[DINAKuncher]

Please Note Before Commenting: We should not be hasty in speaking against Muslim rulers without having knowledge of its permissibility, and if allowed, the proper reasons and limits in doing so. In all our actions we need to strive to act with wisdom and consider the benefit that will be achieved and whether or not it will lead to greater harm.

This thread is about a Muslim who has passed away and whatever he has done in this life, his affair is with Allaah (swt) who will just him with perfect justice and He alone knows the full details of this person's life. I do not know what we seek to achieve by mentioning such a person's sins on a forum.

Lastly, here are some questions and points to reflect over:

1. Does backbiting a Muslim ruler cause you to sin, be rewarded or neither?

2. Does backbiting a Muslim ruler benefit you in your religion? Does it make you a better Muslim, a bad Muslim or neither?

3. This is the job of scholars to decide to do so or not and when to do so as it is suitable, while laypeople (like ourselves) should observe, look for and be concerned with what will benefit us in this life and hereafter.

Saturday 16 June 2012
Jeddah: The Royal Court issued today the following statement: With deep sorrow and grief, the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz Al Saud, announced the death of his brother, Crown Prince Naif bin Abdulaziz Al Saud, Deputy Premier and Minister of Interior, who passed away on Saturday abroad. A funeral prayer will be performed for his soul at the Holy Mosque in Makkah after Maghreb (sunset) prayer on Sunday.
The Royal Court condoles the Saudi people on the deceased prince, praying to Allah Almighty to bless his soul and to reward him for his services to his religion and homeland''.

Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Nayef bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud has died "outside the kingdom", state media say.

Prince Nayef, who was also deputy prime minister and interior minister, had left the country for a holiday and medical tests late last month.

On 3 June, the deputy interior minister said the prince, who was 77 or 78, was in good health and would return "soon".

He was named crown prince in October 2011 after the death of the previous crown prince, Sultan bin Abdul Aziz.

The succession in Saudi Arabia still passes among the sons of former King Abdul Aziz ibn Saud, who established the modern kingdom during his reign from 1932 to 1953.

Next in line is expected to be Crown Prince Nayef's 76-year-old brother, Prince Salman, who was appointed defence minister in November after spending five decades as governor of Riyadh.

King Abdullah, who is 89 years old, had a back operation last year.

A statement from the king published by the official SPA news agency, said Prince Nayef had died on Saturday "outside the kingdom" and would be buried Sunday after prayers in Mecca. It gave no more details.

Unconfirmed reports said Prince Nayef had been receiving medical treatment since May at a hospital in the Swiss city of Geneva.

http://arabnews.com/crown-prince-naif-has-died

RIYADH: Saudi Crown Prince Nayef bin Abdul Aziz, a half brother of King Abdullah and the kingdom’s long-serving interior minister, died on Saturday, state television announced.

The 79-year-old Prince Nayef, who recently left Saudi Arabia for medical treatment, had “died outside the kingdom,” said Al-Ekhbariyah Television, quoting a statement from the royal court.

His funeral would be held on Sunday after sunset prayers in the Muslim holy city of Mecca, after his body is repatriated.

Powerful Nayef, who led an iron-fisted crackdown on al Qaeda following a wave of attacks in Saudi Arabia between 2003 and 2006, became heir to the throne in October last year following the death of crown prince Sultan, his full brother.

Nayef was the middle prince of the Sudairi Seven, the formidable bloc of sons of King Abdul Aziz by a favorite wife, Princess Hassa al Sudairi.

No one is officially in line to replace Nayef, but his brother Prince Salman, who took over the porfolio of defence minister after Sultan’s death, appears a strong candidate.

Prince Nayef had been abroad on several occasions this year for medical reasons, including to Algeria, the United States, and Switzerland, where he was seen a few days ago.

The nature of his illness has not been made public.

Less than two weeks ago, his brother Prince Ahmed bin Abdulaziz was quoted as saying in a Saudi daily that the crown prince was in “good health” and that he would “soon” return to the kingdom.

On May 26, state news agency SPA said Prince Nayef had left the country for medical tests abroad for the second time in less than three months, without naming the destination.

In March, the royal palace said he went to Algeria on holiday after the results of medical tests he underwent in the US city of Cleveland were reported as “reassuring.”

He returned to Saudi Arabia from Algeria on April 10.

The advanced age and failing health of the king and of his half-brothers in line to succeed him have raised concerns about the future of the oil giant in the face of the turmoil rocking the Arab world.

[soprofaxel]

Innanilahi Rajioon.

I am not saddend or happy! I think my sentiment about saudi ruling elite is clear.

[Tribas4u]

Assalamu alaykum

Allah SWT marhoom ki magfirath farmaaye. Unke deni khidmaath ko qubool farmaaye.

[KeettyGlots]

Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'oon.

[bactrimtab]

inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'oon

this is sad news as some had hoped he was more islamic then the alternatives to take the throne after king abdullah.

Quite suspicious to be honest, i wudnt put it past the kuffar to finish him off in order to get a liberal as the next in line

[ffdfriendforurr]

inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'oon

this is sad news as some had hoped he was more islamic then the alternatives to take the throne after king abdullah.

Quite suspicious to be honest, i wudnt put it past the kuffar to finish him off in order to get a liberal as the next in line

I doubt it, he was 77 and overweight and diabetic.

[bactrimtab]

I doubt it, he was 77 and overweight and diabetic.

allahu a'lam.

Btw, did u guys realise that all the rulers in saudi are children of king abdal azeez? So its brother after brother on the throne. When the last brother dies, cud be big fitnah.

The hadeeth says mahdi alayhi salaam comes out when there is a dispute over leadership so allahu a'lam i thought this might be possible

[AmfitNom]

If Kings and princes with vast wealth die what use is there in accumulating this wealth and tying ones heart to it.

allahu a'lam.

Btw, did u guys realise that all the rulers in saudi are children of king abdal azeez? So its brother after brother on the throne. When the last brother dies, cud be big fitnah.

The hadeeth says mahdi alayhi salaam comes out when there is a dispute over leadership so allahu a'lam i thought this might be possible

[bactrimtab]

true, but to be fair, saudi gets bad press, but its actually the most chartitable country on earth statistically, and gives massive amounts in asia, africa etc.

Like some pakistanis, and some european muslims, and some indonesians, some saudis fall prey to the shaitaan and lap up the dunya and forget the akhirah

[bactrimtab]

bro are u saying ur in favour of secularism?

You make too many generlisations. Many beautiful from saudi aswell as other nations too. Talking about deen isnt bad thing.

I dont think saudi is about to collapse any time soon, lots of strong muslims in saudi,see how people reacted to the tweeter who posted blastphemy?

[TeftyJokip]

Saudi culture has more to do with tribal tradition.
As for chartible cause - sending lamadhabist publication is not helping the poor or needy. The assistane has to bear tangible facility. In Saudia there are a lot of poor people and yet nothing is done to alliviate the desparity. Ofcourse there are people who are charitable but as a state, it is dissfunctional and no country should follow it. If they are serious they would help the likes of Muslim aid, UWT and that types of organsation with proven track record and no agenda attached.
Allahualam

Assalamu Alaikum,
Innalillaahi wainna Ilaihi Rajioon

Brother Nomadic you are too much judgemental, you should be little polite. Saudi arabia is a blessed land, no second thought. I am sorry if i have hurt you, but i thought if you would take it in positive sense, it will be good. Inshallaah

[DINAKuncher]

Original Post Updated

[DINAKuncher]

Saudi Crown Prince Nayef Dies; Led Crackdown on Al Qaeda

Jamal Nasrallah/European Pressphoto Agency
Crown Prince Nayef bin Abdul Aziz in 2008.
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: June 17, 2012
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - Crown Prince Nayef bin Abdul Aziz, the hard-line interior minister who spearheaded Saudi Arabia's crackdown of Al Qaeda in the kingdom after the Sept. 11 attacks and then rose to become next in line to the throne, has died. He was in his late 70s.

A statement by the royal family said Prince Nayef died Saturday in a hospital abroad. It did not specify where. Prince Nayef had been out of the country since late May, when he went on a trip that was described as a "personal vacation" that would include medical tests. He traveled abroad frequently in recent years for tests, but the authorities never reported what ailments he may have been suffering from.

His death reopens the question of succession in this crucial American ally and oil powerhouse for the second time in less than a year. The 88-year-old King Abdullah has now outlived two designated successors, despite ailments of his own. Now a new crown prince must be chosen from among his brothers and half-brothers, all the sons of Saudi Arabia's founder, Abdul-Aziz.

The figure believed most likely to be tapped as the new heir is Prince Salman, the defense minister who served for decades in the powerful post of governor of Riyadh, the capital. The crown prince will be chosen by the Allegiance Council, an assembly of Abdul-Aziz's sons and some of his grandchildren.

Prince Nayef was known as a hard-liner and a conservative. He was believed to be closer than many of his brothers to the powerful Wahhabi religious establishment that gives legitimacy to the royal family, and he at times worked to give a freer hand to the religious police who enforce strict social rules.

His elevation to crown prince in November 2011, after the death of his brother, Prince Sultan bin Abdel Aziz, had raised worries among liberals that, if he ever became king, he would halt or even roll back reforms that King Abdullah had enacted.

Soon after becoming crown prince, Prince Nayef vowed that Saudi Arabia would "never sway from and never compromise on" its adherence to the puritanical, ultraconservative Wahhabi doctrine. The ideology, he proclaimed "is the source of the kingdom's pride, success and progress."

Prince Nayef had expressed reservations about some of the changes by King Abdullah, who made incremental steps to bring more democracy to the kingdom and increase women's rights. Prince Nayef said he saw no need for elections or for women to sit on the Shura Council, an unelected advisory body to the king that is the closest thing to a parliament.

His top concern was security in the kingdom and maintaining a fierce bulwark against Shiite powerhouse, Iran, according to American Embassy assessments of Prince Nayef.

"A firm authoritarian at heart," was the description of him in a 2009 Embassy report leaked by the whistle-blower Web site WikiLeaks.

Prince Nayef, a soft-spoken, stocky man of medium build, was born in 1933, the 23rd son of Abdul-Aziz, the family patriarch who founded the kingdom in 1932 and had dozens of sons by various wives.

Prince Nayef was one of the five surviving members of the Sudairi seven, sons of Abdul-Aziz from his wife Hussa bint Ahmad Sudairi who, for decades, have held influential posts. That makes him a half-brother of King Abdullah. Before being appointed interior minister, he held the posts of Riyadh governor, deputy minister of interior and minister of state for internal affairs.

Prince Nayef has 10 children from several wives.

He built his power though his fierce crackdown against Al Qaeda branch after the Sept. 11 attacks and a broader campaign to prevent the growth of Islamic militancy among Saudis.

The Sept. 11 attacks at first strained ties between the kingdom and the United States. For months, the kingdom refused to acknowledge that any of its citizens were involved in the suicide airline bombings, until finally Prince Nayef became the first Saudi official to publicly confirm that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis in a February 2002 interview with The Associated Press.

In November 2002, Prince Nayef told the Arabic-language Kuwaiti daily Assyasah that Jews were behind the Sept. 11 attacks because they have benefited from subsequent criticism of Islam and Arabs. He came under heavy criticism in the United States, especially because he was the man in charge of Saudi investigations into the attack. Criticism grew in the United States that the Saudis were not doing enough to stem extremism in their country or combat Al Qaeda.

In mid-2003, Islamic militants struck inside the kingdom, targeting three residential expatriate compounds - the first of a string of assaults that later hit government buildings, the American Consulate in Jiddah and the perimeter of the world's largest oil processing facility in Abqaiq. Al Qaeda's branch announced its aim to overthrow the royal family.

The attacks galvanized the government into serious action against the militants, an effort spearheaded by Prince Nayef. Over the next years, dozens of attacks were foiled, hundreds of militants were rounded up and killed.

By 2008, it was believed that Al Qaeda's branch was largely broken in the country. Militant leaders who survived or were not jailed largely fled to Yemen, where they joined Yemeni militants in reviving Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

Prince Nayef took a leading role in combating the branch in Yemen as well. The cooperation against Al Qaeda both in the kingdom and in Yemen significantly bolstered ties with the United States.

The anti-militant campaign also strengthened Prince Nayef's ties to the religious establishment, which he saw as a major tool in keeping stability and preventing the spread of violent Qaeda-style "jihadi" theology.

The Wahhabi ideology that is the official law in Saudi Arabia is deeply conservative - including strict segregation of the sexes, capital punishments, like beheadings, and enforced prayer times - but it also advocated against Al Qaeda's calls for holy war against leaders seen as infidels.

Prince Nayef's Interior Ministry allied with clerics in a "rehabilitation" program for detained militants, who went through intensive courses with clerics in "correct" Islam to sway them away from violence. The program brought praise from the United States.

He never clashed with King Abdullah over changes or made efforts to stop them - such a step would be unthinkable in the tight-knit royal family, whose members work hard to keep differences under wraps and ultimately defer to the king. But Prince Nayef was long seen as more favorable to the Wahhabi establishment. In 2009, he shut down a film festival in the Red Sea port city of Jiddah, apparently because of conservatives' worry about the possibility of gender mixing in theaters and a general distaste toward film as immoral.

[8Zgkdeee]

true, but to be fair, saudi gets bad press, but its actually the most chartitable country on earth statistically, and gives massive amounts in asia, africa etc.

Like some pakistanis, and some european muslims, and some indonesians, some saudis fall prey to the shaitaan and lap up the dunya and forget the akhirah

really?

I would be more than happy to see the data and statistics from say their own version od Ministry for International development

shukran

[soprofaxel]

Saudia is a blessed land!!! Please tell me where you got this from!
If it wasn't for Rasullah SAW and Makka mukramma and madian munuwarrah. People would not go there.

[bactrimtab]

really?

I would be more than happy to see the data and statistics from say their own version od Ministry for International development

shukran

im on my mobile phone at the moment so cant copy and paste anything but i will definitely get that info from u.

Have a search on google though, look at saudi charity or something, they have massive projects all over the world, giving billions for schools, mosques, hospitals, orphanages, disaster relief etc.

Off the top of my head, haiti got 50million after the earthquake, bangaldesh got nearly 200million after the floods, malawi got an orphanage along with a saudi princess who went there to run it, pakistan has loads of hospitals and the list goes on

they do much charity aswell as the well known funding of mosques, books, bursaries to study islam, they pay for reverts to do hajj, they pay for thousands of students every year to come study islam and then go home for dawah, thanks to them many revert brothers got to do hajj and got to study islam, their universities have students in over 180 countries, thats nearly every country on the planet, of course i understand u guys wont appreciate this lasty paragraph so much though. They also mass produce millions upon millions of qur'ans at the king fahd complex.

They have also massively developed saudi mashallah and built it into an up and coming nation.

I really dont see any other muslim nation do so much for islam, regardless of peoples dislike of salafi leanings, i dont get offers from pakistan government for me to come there and study islam, pay for my hajj, provide me with free books to start my journey into islam, big beautiful masjids for me to visit, nor do i get offers for any such support from any other community of muslims, so rather than pointint fingers perhaps people shud appreciate saudi does do some khair and they shud compete to do more khair inshallah

[8Zgkdeee]

im on my mobile phone at the moment so cant copy and paste anything but i will definitely get that info from u.

Have a search on google though, look at saudi charity or something, they have massive projects all over the world, giving billions for schools, mosques, hospitals, orphanages, disaster relief etc.

Off the top of my head, haiti got 50million after the earthquake, bangaldesh got nearly 200million after the floods, malawi got an orphanage along with a saudi princess who went there to run it, pakistan has loads of hospitals and the list goes on

they do much charity aswell as the well known funding of mosques, books, bursaries to study islam, they pay for reverts to do hajj, they pay for thousands of students every year to come study islam and then go home for dawah, thanks to them many revert brothers got to do hajj and got to study islam, their universities have students in over 180 countries, thats nearly every country on the planet, of course i understand u guys wont appreciate this lasty paragraph so much though

Thats why when you mentioned statistically, I was curious at to know which ministry does that and where the statistics are

I wont google. I shall wait for the links from you on.

If it were UK I know I would have gone straight to DFID website and seen all the reports on how much UK gives to developing countries and which projects they have funded across the world

In that case Insha Allah I will wait for your sources showing KSA as per your statement: ''THE MOST CHARITABLE COUNTRY ON EARTH''

[bactrimtab]

Thats why when you mentioned statistically, I was curious at to know which ministry does that and where the statistics are

I wont google. I shall wait for the links from you on.

If it were UK I know I would have gone straight to DFID website and seen all the reports on how much UK gives to developing countries and which projects they have funded across the world

In that case Insha Allah I will wait for your sources showing KSA as per your statement: ''THE MOST CHARITABLE COUNTRY ON EARTH''

just go to wiki and type saudi foreign assistance. It will give u the references.

It will probabily say saudi is second after usa but thats including things like the $1.5billion that america gave to husni mubarak every year in military aid so i dont really think that can count as charity. America also uses their foreign aid as a weapon, such as giving yemen food aid and then taking it away if they dont toe the line, also they do the same with pakistan. So technically only america is ahead of saudi but saudi dont use their charity as blackmail or use it to buy weaponry, it goes on hospitals, disaster relief, orphanages etc.

I kniw this may hurt some people but saudi actually does a lot of good, very few muslim nations come close, which is why i shake my head when people mention saudi negatively more than all other muslim nations combined

but alhamdulillah allah protects them

[Tribas4u]

(Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's Defence Minister Prince Salman bin Abdulaziz, seen as more moderate than his hawkish brother Crown Prince Nayef who died on Saturday, is likely to be anointed heir to the throne of the world's top oil exporter.

Although the choice of a new crown prince must be confirmed by a family allegiance council, analysts said it would be highly surprising if Salman, now 76, was passed over.

"The most obvious candidate is Prince Salman," said Saudi politics professor Khalid al-Dakhil.

If appointed, he is likely to shoulder much of the burden of state immediately, given that King Abdullah is already 89.

An imposing figure, Salman controls one of the Arab world's largest media groups.

He believes that democracy is ill-suited to the conservative kingdom and advocates a cautious approach to social and cultural reform, according to a 2007 U.S. diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks.

A familiar figure to the kingdom's top ally - the United States - he is someone with whom Washington would be comfortable doing business.

"It appeared to me he had a good handle on the delicate balancing act he had to do to move society forward while being respectful of its traditions and conservative ways," said Robert Jordan who was U.S. ambassador in Riyadh from 2001-03.

"He doesn't blindly accept everything the United States says, but at the same time he understands the importance of the relationship, which goes beyond oil," Jordan added.

After nearly 50 years as governor of Riyadh province, Prince Salman now controls the big-spending Defence Ministry.

The ministry has long used arms purchases to turn the Saudi armed forces into one of the best equipped in the Middle East and to bolster ties with allies such as the United States, Britain and France.

Since being named defence minister last year, he has been to both Washington and London, meeting President Barack Obama and Prime Minister David Cameron.

A family insider, Salman has been part of the inner circle of the al-Saud ruling family, which founded and still dominates the desert kingdom in alliance with conservative religious clerics, for decades.

In a royal family that bases its right to rule on its guardianship of Islam's holiest sites in Mecca and Medina, Salman is reputed to be devout but relatively outward-looking.

"He's not extravagant, whether in his personal life or professionally," said Khaled Almaeena, editor-in-chief of Saudi Gazette, who has known Salman personally for more than three decades.

"He's not a spendthrift and makes sure public money is spent well on projects. If you go to his office he's there every morning meeting people. He has a knack of remembering people and events... He has travelled abroad a lot and is very well read and is very well versed in dealing with the tribes."

A MODERATE

From 1962 until last year, Salman served as governor of Riyadh, a position that meant he has had more to do with foreign governments than many senior royals.

That role saw him arbitrating disputes between quarreling members of the ruling family, putting him at the centre of the kingdom's most important power structure.

In a meeting with the U.S. ambassador in March 2007, described in a cable released by WikiLeaks, Salman said the social and cultural reforms instigated by King Abdullah had to move slowly for fear of a conservative backlash.

He also argued against the introduction of democracy in the kingdom, citing regional and tribal divisions, and told the ambassador that a solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict was necessary for Middle East stability.

"He is liberal in his personal life and moderate in politics, he can't be called a liberal because he holds some conservative values," said a source close to the Saudi royals.

"He is a very balanced character, so moderate is the best word to describe him," the source added.

With his strong bearded features, Salman is the prince who is said to more closely resemble his father, King Abdulaziz Ibn Saud, than any of his brothers.

Backed by a small group of followers inspired by an austere vision of Islam, Ibn Saud recaptured his family's old stronghold of Riyadh in 1902, launching a three-decade campaign of conquest that carved out the modern borders of a kingdom founded in 1932.

Salman is one of the so-called "Sudairi seven" - the brothers born to Ibn Saud by his favorite wife Hassa bint Ahmed al-Sudairi.

His full brothers in a family of more than 30 half-brothers include the late King Fahd and Crown Prince Sultan, Nayef and Prince Ahmed, the deputy interior minister.

Salman was born in 1935 in Riyadh, then a mud brick oasis deep in the interior of a new kingdom that had not yet discovered oil, depending instead on revenue from pilgrims to Mecca and Medina, date farming and camel herding.

Yet one son, Prince Sultan bin Salman, became the first Arab astronaut, flying on the U.S. space shuttle Discovery in 1985.

Prince Sultan is now the kingdom's tourism minister while another son, Prince Abdulaziz, is the deputy oil minister.

In his five decades administering Riyadh and its surroundings, Salman oversaw the development of the capital from a large desert town into a metropolis of 4.6 million people.

He was taught in the "princes' school" set up in Ibn Saud's palace by the imam of the Grand Mosque of Mecca, signaling the importance that Ibn Saud attached to the centrality of pure Islamic belief in the kingdom he created.

(Reporting by Angus McDowall; Additional reporting by Amena Bakr; Editing by Sami Aboudi, Samia Nakhoul and Andrew Osborn)

[Licacivelip]

Isn't this the guy that used to imprison and torture Muslims, Mujahideen, Ulema, etc in order to serve his masters in Washington? People are sad at his death or something?