACYCHEAPILLS]

you already stated the water under the throne thing in another thread and received replies. why do you bring it up again?

[Hoijdxvh]

you already stated the water under the throne thing in another thread and received replies. why do you bring it up again?

this thread is different

[fameintatenly]

APM 08279+5255 - The Largest Water Mass In The Universe (So Far)

http://www.science20.com/news_articl...e_so_far-81124

[Wgnhqhlg]

APM 08279+5255 - The Largest Water Mass In The Universe (So Far)

http://www.science20.com/news_articl...e_so_far-81124

Did you at least read the thread???

[smazibummigue]

"Between the Footstool and the water is (a distance of) five hundred years. The Throne is above the water and Allaah is above the Throne, and none of your deeds are concealed from Him.” It was classed as saheeh by al-Dhahabi in al-‘Alw (p. 64) and by Ibn al-Qayyim in Ijtimaa’ al-Juyoosh al-Islamiyyah, p. 100. What do you think is The Throne and the Footstool? A Giant chair and footstool like we human use floating on a sea? It is obvious that this is talking about unseen realities.

The sun setting into a muddy sea is obviously talking about what it appeared like to dhul Qarnayn, it was not actaully setting into a muddy spring.

[sPncEjF7]

Did you at least read the thread???

yes i did...and this was your first objection. did that link clear it up for you?

[DarrenBent]

The sun setting into a muddy sea is obviously talking about what it appeared like to dhul Qarnayn, it was not actaully setting into a muddy spring.

Take into account the Hadeeth too, not only the quranic verse!
In the hadeeth, it says that the sun sets under the throne of Allah, and there is water under his throne.
The verses is saying that the sun sets in water.

[verizon]

Take into account the Hadeeth too, not only the quranic verse!
In the hadeeth, it says that the sun sets under the throne of Allah, and there is water under his throne.
The verses is saying that the sun sets in water.

The hadith is talking about unseen realities not the sun in the sky.

[risyGreeple]

yes i did...and this was your first objection. did that link clear it up for you?

The sun is not setting in water!

[ElcinBoris]

18:86
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. Allah said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness."

i dont understand arabic so correct me if i am wrong, but reading this in english sounds like to me that dhul qarnayn walked till the sun started setting and at the point that it started setting, he reached a place of dark mud where he found some people.

[Rategbee]

The hadith is talking about unseen realities not the sun in the sky.

The imaginary fact that the sun is setting in water is an ''unseen reality'' for you

[fereupfer]

i dont understand arabic so correct me if i am wrong, but reading this in english sounds like to me that dhul qarnayn walked till the sun started setting and at the point that it started setting, he reached a place of dark mud where he found some people.

I dont understand arabic

[jinnsamys]

The sun is not setting in water!

nobody said it did.

this is what you said...


So let's put all this together...

1. There is water under the throne of Allah
2. The sun sets under the throne of Allah
3. So the sun sets in the water
and i answered number 1. so can we discuss number 1 and get that over with before we move on to number 2? did you read the link i posted in relation to number 1?

[sat23neus2]

nobody said it did.

this is what you said...





and i answered number 1. so can we discuss number 1 and get that over with before we move on to number 2? did you read the link i posted in relation to number 1?

Yes I did, but the sun is not setting in a water mass. And I do not why you posted this link, how could Zul Qarnain go beyond the earth.

And you didnt respond to number 1

[Staillateno]

Yes I did, but the sun is not setting in a water mass. And I do not why you posted this link, how could Zul Qarnain go beyond the earth.

And you didnt respond to number 1

1. There is water under the throne of Allah
water has been discovered in distant areas of space. so why do you have a problem with water being under the throne of Allah?

[AndyColemants]

water has been discovered in distant areas of space. so why do you have a problem with water being under the throne of Allah?

You're right, I dont have a problem with it anymore.

[RafaelYV]

are you saying that the 'muddy spring' and the 'water under the throne of Allah' is one and the same?

[ArrereGarhync]

are you saying that the 'muddy spring' and the 'water under the throne of Allah' is one and the same?

Yes, the hadeeths are saying that there is water under the throne of Allah and the sun sets under his Throne. And the verses is talking about the sun setting in water.

[forumsfavoriteall]

You're right, I dont have a problem with it anymore.

ok. thats good.

so the scientists caught up with the words of Allah and His Prophet . remember there will be many other things that may seem strange to us, but that is because science has yet to catch up with quran and hadith in some cases.