[gennnniiikk]

No I have not read any of these manifestos, however I have studied under Deobandies all my life where I live in the UK and I have never heard them mention anything about Islamic rule and how we might be able to take some steps as a jamma to make it happen. The Alim I listen to always says you are a 6 foot tall man, make the shariah apply to your own body before you try to talk about khilafa etc. Banks are never criticised, riba is hardly ever mentioned. Secularism means religion is a private affair for individuals to follow if they wish, it has nothing to do with the way a country should be run. And the type of religion followed by the hanafis I know is perfect for this secularism.

this is because you and your hanafi teacher are in UK. not in pakistan.

I mean do any of the hanafis have fiqh rules of how Muslims might live in the world without a riba banking system? How we might be able to have a working alternative? As far as I know they do not, and most of their fatwas just make Islam fit in and work within the dominant capitalist system...not replace it.

ahkam as sultaniyya quotes views from all madhahibs and treats the reader to the opinion in which imam abu hanfa (rh) differed from the rest. worth a read
also i think you have not correctly understood mufti taqi's economic model.

[Olphander]

The Deobandi's of the subcontinent 'appear' rigid, because of they have to act against the widespread BIDAH in the subcontinent. Eg: Even though mawlid is allowed in some Madhabs, the Hanafi Deobandis of the subcontinent strictly forbids it BECAUSE of the the widespread BIDAH the berelvis do with it.

Lets not blame them, what else can they do? These are testing times.
May Allah protect us. ameen.

[Flalafuse]

Hanafis do not talk about government policies they are largely (I do not like using this word because it is not really an Islamic word) apolitrical (non political). This is because the Osmanli khilafat was hanafi and it ruled for 800 years, hanafis took the surrounding society as a given not something that needed changing. This is still part of the Hanafi way even when the surrounding society is completely different. Hanafis are very secular.

It difficult in the extreme to believe this and the similar enunciation in the earlier post.

We shall talk of Shamli 1857 or so.
We shall continue from there.
Till we talk about Silken Kerchief Movement.

[Kokomoxcvcv]

salaam, i seen the comment on his facebook

[DoctorQuquriramba]

No I have not read any of these manifestos, however I have studied under Deobandies all my life where I live in the UK and I have never heard them mention anything about Islamic rule and how we might be able to take some steps as a jamma to make it happen. The Alim I listen to always says you are a 6 foot tall man, make the shariah apply to your own body before you try to talk about khilafa etc. Banks are never criticised, riba is hardly ever mentioned. Secularism means religion is a private affair for individuals to follow if they wish, it has nothing to do with the way a country should be run. And the type of religion followed by the hanafis I know is perfect for this secularism.

I mean do any of the hanafis have fiqh rules of how Muslims might live in the world without a riba banking system? How we might be able to have a working alternative? As far as I know they do not, and most of their fatwas just make Islam fit in and work within the dominant capitalist system...not replace it.

1) Would you prefer they were at war in a foreign secular state where they, aswell as other muslims, have generally been given freedom and protection to practice the key aspects of their Deen (except hudood)? There are other ways of having influence in the financial sphere - Dawah on Ethical business practice (Inline with Islam), devising clever solutions to such issues as Mortgages agreements (localised Islamic mortgage syndicates) - They are actually happening now, Inshallah they will gain more prominence in the future.

2) I cannot say I know, but was there a non-Ribba system for the first few hundred years of Islam - wherein the Hanafi madhab grew??? Therein lies the beginning of a more detailed answer. I'm sure Imam Abu Hanifa, Abu Yusuf, Muhammad, Zufr were not practicing in a Ribba-laden economic state - so whatever they were developing out of that pure system could (possibly) be followed-up upon? There methodology in finance and trading could be followed?


Hanafi's are 'apolitical'? They have been extremely involved in politics where they have gained sufficient resources and influence. Not so in the UK, but that will change in time IA. The weight of making these changes rests with all muslims - especially the ones who hold the most influence in these areas (monetary system and economics).

Allahu A'lam

[Zhgpavye]

salaam, i seen the comment on his facebook

I know, but the exact link?

[HonjUopu]

Salam
Fifth: I had said it many times: I do not endorse the modernist approach of jumping and cherry-picking from the madhhabs, nor I endorse the "www.weekopinioninthemadhhab4everybody.com" attitude. But I don't like deobandic rigidity nor puritanism (by the way, both go together). I consider them sicknesses of the heart that need sufi treatment.

would people agree and say this isnt correct and deoband has produced many sufi scholars aswell

To be honest has any Deobandi forced you to do anything in your entire life ??

If the approach is rigid, the times require it perhaps, as holding on to your Deen is like holding on to hot coals. ?

They would rather be rigid in advice, knowing no one follows advice to the extreme letter, so that at least we will be nearer to benefit and further from doubt ?

Werent all the main Deobandi Ulema sufis ?

[DagoIgnog]

Insha Allah things will change, Muslims in the UK will start to select leaders in their communities who will take Muslims forward, towards halal loans.

One possible solution...though I am not sure I know how it would work amongst Muslims. The BBC recently had a page about peer to peer money lending

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18370777

it by-passes the banks and put lenders and borrowers in touch directly. Muslims might be able to do something similar but of course they do not charge interest. Maybe money could be borrowed to some other Muslim in return for a share in the property or business? I think it is a good opportunity which some Muslim may undertake...think about the rewards from Allah if someone does it.

[Goooooblin]

Insha Allah things will change, Muslims in the UK will start to select leaders in their communities who will take Muslims forward, towards halal loans.

One possible solution...though I am not sure I know how it would work amongst Muslims. The BBC recently had a page about peer to peer money lending

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18370777

it by-passes the banks and put lenders and borrowers in touch directly. Muslims might be able to do something similar but of course they do not charge interest. Maybe money could be borrowed to some other Muslim in return for a share in the property or business? I think it is a good opportunity which some Muslim may undertake...think about the rewards from Allah if someone does it.

The biggest problem with p2p borrowing and lending is the risk involved. A bank has a diversified portfolio and can take risks to lend out loans. But in p2p a single indibvidual may not be in the same position.

This is the biggest hurdle. Especially knowing the wide breadth and width of our ummah, one person may not know the other, even more risk. THen you will need to bring in kafalah. Doable, but pretty tasking...

[HonjUopu]

Insha Allah things will change, Muslims in the UK will start to select leaders in their communities who will take Muslims forward, towards halal loans.

One possible solution...though I am not sure I know how it would work amongst Muslims. The BBC recently had a page about peer to peer money lending

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18370777

it by-passes the banks and put lenders and borrowers in touch directly. Muslims might be able to do something similar but of course they do not charge interest. Maybe money could be borrowed to some other Muslim in return for a share in the property or business? I think it is a good opportunity which some Muslim may undertake...think about the rewards from Allah if someone does it.

Muslims have been doing p2p lending in UK,US and Canada for over 50 years...I personally was involved in one nearly 20 years ago !!

Im sure many muslim families do the same, they call it a "Committee" in charming colloquial English/Urdu.

The BBC is slow on the story

[Kokomoxcvcv]

I know, but the exact link?

Salaam it was on Ustadh Abdus Shakur Brooks facebook. (facebook his name) i cant reember the rule about posting links... anyway the comments are there

look for
FATWA CONTRARY TO THE MASHOOR: (it has 36 comments)

Shaykh ‘Ulaysh (1299 A.H) mentions in his well-known book of fatwa titled Fath ul-‘Aliy Al-Malik fi’l-fatwa ‘ala Madhhab al-Imam Malik, in which he quotes al-Maziri ( 536 A.H) after establishing that a person cannot give a fatwa contrary to the mashoor :

…..أن العدول عن المشهور أو ما رجحه شيوخ المذهب الملكى من ضعف العلم و قلة الدين

“Verily the abandonment of following the mashoor or what the authoritative scholars of the madhhab [ such as Ibn Rushd -520 A.H- and others like him] have considered as al- rajih [the sound opinion] is an example of the decadence of knowledge and religious integrity.”

[Zhgpavye]

Oh, I see.

Someone posted it on his wall regarding this.

[Kokomoxcvcv]

that was me. did someone send me q facebook request called zaid farooqi? wasalaam