[Thunderzee]

Some of my favourite childhood memories include biking beside my father as he jogged, tobogganing and skating with my family, and camping. Summer or winter - outdoor activities are a great way to spend time with the family.

[c6vkuNRg]

Oh yeah and those people who just watch sports all day should get up and do it themselves. Why are you having fun watching someone else having fun?

[c6vkuNRg]

Some of my favourite childhood memories include biking beside my father as he jogged, tobogganing and skating with my family, and camping. Summer or winter - outdoor activities are a great way to spend time with the family.

Thats it. fun is having a good time among yourselves not wasting resources so the world can see what u are doing.

[orillaVar]

Deleted. I will say this Comparing female athletes to prostitutes is a huge exaggeration and it is a horrible thing to do. Comments and views like this make ne fear for islam and for.humanity.

How is the comparison an exaggeration? The women in the Olympics expose their bodies for the whole world to see. They have zero modesty. The comparison is very accurate.

[Zebrabitch]

@brother warea - Provide the basis then.

Give evidence from the Fuqahaa and the Sahaabah where they considered the necessity for such sporting facilities for women. The hadith of the Ethiopians has been misinterpreted to death. If you are correct in your statement please provide for me one statement from the Aimmah, muhadditheen and the commentators who have inferred that sporting facilities for women are allowed from this hadith.

The onus of the proof is on the claimant. If you are unable to provide one such statement then please retract your statement.

you say that my quote in itself is the basis. Basis for what? Sporting facilities for women???? Or only allowing certain forms of 'entertainment' for men??

Following the sahaabah is a command of Rasulullah and the Qur'aan in the verse I quoted. They are our role models.

Please expound further instead of making general statements.

May Allah forgive us.

No one talked about "neccessity". Its about permissibility. The hadiths are enough evidence. I can't help your literalist appraoch of expecting a statement "women are allowed to play so and so in so and so place at sso and so time". No proofs are obtained tht way. A general eevidence is enough and it is onus upon you to come and provide evidence for your prohibitions. No one gave you the right to declare something haraam, as far as i know. And even in the principle of bidah, everyone across the sectarian board admits that in matters not related to worship, everything is permissible until proven forbidden. If there is any onus existing its about you for your holier than thou appraoch expecting all Muslims to be ascetic saints and for declaring things as haram by your personal desire.

[c6vkuNRg]

No one talked about "neccessity". Its about permissibility. The hadiths are enough evidence. I can't help your literalist appraoch of expecting a statement "women are allowed to play so and so in so and so place at sso and so time". No proofs are obtained tht way. A general eevidence is enough and it is onus upon you to come and provide evidence for your prohibitions. No one gave you the right to declare something haraam, as far as i know. And even in the principle of bidah, everyone across the sectarian board admits that in matters not related to worship, everything is permissible until proven forbidden. If there is any onus existing its about you for your holier than thou appraoch expecting all Muslims to be ascetic saints and for declaring things as haram by your personal desire.

Exactly what is permissible?

[Thunderzee]

Olympic level clothes are engineered for improved performance, not prostitution. Usually it is the coach who picks the uniform, not the athlete. Teams are usually sponsored and are loyal to their sponsors (Nike for instance). Unfortunately, less is more in that context - less friction = more speed/less clothing, less friction = more speed/tight clothing, less friction = more speed. And for that purpose alone, it makes little sense for practicing Muslims to compete in Olympics. However, that said, it is not fair for us to judge the intent of athletes here by comparing them to prostitutes. Why aren't we holding our tongues?

Also, this isn't just applicable to women... men don't cover their awrah properly in olympics either. But that is besides the point - I highly doubt any of the athletes are thinking about flaunting their beauty - and if that is how any of us end up reading their actions, then it is probably best for them not to watch the athletes in the first place.

[c6vkuNRg]

Also, this isn't just applicable to women... men don't cover their awrah properly in olympics either. that is very true

[Riprincattiva]

I start really doubting my faith, not because of non-Muslims but because of some responses by Muslims. I take issue with how man can be corrupt as they like, do what they like, follow not even an ounce of Islam and go mad because a woman has walked out of the house and a man might see her and want her. I mean it's strange and it really makes me doubt Islam because of these extreme, jumping the gun and oppressive (in some cases) responses.

Where are the kind gentle Muslim men?

I know that secular states are not the solution and in fact in some cases part of the problem, but the other extreme is seen an so many Muslims, I understand modesty, i tell my Mother to wear the Hijab any time she goes out. But I never get angry or upset at her going out, that is her right she may leave when she likes as long as it is not for a haraam purpose.

It seems women are being stopped from doing everything now except from attending to the "great practising" Muslim husband, cooking for him, taking care of the children, while the man can go out with whoever (as long as it is not Haraam), when he wants without any permission. It's absurd to me, may be I have been "influenced" by the western society i have grown up in... but i know the wrongs in this society and i always speak up against them.

I just wish Muslims were more calm and understanding in their approach, not so direct and angry seeming at everything.

(BTW i do not support the women from Saudi doing whatever she is doing in the Olympics, apart from maybe being in one of the events, as long as hijab is kept).

[c6vkuNRg]

I start really doubting my faith, not because of non-Muslims but because of some responses by Muslims. I take issue with how man can be corrupt as they like, do what they like, follow not even an ounce of Islam and go mad because a woman has walked out of the house and a man might see her and want her. I mean it's strange and it really makes me doubt Islam because of these extreme, jumping the gun and oppressive (in some cases) responses.

Where are the kind gentle Muslim men?

I know that secular states are not the solution and in fact in some cases part of the problem, but the other extreme is seen an so many Muslims, I understand modesty, i tell my Mother to wear the Hijab any time she goes out. But I never get angry or upset at her going out, that is her right she may leave when she likes as long as it is not for a haraam purpose.

It seems women are being stopped from doing everything now except from attending to the "great practising" Muslim husband, cooking for him, taking care of the children, while the man can go out with whoever (as long as it is not Haraam), when he wants without any permission. It's absurd to me, may be I have been "influenced" by the western society i have grown up in... but i know the wrongs in this society and i always speak up against them.

I just wish Muslims were more calm and understanding in their approach, not so direct and angry seeming at everything.

(BTW i do not support the women from Saudi doing whatever she is doing in the Olympics, apart from maybe being in one of the events, as long as hijab is kept).

well it is not okay for men as well

[adolfadsermens]

No one talked about "neccessity". Its about permissibility. The hadiths are enough evidence. I can't help your literalist appraoch of expecting a statement "women are allowed to play so and so in so and so place at sso and so time". No proofs are obtained tht way. A general eevidence is enough and it is onus upon you to come and provide evidence for your prohibitions. No one gave you the right to declare something haraam, as far as i know. And even in the principle of bidah, everyone across the sectarian board admits that in matters not related to worship, everything is permissible until proven forbidden. If there is any onus existing its about you for your holier than thou appraoch expecting all Muslims to be ascetic saints and for declaring things as haram by your personal desire.

What evidence do the hadiths suggest? Which hadith is to be used as evidence for women participating in sporting events? Please provide your evidence. On the contrary the hadiths are replete and the kutub of the fuqaha are replete with evidence stating that a lady is an object of concealment. Even her voice is awrah! Never mind competing in sporting events.

I am again requesting you to provide evidence from the sources of the Shariah to state that women are allowed to participate in sporting events? There were major sporting events held by the kuffaar and were these adopted by the Muslims? The Romans and the Persians would hold regular entertainment? Were any forms of these entertainments adopted by the Sahaabah or the Fuqaha??

You need to provide evidence that gives permissiblity for the khurooj of women to attend sporting events? Is attending a sporting event a necessity in the Shariah as you must be aware that the Shariah has limited women's khurooj to dire necessity. You must also be aware of the conditions for women's khurooj even if it is due to dire necessity. Please read the fiqh kutub for a more thorough understanding instead of providing baatil justification.

[Zebrabitch]

What evidence do the hadiths suggest? Which hadith is to be used as evidence for women participating in sporting events? Please provide your evidence.

Already mentioned them enough. I can't repeat myself. Ill add one more to that, the prophet peace be upon him on a journey with his wife Aisha (rad.) played running race with her in a joking manner.

And as mentioned, the absence of evidence does not anyway prove your point. The default is permissible.

Moreover, out of curiosity, do you think a garden is prohibited in islam? Are parks for relaxtion prohibited in islam? Is a beach prohibited in islam?

On the contrary the hadiths are replete and the kutub of the fuqaha are replete with evidence stating that a lady is an object of concealment. Even her voice is awrah! Never mind competing in sporting events. You should read what i wrote previously. No where did I argue against hijab. The point is on providing alternate halal sports, which obviously implies that the hijab rules would be followed.


I am again requesting you to provide evidence from the sources of the Shariah to state that women are allowed to participate in sporting events? There were major sporting events held by the kuffaar and were these adopted by the Muslims? The Romans and the Persians would hold regular entertainment? Were any forms of these entertainments adopted by the Sahaabah or the Fuqaha?? The burden of evidence falls upon you. And the proofs existing of horse racing being permitted is enough evidence as horse racing is a major game of arab culture. No need to search proofs else where when proofs from arab culture itself is existant. Your complete taboo mindset is what requires proof.

You need to provide evidence that gives permissiblity for the khurooj of women to attend sporting events? Is attending a sporting event a necessity in the Shariah as you must be aware that the Shariah has limited women's khurooj to dire necessity. You must also be aware of the conditions for women's khurooj even if it is due to dire necessity. Please read the fiqh kutub for a more thorough understanding instead of providing baatil justification.

No one talks about necessity here. Its about permissibility. The restriction of "dire necessity" has its own reasons behind it. When that reason fails then it does not apply. For example the argument of "blocking the means to fitna" would not apply when such possibility of fitna does not exist or rare. That's why I said is today's time the Islamic government should provide halals venues for women where they can socialise, relax, exercise, compete and whatever from the beauties of halal living. If you find this objectionable, then you should even object to a women going to her parents's house except for dire neccessity whatever you understand by it.

And since you have mentioned about the strictness you have in following the prophet and salaf, I ask you,why dont you survive your day with eating barely a date, as the prophet did ? Why dont you live in houses as poor as the prophet did ? Why don't you sleep on a bed made of straw leaves ?

[adolfadsermens]

Assalamu Alaykum

Which hadiths have you mentioned that allow for women only sporting events? How many women were involved in the hadiths you have mentioned that has allowed you to make a general rule of permissiblity????????? You have failed to mention even after repeated requests to give ONE ruling from the fuqaha providing this permissiblity.

You are giving absolutely baatil justification for your views. Rasulullah racing with Hadhrat Aa'isha in no shape or form provides justification for women only sporting events! A man on his own with his wife with all the laws of Hijaab being maintained may do whatever they want with each other. What a husband (within Shar'i limits) does with his wife has nothing to do with providing sporting avenues en masse for women. Was this hadith used ever by any of the Fuqaha to provide relaxation services for the Muslim women?? Or is it only the Muslim woemn of this age of fitnah and fasaad that require such relaxation!!??

I again ask you to provide evidence of sporting facilities for women being provided in ANY era of Islamic rule from the time of Rasulullah Nevermind for women even for men participation in sport for entertainment is reprehensible. You have been provided with evidence. You are ignoring them.

I also do not understand your reasoning by stating that 'blocking the means to fitnah' does not apply when there is no fitnah or the fitnah is rare. The whole point of 'blocking the means to fitnah' is to stop something before it becomes a fitnah!! The fitnah is not there it is pre-empted and destroyed!!

Islam cannot be divorced from Taqwa. Taqwa is Islam.

You mention horse racing as the part of Arab culture that Rasulullah maintained. Please expound as to what part of the arab culture did Rasulullah maintain whilst horse racing other than preparing the horses and the sahaabah for the cause of fee sabilillah?? The horses and the sahaabah were being prepared to destroy the Arab culture that was in total conflict with Islam!!!!!

You mention that I should adhere to eating one date a day as this is what Rasulullah had done. Please provide evidence for your claim that I must adhere to this from the Fuqaha. Did Rasulullah , the sahaabah or the Fuqaha forbid the Muslim from consuming more than one date a day??? However, we find the Fuqaha placing many barriers and fatawaa of hurmat on the khurooj of women. Visiting the parent's house is permissible in the Shariah and even this is, if the laws of khurooj are respected.

Today's mindset has been so pervaded by Western thought and culture that it is impossible for people to recognise the inherent statements of kufr being propagated. May Allah save us all from this type of mindset.

You do not need a state to provide facilities. A lady can become super fit in her own home environment without the need to emulate the Western masters!

I have not even touched on the subject of Tashabbuh bil kuffaar which also applies to this scenario.

May He forgive our shortcomings.

25:63 And the servants of ((Allah)) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!";

[Zebrabitch]

Say, "Who has forbidden the adornment of Allah which He has produced for His servants and the good things of provision?" Quran 7:32

Say, [O Muhammad], "Bring forward your witnesses who will testify that Allah has prohibited this."*Quran 6:150


And hey, you would be quite happier if you strap your women onto a pillar of your house since the hadith prophecies such would be done to protect the women from dajjal. Good luck with your fiqh.

[adolfadsermens]

Maybe you are practising for a sporting event called mental gymnastics!!! Has it been included in London 2012?

Which tafsir can you provide that this aayah can be used for female sporting events???? This aayah is related to Food and Dress meaning that you can eat more than one date a day such as Rasulullah use to love mutton and tharid etc.... Do not forget that it is against the sunnah to overeat. Ummul Mu'mineen Aaisha termed this as a bidah! When this is termed as a bidah never mind womens' sporting events!

May Allah Ta'ala save us from baatil ta'wil.


18:103 Say: "Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds?-
18:104 "Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?"

[Zebrabitch]

Dhahirism itself is a bidah rejected by ahlus sunnah. That's why you have poor understanding of proofs.

[adolfadsermens]

A greater bidah is to make permissiblity for your whims and desires.

Maybe then the label of 'dhahirism' should also be placed on the Fuqaha accoridng to your warped understanding.

Brother, we are finished here. There is no khayr in such puerile argumentation that you are coming up with.

[MyLeva]

asalaaamsww

inshallah will be held sometime in near future http://www.masjidequba.org.uk/events...ts-recreation/ (im sure some of the issues on this thread will be covered on the course)

[DoctorNelsonOnten]

This is why you have so many obese Arabs. Sports should be encouraged. GoodLife Fitness has womens-only facilities in Toronto and I remember seeing niqabi sisters going there with big duffel bags.

I mean, if you really like keeping your women fat and overweight, thats weird. Aisha (radiallahu anha) would compete with the Prophet (salallahu alayhi wasalam) in races. So why can't sisters get some exercise?

[xyznicks]

SubhanAllah br. Dawud Israel you are comparing RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam's race with his wife a young and innocent Aiysha RadiAllahu Anha (Ummul Momineen) to that of the women and men of this era, that's so sad.

Salaams.