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10-07-2009, 01:42 AM
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#21 |
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...  It is sad, but that is the way things are unfortunately happening today. Twenty years back if a Muslim man and woman who were non mahrams were openly joking with one another in public, eyebrows would be raised. Now it is such that we say well, at least they are in public and not in khalwat. |
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10-07-2009, 03:47 AM
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#22 |
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10-07-2009, 04:08 AM
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#23 |
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from what i remember hearing that the 1st nation to cut thier beards was the nation of lut (as) (because they were gays, maybe)? heard this long time ago, not sure if it has any basis?anyone?
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10-07-2009, 05:05 AM
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#24 |
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A short biography and interview in Arabic can be found here: http://al-raeed.com/preview.php?id=1872 the above link also contains a photo of the mufti.... just wondering if his beard is actually a fist-full according to the definition of fist-full of the members here? |
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10-07-2009, 06:20 AM
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#25 |
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Kurtha and and western suits are not the same!! they are not equal. kurta adhere's to the sharia but western suits do not |
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10-07-2009, 06:37 AM
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#26 |
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 I have assumed his South Asian, because overwhelming majority here are. No Big deal and nothing sinister about it I can assure you that. Why must I be the one to be called racist? just because I said Kurta & Western suits being the same?? If that is the case why don't you call these people racist too? Usama for insulting European culture and rubbishing their traditional clothes. streetwalker for saying 'Why should we bother to be influenced by Africa' You cannot get more racist than this, sadly he's blissfully unaware that his comment was indeed very very racist. Reema for saying 'Most Egyptian men are perverts' after I told her that it's wrong to say so and that it's offensive to Egyptians etc she only offered her apologies for offending and insisted that she still stood by what she said. and about topis/ caps/ Kufi/ qalansuwa? They are not even Arabic words or Arabic attire, how can you say they are 'established Sunnah' ? |
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10-07-2009, 07:58 AM
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#27 |
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Says who? |
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10-07-2009, 10:35 AM
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#28 |
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as-salamu `alaikum |
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10-07-2009, 12:24 PM
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#29 |
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If you mean this sentence It used to be that a Muslim who wore the clothes or suit identified as Western was a fasiq and possibly treasonous. Today, its normal for an alim to have a Western suit and tie in his closet. then yes, it used to be that people who wore western suits were presumed traitors and not without good reason. Collonialism was not a nice time for Muslims, when the Europeans did their best to rub the Hindustanis, Arabs, Africans etc into the dirt. Not only that, many clothes like the turban (another established sunnah) was what they would have their servants wear, degrading that attire. So if Muslims do not feel comfortable in western attire, they have all the well reason for it, even from a non Shar'ee view. As for brother streetwalker's claim, no I do not agree with it either. I myself live in Africa, so I will look at the Ulama here. That of course does not mean I will start dancing like a Zulu tribeswoman. As for sister reeha's qawl, the whole topic was about perverts in Egypt, and looking at the video provided, as well as the statistic shown will show that unfortunately she was not far from the truth. And as for the words "topis/ caps/ kufi/ qalansuwa", I purposely used the different terminology so that you will see it is not only an Indo-Pak thing, and btw, qalansuwa IS an Arabic word, in fact I first learned it in my Arabic grammar book. Just because Arabs nowadays do not wear it does not take it out of sunnah attire. The clothes the Arabs wear nowadays do not signify what is sunnah. Rasulullah  wore a topi, a turban, qamees, and an izaar/lungi.Seriously, please read up on these issues before declaring them not part of sunnah. Mufti Husain Kadodia (db), the Ameer of our forum, wrote a book called "The Crown of the Believer". I suggest you read it. |
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10-07-2009, 03:12 PM
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#30 |
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Says who? Ever heard the Hadith, "whoever imitates a nation, he is one of them."? Ever read the Qur'an verse, "Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you till you follow their millat(religion, traditions, lifestyle)." (2:120) Kurta Sharwar cover the Sattar(Private areas) modestly, suit and pants DO NOT. People go into Sajdah in Kurta sharwar are modest, people who are in sajdah in pant and suits have underwear lines showing as well as sometimes their sattar. What sister Sodoku said is right, get your facts straight first please. |
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10-07-2009, 03:23 PM
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#31 |
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  I sincerely say that I support mufti Abd al Malik Sa`di in advancing the message of Islam and establishing the Sunnah. May Allah give him success in these matters. And may Allah guide him in leading the people of Iraq in the cause of Allah (SWT). And may the Sunnah of the Rasulullah (saaw) and the Deenul Islam be supreme in the world. In my previous posts, I was commenting, and venting, on much more than what the mufti said and undeservedly attacked the mufti, and . From the links provided, the mufti merely mentioned a few things about shaving the beard are the practice of the effeminate and gay men. More importantly, apparently the originator of this thread tried to take the comment by the mufti which apparently was merely his answer to a simple question and make it more than it was. However the mufti answered the question, the matter of the beard today is much more than just one opinion. So there are differing opinions on the beard: Tabi`i `Ata' ibn Abi Rabah said: "There is no harm in trimming a little from the length and sides of his beard, if it grows large and long" and al-Nakh`i, another Tabi`i, related that the Companions used to trim their beards on the sides. In his commentary on Sahih al-Bukhari, the great Hanafi hadith Imam Badr al-Din al-'Ayni says: If one objects: "What does 'leave beards be' mean, when 'to leave be' (al-i`fa') literally means 'to make plenteous,' and there are people, who, if they were to leave their beard, following the outward sense of leave beards be, their beard would become outrageous in length and width, and look disgusting, so that the person would become a topic of conversation, or a proverb" - The reply is that it is established from the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) that this hadith is conditioned by a specific context [i.e. the demand to do the contrary to what the Persians and non-Arabs did, established by the first words of the hadith], and that the amount and definition of the beard that is unlawful to leave uncut have been differed upon by the early Muslims... The meaning, in my opinion, is "as long as it does not exceed what is customary among [religious] people." `Ata' [ibn Abi Rabah, Mufti of Mecca, d. 114/732), has said, "There is no harm in trimming a little from the length and sides of his beard, if it grows large and long, in order to avoid notoriety, or if one risks being made fun of" ('Umdat al-qari sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, 20 vols. Cairo: Mustafa Babi al-Halabi, 1392/1972, 18.76) While I dont agree with Kabbani on many matters, this explanation of the hukm of growing, trimming, and cutting the beard is fairly sound as presented by Nuh Keller given that there are differing opinions on the matter among the ulama and the tabiin. "To summarize, to have a beard is obligatory for the Muslim man. The wording of the above sahih hadith indicates it should be abundant, though this is conditioned by the `urf or common acknowledgement for it among religious, practicing Muslims. The early Muslims trimmed their beards, and there is not an unequivocal text (nass) that establishes a fixed legal limit to length and size. While the sunna is considered by many ulama to be "the handful," my own sheikhs trimmed their beards considerably closer than this, and they were ulama. It is my conviction and the premise of my approach to Islamic law that Allah will not punish the ordinary Muslim for something differed about between traditional ulama. These considerations are particularly relevant to the circumstance that Islam has now spread to virtually every race on earth, and that genetically, not man can grow a beard like Ibn `Umar's. In my view, the differing capacities make preferable the more general fiqh criteria of (1) having a beard, (2) "abundance" according to one's capacity, so it doesn't look like the shaving of the non-Muslims, (3) and well-keptness that accords with the general Islamic standards of beauty (among people who are practicing Muslims) and avoidance of notoriety -- rather than a certain mandatory length. And Allah knows best. http://www.themodernreligion.com/mis...ing-beard.html " This is another representation on the matter from the Shafii madhab: Is it haram to shave the beard? Imam al-Shafi‘i is reported to have said that shaving the beard is forbidden (haram). This is not, however, the position taken by the Shafi‘i school.[1] The soundest position in the Shafi‘i school is that shaving the beard is disliked (makruh) and not forbidden (haram). This is the position of all the important figures in the late Shafi‘i school, such as Ibn Hajar al-Haytami, Muhammad al-Ramli, al-Khatib al-Shirbini, and Shaykh al-Islam Zakariyya al-Ansari (Allah be pleased with all of them). (I‘anatu’l-Talibin, 2.341). Ibn Hajar has mentioned that this was the position of both Imam Nawawi and Imam Rafi‘i (Hashiyat Shirwani, 9.376). Imam Nawawi explicitly mentions that it is disliked to shave the beard in his commentary on Sahih Muslim and also in his Rawdat al-Talibin. Anyone familiar with the works of the school will realize that the agreement of all these scholars seals the case as far as the position of the school is concerned. http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=1572&CATE=389 The matter which I am most frustrated about was that all authority: governing, legal, moral, religious, should reside with the Allah and His Messenger (saaw). However, today the Muslim Ummah has allowed authority on many issues to be removed from Allah and His Messenger (saaw). The kamees being replaced by the suit is a result of Western colonialism and intrusion so that now wearing a suit is NOT a sign of treason today. Its a custom/ urf in many Muslim lands. It was once when the colonizers directly ruled over us. The matter of the beard is much more complex today. Many Muslim militaries forbid Muslim soldiers from wearing beards, such as Tunisia, Turkey, and others. Moreover, the Kemalist govt intentionally discriminated against Muslims with beards as a way of repressing and denigrating the Sunnah much like they forbid the hijab. As well, many Muslim youth have been raised to think that they have to shave in order to have jobs, careers, professions, and the beard is for elderly retired men, or ulama who otherwise reside in the masjidn and don't partake in daily business life. And even many people in the lands of the Shafii madhab shave or have very closely cut beards under these assumptions and influences. So the one who deduces that since effeminate and gay men shave their beards, and there are Muslims who shave their beards, therefore those Muslims who shave their beards are gay or effeminate would be soarly mistaken because there are multiple factors involved in this matter, including that entire nations- secularized and repressed by brutal secular powers- that have made wearing beards criminal offenses or a cause for extreme prejudice. So the Sunnah is severely repressed there, or these matters are minimized in the societies and the cause of Islam is repressed and ulama have been, or have accepted, a trivialized and minimalized role in the entire society allowing generations to be robbed of the flowers and blessings of the Deen of Allah (SWT). This is what Im concerned about regarding the original post here- that there's more to the story than simply sticking a label on Muslim people by the appearance of their personal practices. Perhaps the orginal poster may have had some message to say by quoting the mufti of Iraq regarding men who shave their beards. I don't know. Personally, I support growing the beard and letting it grow and I support those who support the Cause of Allah (SWT) and the Message of our Rabb. If I offended anyone here, I apologize, and any misguidance is my own, and may Allah forgive me, and guidance is from Allah, and Allah knows best. |
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10-07-2009, 03:42 PM
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#32 |
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Salaam Sister, Shaykh Al-Bouti from Syria wears suit and pants. Is he inmodest? Shaykh Mahmud Effendi from Turkey wear baggy pants and shirt, sometimes with an overcoat... is he inmodest? I own a white shalwar kamiz and once wore it with a white underwear that had some block design stamped on it. Madny hours later, in the masjid, I was seated an looked at my legs and could perfectly see the design of my underwear, under the shalwar kamiz. However, when I wore my suit and pants, nothing could be seen. So tell me, in wich clothes I was most inmodest in the above case? I am not denying the merits of dressing in a manner that resembles our beloved Prophet and his companions, I myself prefer to wear a nice thoub and turban that jeans pants and shirt, but some people seens to have too deep isues with western clothes. A century or two ago that might be the case, because there was virtually no reverts in western countries and the western nations where in a deep strugle against us, but now there are thousends of reverts (like me), as muslims as any arab or indo-pak, and that are our dress... not the thoub, not the shalwar, not the lungi, and the western dress has became the dress of many cultures around the worls, losing it´s "western-only" trait. I do not see people complaining about the shalwar kamiz, that is in fact hindu in origin, but only see people compining about suits and jeans, no matter if thet are loose, baggy and above the ankles... why this? It is not like they are wearing a chatolic priest robe, or a jewish kippa and talit. I know of pious muslims reverts who pray correctly, wear a beard (even if it is prohibited in their workplace), even cover their heads with a skullcap in prayer, but do not like to dress daily in thobe/shalwar kamez because they feel like they are wearing a costume... it is just not "their" clothing. I will stop my rant there... sorry for anything, and sorry for my poor english... but sometimes I just don´t understand why such "hatred" for a simple suit or pants... |
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10-07-2009, 04:27 PM
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#33 |
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After reading Brazilian convert's post, I wanted to add that here in UAE, you can find in any given masjid in Abu Dhabi: a local emirati in white kamees (Emirate style) with the head piece (I forgot the name for it), a Jordanian or Egyptian with a close shaved beard or no beard in a suit, a Sudanese in a long white kamees ( Sudanese style) and a white turban, a Pakistani in skullcap/taqiya and shalwar, Indonesian with his cloth wrapped around his waist ( in his people's style) and his particular headpiece.
And for every one in traditional garb there are 3 or 4 in Western pants and shirt, or sometimes in a uniform. For the local emirati, they would not wear want the Pakistanis, Indians, and Afghanis wear as traditional because they consider them to be underdressed. In the end, the fundamental Shara' standards are what's important. And Allah knows best. |
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10-07-2009, 04:44 PM
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#34 |
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well shaykh bouti also trims his beard.....way less than a fist......and he is close with hafiz al assad and the alawis...and is against tasawuff...he has written against taswur-e-shaykh......so shaykh bouti is not right on all matters.....he is a very scholarly person mashallah but the actions of 1 individual is no proof......he also supports suicide bombing in palestine and even called for the targetting of american military targets anywhere in the world......he is also lenient with shias
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10-07-2009, 07:09 PM
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#35 |
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Now there are thousends of reverts (like me), as muslims as any arab or indo-pak, and that are our dress... not the thoub, not the shalwar, not the lungi, and the western dress has became the dress of many cultures around the worls, losing it´s "western-only" trait. I do not see people complaining about the shalwar kamiz, that is in fact hindu in origin, but only see people compining about suits and jeans, no matter if thet are loose, baggy and above the ankles... why this? It is not like they are wearing a chatolic priest robe, or a jewish kippa and talit. And do you know what the origin of European formal wear is (suit, tie, jacket)? Not a priest robe, indeed.... I know of pious muslims reverts who pray correctly, wear a beard (even if it is prohibited in their workplace), even cover their heads with a skullcap in prayer, but do not like to dress daily in thobe/shalwar kamez because they feel like they are wearing a costume... it is just not "their" clothing. Similarly, I know pious muslim reverts who do all that, and wear shalwar kameez to work in their offices every day out of love for the sunnah of the Prophet and a wish to be identified as Muslims rather than blending into the crowd. Sometimes, Islam means pushing yourself to do things that feel uncomfortable in the beginning.  if you make effort, Allah will not only make it easy, but you will start to have advantages in this world from loving the sunnah. I have heard from many friends that received advancements and won jobs after wearing Muslim clothes to interviews/evaluations. Most people will respect someone that is not afraid to show what they believe in openly, and standing out from the crowd also has its advantages.
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10-07-2009, 07:40 PM
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#36 |
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says Islam. look up Rasoolulah sallalahu alyhi wassalam`s Attire 
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10-07-2009, 07:55 PM
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#37 |
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Sister suduko, please show me anywhere in the hadith books that says Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him wore topi, kurta and all these other clothes. Theres something going on here..it seems people of South Asian background want to impose their culture specific understanding of Islam on others. It's really sad and infuriating to see reverts being pressurised to wear other people's ethnic dress. I can understand if you dislike western dress personally or because of colonialism. But aren't you lot behaving like the British now? thinking and believing that your cultural dress is superior and more worthy to be worn?? Very sad state of affairs |
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10-07-2009, 08:02 PM
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#38 |
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After reading Brazilian convert's post, I wanted to add that here in UAE, you can find in any given masjid in Abu Dhabi: a local emirati in white kamees (Emirate style) with the head piece (I forgot the name for it), a Jordanian or Egyptian with a close shaved beard or no beard in a suit, a Sudanese in a long white kamees ( Sudanese style) and a white turban, a Pakistani in skullcap/taqiya and shalwar, Indonesian with his cloth wrapped around his waist ( in his people's style) and his particular headpiece. We're making progress brother. Isn't that wonderful though? the diversity in the Ummah? No one should force the other to adopt their traditional dress. Not even Arabs. We shouldn't all be clones. Diversity is GOOD. Allah s.w.t speaks about in the Qur'an. Please I beg you do not alienate and exclude indigenous Europeans and other converts from all the hundreds and hundreds of cultures around the World from that group. Each have their traditions and their cultural dress.PLEASE Brother.
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10-07-2009, 08:06 PM
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#39 |
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You are right, it is a sad state of affairs indeed.. People seem to want Islam and the sunnah to be whatever they wish it to be, rejecting things without even considering there might actually be a proof. If I bring a proof that Rasulullah wore a topi, will you believe that proof? Or will I just be wasting my time searching for ahadeeth which will later be called 'daeef' or 'fabricated'. Nevertheless, here is some below. Read this thread A quote from that thread Question: What is the ruling on a topi in shariah? sunat, mustahab ect? If it is possible can you please provide daleel? Answer: In the Name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful, Wearing a hat (Qalansuwa in Arabic) is the Sunnah of our blessed Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), Sahaba (Allah be pleased with them all) and the great scholars and pious predecessors of this Ummah. There are many evidences which support this. Just to mention a few: 1) Abdullah Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) used to wear a white hat (Recorded by Tabrani). 2) Hasan al-Basri (Allah be pleased with him) says: “The people (Sahaba-Allah be pleased with them all) used to perform Sajdah (prostration) upon their turbans and hats (Sahih al-Bukhari, 1/151). 3) Rukanah (Allah be pleased with him) says, I heard the Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) say: “The difference between us and the polytheists is, wearing the turban over the hat” (Sunan Abu Dawud, 4075 & Sunan Tirmizi, 3919). 4) In the ‘Musannaf’ of Ibn Abi Shaybah, the wearing of a hat is reported from Ali ibn al-Husain, Abdullah ibn Zubair, Dahhak and Abu Musa (Allah be pleased with them all). It is clear from the above that wearing a hat is a Sunnah. It has been the practise of the Ummah throughout history, and has become one of the symbols of Islam. The great Hanafi jurist, Mullah Ali al-Qari (Allah have mercy on him) states that the wearing of the hat has become one of the salient symbols of Islam. (Mirqat al-Masabih, vol.8 pg.246). Due to the above, the scholars mention that even though, not wearing a hat can not be classed as unlawful (haram), as it is a Sunnah, but due to the fact that it has become one of the signs of Islam, it is generally undesirable to keep the head exposed. One should try to keep the head covered whenever reasonably possible. And Allah knows best Muhammad ibn Adam Darul Iftaa Leicester, UK Now it is up to you to believe what Rasulullah wore or not. But, the majority of the Muslim will agree that he did indeed wear a topi and turban.Wassalaam |
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10-07-2009, 08:08 PM
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#40 |
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Topi (Head-Gear): Praying Salah bare-headed is AGAINST the Sunnah! Kurta (Qameez): Amongst many here is a Hasan Ghareeb Hadeeth from Tirmidhi: http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/D...Doc=2&Rec=2915 حدثنا محمد بن حميد الرازي حدثنا أبو تميلة والفضل بن موسى وزيد بن حباب عن عبد المؤمن بن خالد عن عبد الله بن بريدة عن أم سلمة قالت كان أحب الثياب إلى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم القميص قال أبو عيسى هذا حديث حسن غريب إنما نعرفه من حديث عبد المؤمن بن خالد تفرد به وهو مروزي وروى بعضهم هذا الحديث عن أبي تميلة عن عبد المؤمن بن خالد عن عبد الله بن بريدة عن أمه عن أم سلمة Sayyidatuna Umm Salma (RA) narrates that Rasul-ullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) preffered the Qameez (aka Kurta) over all other types of clothing. (Tirmidhi) The clothing worn by Muslims in South Asia is distinct and different from Non-Muslims (Hindus) which signifies that it comes from an Islamic background. Hindu men and women wear clothes different to Muslims so if it was an Asian culture thing then there wouldn't be a difference.  The entire book to be made available on http://www.central-mosque.com/index.html soon, Insha'Allah |
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