[IdomeoreTew]

does the Quran not refer to the believing Christian and the believing Jew and the believing Sabian ?

Does the Quran not say no one is accountable till they recieve the message. ?

Is unitarianism not an inclination towards monotheism ?

Is Islam not monotheism ?

Given the lack of access to Islamic material, or any muslims, and the threat of a excommunication or heresy, i think he deserves a Mashallah ?

You mean this verse?

Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

This is talking about the Jews, Christians and Sabeans that came before Prophet Muhammad. As in, the real Christians, who followed Isa's teaches, and the real Jews, who followed Moses' teachings.
But I'll let Brother amr123 post the full tafseer of this ayah, inshaAllah.

Yes, the core of Islam is monotheism, but Newton did not accept many key aspects of Islam, like the Prophethood of Muhmmad , and this makes him a non-Muslim. Not all Monotheists are Muslims. Jews and Sikhs are monotheists, are the Muslim? No.

[IdomeoreTew]

I usually do not get ideas to invite atheists.
And a lot of scientists are not atheists. The trouble is that atheists dominate the discourse and this gives the impression that all of them are atheists.

So the field of Dawah is open for scientists too.

Atheists are extremely hard to give dawah too. Not to generalize, but most of them are extremely arrogant. Can you Imagine Richard Dawkins ever taking the Shadah!

[Gosxjqum]

see post 19 - akhi

how about "no one is accountable till they recieve the message"

I think this is how the laymen can get confused by the Quran. If you take one verse in isolation, without due respect to the whole body of literature, and the whole body of concensus ?

To be fair to me i did post two principles, but only my first principle is being addressed here ?

Yes, the core of Islam is monotheism, but Newton did not accept many key aspects of Islam With respect brother, it takes a brave soul to make a judgement on whether an individul living in England in the 17th Century even RECIEVED the key aspects of Islam, to be able to accept it.

Allah knows best of course.

[wrardymar]

does the Quran not refer to the believing Christian and the believing Jew and the believing Sabian ?

Do not defend Newton for being a christian with the above ayah.


As for whether He got the message of Quran or not, thats a different story.

Allah knows best.

[anenselog]

Atheists are extremely hard to give dawah too. Not to generalize, but most of them are extremely arrogant. Can you Imagine Richard Dawkins ever taking the Shadah!

I understand akhi.
But if I bump into him then, IA, I shall confound him - I cordially invite you to Islam Herr Doktor Dawkins.

[IdomeoreTew]

see post 19 - akhi

What about it?

He wasn't a Muslim. Im not reading his heart, im reading the historical evidence. He defined himself as a Christian, so why would I believe he was a Muslim?

Anyway, Monotheism is better than Polytheism (which trinitarian Christianity actually is), so thats good.

[IdomeoreTew]

I understand akhi.

Sorry Maripat, was I being redundant?

[wrardymar]

Atheists are extremely hard to give dawah too. Not to generalize, but most of them are extremely arrogant. Can you Imagine Richard Dawkins ever taking the Shadah!

lolz,

But bro, remember Allah Ta'ala gave guidance to a man who was on the way to KILL our beloved Rasoolullah . Now we know him as Umar ibn Al Khattab (ra)!

Our job is only to spread the message, whether the listener accepts it or not is not with us, its with Allah Ta'ala alone.

[IdomeoreTew]

lolz,

But bro, remember Allah Ta'ala gave guidance to a man who was on the way to KILL our beloved Rasoolullah . Now we know him as Umar ibn Al Khattab (ra)!

Our job is only to spread the message, whether the listener accepts it or not is not with us, its with Allah Ta'ala alone.

You are right akhi. He guides whom He wills. And Subhanallah, the story of 'Umar conversion always reminds me of the power of the Qur'an.

May Allah grant hidayah to Richard Dawkins. Ameen!

and Jazakallah for posting the tafseer.

[Gosxjqum]

What about it?

He wasn't a Muslim. Im not reading his heart, im reading the historical evidence. He defined himself as a Christian, so why would I believe he was a Muslim?

Anyway, Monotheism is better than Polytheism (which trinitarian Christianity actually is), so thats good.

The question is not what he defined himself as, the question is the Quran ayah

"NO one is accountable till they recieve the message. "

Some ulema say that they get tested in afterlife, or that Allah knows what they would have inclined towards.

This is a very modern phenomenon, to think everyone automatically has FULL knowledge of the key aspects of Islam, for you would HAVE to read hearts to know this.

There were zero muslims around him. There was zero islamic literature, and no internet or mass media ? Tough to condemn a man under these circumstances.

We take for granted we were born into the religion.

[anenselog]

Sorry Maripat, was I being redundant?

No.

[IdomeoreTew]

The question is not what he defined himself as, the question is the Quran ayah

"NO one is accountable till they recieve the message. "

Some ulema say that they get tested in afterlife, or that Allah knows what they would have inclined towards.

This is a very modern phenomenon, to think everyone automatically has FULL knowledge of the key aspects of Islam, when we take for granted we were born into the religion.

Wait, so your saying that he didn't know about Islam? He did know about Islam, who doesn't? He was a Christian, and every Christian knows about Islam because the two religions are compared very often. And since he knows about the religion of Islam, he will be held accountable for not learning more about it and not accepting it.

Its only if you were completely oblivious of the fact that Islam existed that you might have a chance in the akhira.

Bro, Newton died a non-Muslim, I dont understand why you are defending him.

[IdomeoreTew]

No.

Bro Maripat, you mind me asking you for your e-mail? Are we allowed to give out e-mails on the forum?

[Gosxjqum]

Wait, so your saying that he didn't know about Islam? He did know about Islam, who doesn't? He was a Christian, and every Christian knows about Islam because the two religions are compared very often. And since he knows about the religion of Islam, he will be held accountable for not learning more about it and not accepting it.

Its only if you were completely oblivious of the fact that Islam existed that you might have a chance in the akhira.

Bro, Newton died a non-Muslim, I dont understand why you are defending him.

You have to read hearts to know what faith a human died upon.

The trouble is youve made your mind on him being condemened, so if you start from that position its very problematic. You should start from the reverse position, in my opinion.

Its only if you were completely oblivious of the fact that Islam existed that you might have a chance in the akhira. I dont think that is the concensus of the Ulema. Also i dont think you can say "who doesnt know about Islam" to negate the verse, "no one is accountable till they recieve the message"

17th Century England, was not a place where access to Islam was readily available. How many Islam books were there in existence in ENGLISH in the 17th Century. ? probably NONE !

Newton would have HAD to known Arabic to have access. Again nearly impossible given the time and place he was living.

Allah knows best.

[IdomeoreTew]

Brother Sequalizer. I love you for the sake of Allah, which is why I will not debate with you in this matter. We're done here.

[anenselog]

If any moderator is passing by then kindly give my email to brother a.s.

In the meanwhile tell me the names of the people whose email you have. May be there is a common name.

[lammaredder]

a.s. it is a common belief of westerners that science contradicts religion and that most scientists are atheists. This view is held by people who dont even know what Newtons laws are. So the fact that one of their science heroes and one of the forefathers of modern science believes there must have been a creator is indeed significant.

And Allahu a'lam, maybe if he was introduced to islam he would have fully accepted it, he seems to have been arriving at the truth through reason and research.

I've blogged:

http://islamandscienceinharmony.wordpress.com/

Its only a quick thing so I plan to build on this post with more research and detail inshAllah, I just wanted to get something up to be built upon further inshAllah

[lammaredder]

Sequaliser can you provide a reference for the verse taht noone is questioned until they receive the message?

Also how come you chose a name similar to the equaliser? Coincidence or was it intentional? Just curious

[Gosxjqum]

Sequaliser can you provide a reference for the verse taht noone is questioned until they receive the message?

Also how come you chose a name similar to the equaliser? Coincidence or was it intentional? Just curious

So that when i would say sorry to you brother, you would recognise who it is

Sorry brother.

(i thought it was quite clever actually, a Sequal follows from the first installment...but seems my wit is too dry

[lammaredder]

oh ok no problem akhi I love you for the sake of Allah. im sorry too.

Any chance of that ayah btw for my reference?