How come so many jews with such little overall population do amazing work?
 

Assalaamu'alaikum wr wb,

During my study, every other day I find some great discovery, technical genius, breakthrough innovations, CEOs, Game-changing businessmen, Movie Directors par excellence etc belonging to this community. Any reason, any historical trend, community level traits or other unknown things that make them so? just wondering if someone knew anything on this matter?

PS: Kindly stick to the topic if you can. I am just genuinely curious if there are any reasons or thought-chains in this matter and have no stupid intention of glorifying them. I know that this is one of the worst communities in terms of their behavior towards maligning and hurting muslims and islam.

1. This dominance of Israel is not even a century old. Also when Muslims turn away from deen, Allah Ta'ala snatches success from us and gives it to others.


During my study, every other day I find some great discovery, technical genius, breakthrough innovations, CEOs, Game-changing businessmen, Movie Directors par excellence etc belonging to this community. Any reason, any historical trend, community level traits or other unknown things that make them so? just wondering if someone knew anything on this matter? 2. There are a lot of discrepancies in the historical facts of inventions and discoveries. Our text books are really biased, if we look at non-biased books we might be able to find the pioneers are not necessarily Jews or people from the west. A lot of the discoveries during the time of colonization were stolen from the colonies and put up in the ruling nations names. Its a widely known fact. Remember history is written by the Victors.

3. But one cannot deny the fact at present, most of the scientific discoveries comes from a particular group of people. Its because they are ahead of the rest of the nations in 'infrastructure'. Also they have infiltrated every economy in the world with the help of 'world bank'. Most of the other nations are 'happy' to just buy technology from the U.s. or israel.


P.s. For a Muslim, success is not defined by materialistic gains.

When our imaan went weak, Allah allowed them non muslims to gain victory over us

We used to be great at discoveries and science and development also

Jews take pride in their "Homeland", work hard for their community, and utilise a lot of skills in banking, economics, engineering, politics etc

the muslims are currently the complete opposite of this

inshAllah if we take pride in our homeland, support the muslim nations (except those who are beyond help such as uzbekistan, syria etc where removing the tyrant is the only option), and if we all work hard in our fields and devote our work to Allah SWT rather than worldly gain, and if we work hard on Islamic revival, and if we strive hard to gain strength in science, engineering, economics etc, inshAllah we can become as powerful or more powerful than them. There is 1 jew for every 100 muslims so only 1% of our ummah needs to be strong practicing muslims with success in various fields in order to become as powerful as them inshAllah

P.s. For a Muslim, success is not defined by materialistic gains. jazaakAllahu khaira for the reminder and the contribution, bro. True, these are definitely materialistic things and not to be misunderstood as a measure of success or greatness anywhere. Nevertheless, from a purely materialistic achievement point-of-view, it is surely not easy, particularly in a very competitive, fast-paced world. I have recently acquired this habit of finding the religious background of some of the innovations/materialistic-achievements/success-stories we get to read and it got me surprising and curious to the extent of ending up posting this, that so many of them belonged to this group.

This community takes credit 'only' on account of their funding such researches. The fund is theirs, the innovation, idea or thought may not be

I understand your curiosity. Don't forget that even if someone works hard or not, all these materialistic success come form Allah the almighty alone. His/her success is NOT because he/she worked hard, its the Mercy of Allah Ta'ala(but that does not justify us not working for it-refer the hadith of tying the camel) . Also when Muslims turn away from Islam, success is given to others. Sometimes even if we are good Muslims, success in this world is given to the disbelievers.

Its answered by Allah Ta'ala in the Quran.

1. "So let not their (disbelievers and hypocrites) wealth or their children amaze you; in reality Allâh’s Plan is to punish them with these things in the life of the this world, and that their souls shall depart (die) while they are disbelievers." (Qur’an 9:55)

So its imminent that the non-muslims will be successful in this world, because its a test for us Muslims. So that we understand Dunya is theirs and Akhirah is ours.

2. "And certainly, We shall test you with something of fear, hunger, loss of wealth, lives and fruits, but give glad tidings to As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.)." (Al Baqarah: 155)

This ayah is clear cut on us being tested in materialistic things and Allah is with those who is patient.

May Allah make us from the Sabireen. ameen.

we shoudl remember taht we DO need to work hard in the dunya, we have been commanded to PREPARE, especially as we are being invaded, muslim lands should have strong defences and taht invovles science and technology

Bro, the above aayah, Mufti taqi usmani sab damat barkaatuhum has translated in this manner:

[9:55]
So, their wealth and their children should not attract you. In fact, Allah intends to punish them with these in this lowly life and that their souls should depart while they are disbelievers.

Bro, I intended to use the word "amaze" in terms of intrigue, not admiration/reverence for it, though I will readily accept I might have had that as well, as a result of my uncultured nafs. Also I do not mean to compare ourselves with them or anything of that sort bro. Its just a non-serious curiosity towards historical, community level traits or anything deeper that is playing any part, at the apparent level.

Nevertheless, I would also like to ask, is it wrong to be curious about the tadbeer, sabab (means) part of anything? Of course, Allah swt's decree is what makes anything and everything happen> It is a given and its the overruling thing, which should be beyond an iota of doubt - but for gaining insight into any issue, if we just resign ourselves to saying it is what Maalik swt has ordained (which is a given, basic truth), we wont have any lessons or insights to gather.

After all, to go on a slight tangent, it is a question of what asbaab (means or efforts) or tadbeer we adopted, within the ekhtiyaaraat (volition, zone of control) we have been given, that we are accountable for.

Also, I agree, the frames-of-reference of leading a life, motivating factors and intention towards anything for muslims and non-muslims are entirely different and contrasting, but is it wrong to observe any trends and take some insights from it for ourselves? (though in this case its more of curiosity than try to gather any inspiration).

Kindly correct me if I am doing mistakes in what I am saying, bro...its been some time since I am getting any pious maahol or efforts of deen due to my constraints and the dirt in my fikr might have gone to abhorrent levels.

The translation I posted was Sahih International. I referred Ma'ariful Quran and it has 'attract you' as translation. I shall post the commentary of that particular verse here:

Hypo wealth.jpg
World to come.


sorry i ve added the last line as text.


P.s. This is not saying Muslims shouldn't work hard in Dunya, its just that non-muslims success aren't 'success' in reality.

I think it may come down to how you define "Jews" and "overall population". If you're referring to the population of Israel, then without meaning to be rude, I don't think they do "amazing work" any more than any other nation of it's size.

If you mean prolific and famous Jews outside of Israel, then it's worth considering that they may often be labled as Jews by the media due to family heritage, but not actually be Jewish by belief or practice. I think that's the case with a lot of the most prolific examples.

I don't know what people think about whether that makes them Jewish, but to me, a person's religion its defined by what they truly believe in, not what family they come from. If they don't read the Torah or go to synagogue, are they really Jewish?

Yeah, I was predominantly referring to US based jews...though I am not aware of their being "practicing" in their religion, I am sure a lot of them are pretty active in promoting the causes of jews and israel...through chance I had ended up cross-referencing some jewish news sources which were praising their influential people across the world who regularly visit and contribute to israel and quite a lot of them were there...

nevertheless, the curiosity is about the influences, causes etc...if at all its worth discussing

I think it has more to do with Zionism than judaism.

True, for me, sometimes every occurrence at the world stage, economic, political etc., ends up looking like related to zionism..I have heard an elder of mine say that Hazat Hussain Ahmed Madani Rah said something like...jab hauz mein machhli ke andaaz bhi badalne lagtey hain to mujhe uske peeche yahoodi ki saazish nazar aati hai...(even when a fish in tank moves erratically, I feel there is a jew involved)...and hazatji yusuf sab rah said...koi bhi baatil ko agar dekhoge to aakhir mein ek yahoodi khada huva nazar aayega...if you see any falsehood, you will eventually find a jew standing at the end. ( I am quoting these from distant memories so I can surely be blamed for bad/not-entirely-correct reported speech..but the essence can be understood)

Anyway, I think these guys are pretty shrewd by nature...quite a few are known to employ dubious means in their ascent as well...zuckerberg of facebook, Ellison of oracle corp, even michael hammer of business process re-engineering (BPR) fame seems to have elaborated on a concept that existed under a different name (not entirely confirmed).....nevertheless, its obvious tht those guys are pretty shrewd and sharp and have done some remarkable achievements...apart from that the homeland concept also seems strong as a motivation and brings them together, though I am very less knowledgeable in this matter...there might be deeper and controversial things as well...

Yes these people are well explained in the Quran. The ulema know the behavior of Bani Israel well. They are the people who were give so much Mercy from Allah and yet they rejected the Almighty. Allah gave them numerous opportunity for forgiveness, every time they rejected. They have a history of killing prophets. No other Nation has such a history. When the Dajjal comes they will be his army. Its only a matter of time.

I don't think either of the examples you gave are of practicing Jews, nor are either of them known for their support of Israel. Yes, Zuckerberg has curly hair, a pointy nose, and Jewish ancestry, but he doesn't believe in the old testament any more than you or I.

I guess what I'm getting at is that "real Jews" (ie, Jews that actually believe in Judaism) really don't have that much power or influence. I understand that's a viewpoint that might not be widely shared, but I have yet to see examples to convince me otherwise.

If you are talking about reformist/modern orthodox Jews than yes,most of them don't practice the religion.
Even if they were atheists they still call themselves Jews,they still belong to that tradition.

Allah SWT says in the Qur'an that from among them there are good people and bad people.

I consider the good among them the real orthodox Jews(ultra-orthodox),the ones that are anti-zionist pro-Palestine,the ones that live next to us in Palestine and Lebanon.

I don't really know much about different subsets of Jews (or Muslims to be honest). I mean in very simple terms, whether they believe that the bible is the word of God, and whether they follow it. The same thing can apply to some Muslims and Christians, who proclaim their faith but don't fully believe in or follow the teachings of their religions.

Lets try a different question: Is a Muslim who doesn't follow the teachings of the Koran (sorry if I spelled that wrong) and doesn't go to mosque really a Muslim? Sorry if I'm getting of topic, but I'm interested to know what purple think on the subject.

For disclosure, the reason I'm interested in this is because my great grandmother was Jewish, and I've often despised the idea that anyone could think that means I'm Jewish. I'm not, never have been, and never will be. I don't have much of an opinion regarding the religion itself, but I view Israel's actions as a disgrace to those who support it.

Also, to back up my argument that they aren't that powerful, there is only one Jewish head of state in the world, and that's in Israel. Compare that to the numerous powerful Muslim countries. If Muslims weren't so divided, you could take over the world in a week. The only thing stopping you is all this Sunni, Sufi, Shiite, etc stuff that divides and weakens you.

fine enough bro...if not zuckerberg, there are a lot of other examples, please try some jewish newspaper websites and u will find the data online itself... anyway thats not my topic...kindly do not end up diverting the thread with deliberations on who is jewish, how many real jews left, whats their situation etc...its not easy to trust a jew whatever he says, anyway ; )..

my question or curiosity is just about jewish background and the material-success/influence rate...

http://discussworldissues.com/forums...lies/salam.gif
Another great thread by bro saalik.
http://discussworldissues.com/forums...lies/jazak.gif

http://discussworldissues.com/forums...n_thumbsup.gif and not just in terms of funding (though that is a large part of it).

Jews like to display and call attention to a lot of things they do. They like to justify everything quite loudly. All of that 'noise' inflates their presence and makes it seem like they hold the reigns to everything. Muslims are more modest and aren't calling attention to every little thing they do. We may not hear about our brothers' and sisters' accomplishments but I think it is really presumptuous to jump to the conclusion that since we aren't seen or heard as loudly as the Jews or others, we must not be doing much.

Also, Jews do business with each other to some degree; they promote (and lobby hard for) each other. Muslims, as is mentioned in various posts here, are divided so accomplishments are that much more unnoticed. Add to this events like 9/11 and Islamophobia and perhaps this too adds to the problem in that perhaps some just don't want to be singled out as Muslim - especially in the West.