[paypaltoegold1]

Those who are in islahi talluq with a sheikh knows its benefits like how it affects them and their life and how much it brought the fikr of islah, akhirat and so on. Such people know its importance and i dont think this will be understood by those who do not have such contacts and so I am not surprised with the comments but I dont think this will change others who have the contact of shuyook as they have experienced many positive things. As long as it helps one to progress in deen, islahi talluq is highly appreciative irrespective of people's views against it. Allahu alam

Agreed.

Relationship with a Shaykh is beneficial for some people but its not “THE WAY” or “THE ONLY WAY” and those well versed in Tassawuff never claim this, they just say its “ONE OF THE EASIEST WAYS FOR MOST PEOPLE (in their opinion) ”.

Allah (SWT) has created all of us differently with different natures and we all react to different mechanisms differently. The point is to reform ourselves, realise our short comings act on the Sunnah and Deen and utilise whatever is of benefit to in the most effective manner.

Cyber (online time) and listening to talks (in cars or ipods or MP3) can NEVER replace physical company of the pious. And as long people find the time to spend time in the company of those whom Allah (SWT) has blessed with the opportunity to follow the Sunnah and make Mushwara with them (about their affairs) that’s fine; if a person doesn't have oppurtunity for physical company then online is a fallback method but not the first and primary method.

[sallythetolly]

Agreed.

Relationship with a Shaykh is beneficial for some people but its not “THE WAY” or “THE ONLY WAY” and those well versed in Tassawuff never claim this, they just say its “ONE OF THE EASIEST WAYS FOR MOST PEOPLE (in their opinion) ”.

Allah (SWT) has created all of us differently with different natures and we all react to different mechanisms differently. The point is to reform ourselves, realise our short comings act on the Sunnah and Deen and utilise whatever is of benefit to in the most effective manner.

Cyber (online time) and listening to talks (in cars or ipods or MP3) can NEVER replace physical company of the pious. And as long people find the time to spend time in the company of those whom Allah (SWT) has blessed with the opportunity to follow the Sunnah and make Mushwara with them (about their affairs) that’s fine; if a person doesn't have oppurtunity for physical company then online is a fallback method but not the first and primary method.

Yes thats my point it is one of the ways. Those who benefit so get benefited.
When I came in touch with few tableeghi sisters few weeks before, I came to know they do not know much about sheikh thing and there are many who do not but for them tableegh helps them to bring closer to Allah SWT. I am just fine with it as Allah SWT by His wisdom shows people a different way to bring them close to Allah SWT.

Coming to the point, hearing bayans over internet may not replace physical company, this I cannot comment bcos I am unable to compare as I prefer staying inside home and prefer listening to speeches from here and I see it as a blessing that Allah SWT eased the way. And Alhamdulillah I have got benefited and I have experienced a very positive effect bi-idnillah. It is again one of the ways that ALlah SWT shows to His slaves. I dont think one can disregard this. Allah SWT knows our heart and when we earnestly seek for guidance, even the bayans heard over internet can benefit us. I have felt many times as the issues discussed in the bayans is like talking to me. This was not just felt by me but it seems many have experienced the same and this was once mentioned by the Sheikh in his bayan and he told to the effect that this is the barakah that ALlah SWT puts in the bayans of shuyook as He SWT knows what is in the heart of the listeners and so He SWT brings the cure through the words of the shuyook. So I dont completely agree that listening bayans through internet is not that uselful. As long as Allah SWT grants one fikr of islah and helps them to act on the advise of the shuyook, it is indeed blessed even if they are to hear the bayans over internet or anything. Allahu alam

[paypaltoegold1]

Yes thats my point it is one of the ways. Those who benefit so get benefited.
When I came in touch with few tableeghi sisters few weeks before, I came to know they do not know much about sheikh thing and there are many who do not but for them tableegh helps them to bring closer to Allah SWT. I am just fine with it as Allah SWT by His wisdom shows people a different way to bring them close to Allah SWT.

Coming to the point, hearing bayans over internet may not replace physical company, this I cannot comment bcos I am unable to compare as I prefer staying inside home and prefer listening to speeches from here and I see it as a blessing that Allah SWT eased the way. And Alhamdulillah I have got benefited and I have experienced a very positive effect bi-idnillah. It is again one of the ways that ALlah SWT shows to His slaves. I dont think one can disregard this. Allah SWT knows our heart and when we earnestly seek for guidance, even the bayans heard over internet can benefit us. I have felt many times as the issues discussed in the bayans is like talking to me. This was not just felt by me but it seems many have experienced the same and this was once mentioned by the Sheikh in his bayan and he told to the effect that this is the barakah that ALlah SWT puts in the bayans of shuyook as He SWT knows what is in the heart of the listeners and so He SWT brings the cure through the words of the shuyook. So I dont completely agree that listening bayans through internet is not that uselful. As long as Allah SWT grants one fikr of islah and helps them to act on the advise of the shuyook, it is indeed blessed even if they are to hear the bayans over internet or anything. Allahu alam

Tableegh & (present day) Tassawuff are both Ijtehaads of Ulamah. But appa I am not saying (for men) that listening to Bayans on the Internet is not beneficial just saying that physical company of Ulamah is more beneficial and can’t be substituted; off course it may be different for women as I have no idea how their situation works.

Personally the Islaah of a woman should be done but her Mahram (he can speak to Ulamah and seek clarifications) but thats my opinion.

[sallythetolly]

Tableegh & (present day) Tassawuff are both Ijtehaads of Ulamah. But appa I am not saying (for men) that listening to Bayans on the Internet is not beneficial just saying that physical company of Ulamah is more beneficial and can’t be substituted; off course it may be different for women as I have no idea how their situation works.

Personally the Islaah of a woman should be done but her Mahram (he can speak to Ulamah and seek clarifications) but thats my opinion.

As far as the woman's islahi talluq, here is the fatwa from askimam explaining the importance of islahi talluq of even women and the conditions of such a talluq. So those who have such talluq and get benefited, then Alhamdulillah. Of course you can have your own opinion but I personally do not agree with this aspect to be disregarded altogether. Allahu alam

************************************************** *******
I wanted to know if women are allowed to take Bai’ah( pledge) with men?

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

As-salāmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuh.

Alhamdullillāh, it is very encouraging to see many women are showing their zeal to spiritually rectify themselves.

When an individual takes Bay’ah with a pious person, he/she intends to repent to Allāh Ta’ālā from past sins and makes a firm intention to refrain from future sins with the help and support of the spiritual guide. Another purpose of Bay’ah is to remove the obstacles that hinder an individual from the recognition and pleasure of Allāh Ta’ālā such as the debasing inner qualities and bad deeds by following the instructions of one’s spiritual mentor. [1]

Spiritual reformation is crucially important for women just as it is for men. Therefore, in principle it is permissible for women to take Bay’ah with a man if certain conditions are fulfilled. [2]

The following are a few points to consider before choosing a spiritual guide:

· The spiritual guide must be a person who adheres to Sharīah. He follows the Sunnat and refrains from Bid’at (innovations). Many sincere seekers of reformation complain about the lack of trust in the spiritual guide as the person they trusted has betrayed them by breaking the laws of Sharīah such as free talking with women disciples and not observing the laws of Hijāb. Unfortunately, nowadays there are such people who deceive innocent individuals into believing that they are capable of guiding others spiritually but in reality they are misguided themselves.

· The laws of Hijāb must be abided by between the mentor and the female disciple. Discarding the laws of Hijāb is the direct disobedience of Allāh and to disobey Allāh contradicts the very inception of the institution of Bay’ah.

· There must be compatibility between the spiritual guide and the disciple. One type of medication may be suitable for one patient and may not be suitable for another. Both are medications. However the focus is on what works. If one type of medication is more advertised and more popular, it does not mean it will be suitable for all. There are many people who are qualified spiritual guides. Some are popular and others are not. In medication one searches for the most suitable medication for one’s self. If the popular medication is not affective, one does not leave it there. He will search until he finds the most suitable medicine.


· The spiritual guide must have spent adequate time in the company of a spiritual guide (Sheikh) and must have earned the trust of his Sheikh.



It is advisable that one creates a spiritual relationship (Islāhi Ta’lluq) with the mentor one finds suitable before actually taking Bay’ah. If one finds him to be compatible, then he/she can proceed with the Bay’ah.

And Allah Ta’āla Knows Best

Mawlana Abdul Azīm bin Abdur Rahman,
Student Darul Iftaa
US

Checked and Approved by,
Mufti Ebrahim Desai.
www.daruliftaa.net
http://www.askimam.org/public/question_detail/19933
************************************************** **********
PS: If the aapa is translated as a elder sister in urdu, I dont deserve that respect from you and if it is generally used for alima even if they are younger as I have seen in the forum for the first time, I again don't deserve it. So kindly avoid calling me aapa.

wassalam

[ArrichMer]

Assalaamu 'alaykum ww
Why this is made into such a big deal i do not understand!

Tasawwuf, Tabligh, Ta'leem etc. are not the maqsad (objective/goal) of life, Ridhaa i Ilaahi is the maqsad i.e. His Ma'rifat, Muhabbat etc (for both men and women). Shaykh Zakariyya ra used to say that even salaat, sawm, hajj and zakat are not the maqsad, the maqsad is Ridhaa i Ilaahi. There are many paths to attain just this, so choose whichever the heart inclines towards, simple!

edit: by the way i heard this from my Shaykh (i added the "men & women" bit) : )

[sallythetolly]

Assalaamu 'alaykum ww
Why this is made into such a big deal i do not understand!

Tasawwuf, Tabligh, Ta'leem etc. are not the maqsad (objective/goal) of life, Ridhaa i Ilaahi is the maqsad i.e. His Ma'rifat, Muhabbat etc (for both men and women). Shaykh Zakariyya ra used to say that even salaat, sawm, hajj and zakat are not the maqsad, the maqsad is Ridhaa i Ilaahi. There are many paths to attain just this, so choose whichever the heart inclines towards, simple!

edit: by the way i heard this from my Shaykh (i added the "men & women" bit) : )

walaikum assalam WW auntyji
I dont deny it either. Allah SWT shows each a different way of getting close to Him SWT. My sheikh (Maulana Abdus sattar (DB))said the same, the main maqsad is one gets ikhlaas and himmat to do righteous deeds and give up sins. If this is achieved through tasawwuf or islahi talluq or whatever, it should just be fine. Allahu alam

[paypaltoegold1]

Assalaamu 'alaykum ww
Why this is made into such a big deal i do not understand!

Tasawwuf, Tabligh, Ta'leem etc. are not the maqsad (objective/goal) of life, Ridhaa i Ilaahi is the maqsad i.e. His Ma'rifat, Muhabbat etc (for both men and women). Shaykh Zakariyya ra used to say that even salaat, sawm, hajj and zakat are not the maqsad, the maqsad is Ridhaa i Ilaahi. There are many paths to attain just this, so choose whichever the heart inclines towards, simple!

edit: by the way i heard this from my Shaykh (i added the "men & women" bit) : )

Appa,

Don't have a disagreement with anything, above.

As far as the woman's islahi talluq, here is the fatwa from askimam explaining the importance of islahi talluq of even women and the conditions of such a talluq. So those who have such talluq and get benefited, then Alhamdulillah. Of course you can have your own opinion but I personally do not agree with this aspect to be disregarded altogether. Allahu alam

************************************************** *******
I wanted to know if women are allowed to take Bai’ah( pledge) with men?


PS: If the aapa is translated as a elder sister in urdu, I dont deserve that respect from you and if it is generally used for alima even if they are younger as I have seen in the forum for the first time, I again don't deserve it. So kindly avoid calling me aapa.

wassalam

You have provided an opinion of a Shaykh (Mufti) Saheb (HA) and thats fine.

I am not Gujrati so Aapa/Baji/Behan is used in general for women (in our terms) and not exclusive to an Alimah or even someone older, its just a phrase for respect but I will avoid it as recommended.

Just as "Bhai" doesn't imply that someone in an older brother or a gangster.

[sallythetolly]

Appa,

Don't have a disagreement with anything, above.







You have provided an opinion of a Shaykh (Mufti) Saheb (HA) and thats fine.

I am not Gujrati so Aapa/Baji/Behan is used in general for women (in our terms) and not exclusive to an Alimah or even someone older, its just a phrase for respect but I will avoid it as recommended.

Just as "Bhai" doesn't imply that someone in an older brother or a gangster.

Yeah I think it should be fine if one chooses that line and gets benefited as others choose someother line and get benefited inshaaAllah.

I apologize for my weak understanding of 'aapa' as we used it for elder sisters here and I am also not gujrati. Khair I will leave here.

wassalam

[paypaltoegold1]

Yeah I think it should be fine if one chooses that line and gets benefited as others choose someother line and get benefited inshaaAllah.

I apologize for my weak understanding of 'aapa'

I didn't even know that Aapa = Alimah until I got to UK and ran into Gujratees (and other Deobandees). I studied Qur'aan in younger days from Alimahs (because of my mother) in Pakistan and we didn't call them Apaas we called them "Ustani-Jee" or older ones we just called them "Amma" as everybody did.

Alimahs in Pakistan are not generally called “Aaapas”.

Aapa/Baji/Behan/Beti is used commonly for any women even girls depending on the situation just like "Hazrat" is used as respect (or nowadays in a derogatory way in sarcasm) and not necessarily limited to an Alim or a Shaykh in common language, although it is used for them as well.

A Senior Maulana told us in Hajj Bayan that he went to Burma (decades ago) and bought some things from a Buddhist girl and didn’t have any change and he asked her if he can leave his things, go get change and then come back and pay her (with the correct amount). The Girl replied in perfect Urdu , “Your Beti will go and get it for you (Your daughter will go and get the change for you)”

So he said that thats how good the Akhlaaq of these people used to be decades ago and thats how good the relationships between Muslims and Buddhists were.

[sallythetolly]

Well I didnt even know aalima=aapa is a gujarati thing. New things to learn from this forum everyday. Khair as long as we have good akhlaaq and have azmat for fellow muslims in the heart, then Alhamdulillah.

[HwoRas1]

By all means go ahead and get baya'h to a Shaykh if you like it but never ever consider Tabligh as not necessary, Tasawwuf is a work among those who have talab (earnestness) while Tabligh is the opposite. There is growing Qadiyanism among Muslims in Himachal Pradesh in India, who is going to go there and work? During dawah, all the qualities you think you have will be put to test, your tawazo, your ilm, your sabr, your health, your strength and please its not just the men who are needed, even women are needed to get into the work, men can't speak to the women...but women can, get my point? Don't look at the work thats happened before...look at how much more work is yet to happen. Dawah is still to reach billions...like Maulana Tariq Jameel Saheb db once said: "This is no time for the Muslim ummah to sit at home"

[HwoRas1]

In the fitnah filled modern times it is obligatory to have a Shaikh.
My assessment. Those who want to ignore it do so at their own risk.

Noble Qur'an told Companions (RA) that beloved Prophet (PBUH) cleanses you by reading the Verse of the Noble Qur'an. Tasawwuf is imitation of that.

In India there is a book called Rapidax English Speaking Course. 20 million copies of that were sold decades ago. It is still selling and more books like that have appeared. Let us put the total combine number of such books at 100 million. Out of those 100 million buys I have not met even a single one who would assert that he speaks English because of that book or the books of that type.

Ergo - you need a teacher to learn. Even in case of spirituality.

This is ad hominem. Purpose of a Shaikh is to take you closer to Allah (SWT) and not the opposite.

One should be very careful about choosing a Shaikh but your import, that you have repeated earlier too, is rather missionary. Your disposition is negative.

The Elders say the same thing about the 5 kaam - be steadfast on it and it'll save you & the ummah from the fitnah's.

[kathy]

Well I didnt even know aalima=aapa is a gujarati thing. New things to learn from this forum everyday. Khair as long as we have good akhlaaq and have azmat for fellow muslims in the heart, then Alhamdulillah.

Yeah neither did i. But how cute isn't Apa jee... its even better than Dudu miah!!!

Back on topic. This is a nice thread. I like this article from interislam......

The need of a Sheikh
It has always been the divine scheme of things that perfection cannot be attained without a teacher or an expert instructor. In the same way, a person needs guidance in the beginning of a driving course so to a person needs guidance in Tasawwuf.

The companionship of a pious person will include piety in you. Similarly, the companionship of a evil person will induce evil in you. To gain the nearest rank to Allah, one has to have a guider i.e. Sheikh who has reached that level as well. A short while spent in the companionship of the pious is more superior to a century of ordinary obedience. Companionship with the pious for even a moment can be superior to a century of abstention and worship. The best of creations, the Messenger also had a teacher, his teacher was the Angel Jibraeel. If the leader of mankind, Muhammed was in need of a guider then we are more in need of a guider and a Sheikh.

The Prophet then became the teacher of the companions and the Sheikhs of the nations of their time. He diagnosed the spiritual diseases of the companions and created the quality of Ihsaan in their lives. They reached the highest level in all aspects of their lives. There is, therefore, always need for a man to have another person as his guide and instructor, who can practically demonstrate to him whatever knowledge he wishes to learn or whatever aim he desires to achieve. This is the very same reason that Allah sent Messengers and Prophets who were made to instruct and practically demonstrate to all of Mankind.

see full article www.inter-islam.org/faith/tassawwufshk.htm

[paypaltoegold1]

Yeah neither did i. But how cute isn't Apa jee... its even better than Dudu miah!!!

Back on topic. This is a nice thread. I like this article from interislam......

The need of a Sheikh
It has always been the divine scheme of things that perfection cannot be attained without a teacher or an expert instructor. In the same way, a person needs guidance in the beginning of a driving course so to a person needs guidance in Tasawwuf.

The companionship of a pious person will include piety in you. Similarly, the companionship of a evil person will induce evil in you. To gain the nearest rank to Allah, one has to have a guider i.e. Sheikh who has reached that level as well. A short while spent in the companionship of the pious is more superior to a century of ordinary obedience. Companionship with the pious for even a moment can be superior to a century of abstention and worship. The best of creations, the Messenger also had a teacher, his teacher was the Angel Jibraeel. If the leader of mankind, Muhammed was in need of a guider then we are more in need of a guider and a Sheikh.

The Prophet then became the teacher of the companions and the Sheikhs of the nations of their time. He diagnosed the spiritual diseases of the companions and created the quality of Ihsaan in their lives. They reached the highest level in all aspects of their lives. There is, therefore, always need for a man to have another person as his guide and instructor, who can practically demonstrate to him whatever knowledge he wishes to learn or whatever aim he desires to achieve. This is the very same reason that Allah sent Messengers and Prophets who were made to instruct and practically demonstrate to all of Mankind.

see full article www.inter-islam.org/faith/tassawwufshk.htm

No problems with any of these articles and examples and references except for a pious person doesn’t ALWAYS equate to a Shaykh (in Tassawuff).

1. Our Imam at the Mosque is nearly 70 and a student of Shaykhul-Hadeeth (Maulana) Zakariyya (RA) and very knowledgeable and very pious.
2. There are dozens of Ulamah in UK (and worlwide) who are equally pious and knowledgeable YET no Shaykhs (of Tassawuff).
3. There are thousands of men and women in UK (and worlwide) who are equally pious and knowledgeable YET no Shaykhs (of Tassawuff).

[35:28]
And among humans and beasts and cattle, there are those having different colours as well. Only those of His slaves fear Allah who are knowledgeable. Surely Allah is Mighty, Forgiving.

In India there is a book called Rapidax English Speaking Course. 20 million copies of that were sold decades ago. It is still selling and more books like that have appeared. Let us put the total combine number of such books at 100 million. Out of those 100 million buys I have not met even a single one who would assert that he speaks English because of that book or the books of that type.

Qur'aan is not the book of a human but divine and Allah (SWT) declares:


[8:2] Certainly, the believers are those whose hearts are filled with awe when (the name of) Allah is mentioned; and when His verses are recited to them, it makes them more developed in faith; and in their Lord they place their trust.

So if anyone simply recites it then it works as its the declaration of My Lord (SWT).



P.S: I am not undermining Tassawuff but pointing out a fact.

[ricochettty]

Qur'aan is not the book of a human but divine and Allah (SWT) declares:


[8:2] Certainly, the believers are those whose hearts are filled with awe when (the name of) Allah is mentioned; and when His verses are recited to them, it makes them more developed in faith; and in their Lord they place their trust.

So if anyone simply recites it then it works as its the declaration of My Lord (SWT).

P.S: I am not undermining Tassawuff but pointing out a fact. I understand.

Indeed recitation of the Noble Qur'an does carry its benefits whether you understand the meaning or not.
And then this is the assertion from Sufis themselves!

[sallythetolly]

Well thats right, it is not compulsory to have a sheikh but as said before definitely one of the ways to get close to Allah SWT. I know there are many who are pious who never even know about shaikh, islahi talluq and so on. Allah SWT guides people as He SWT wills in a unique way. Allahu alam

[paypaltoegold1]

And then this is the assertion from Sufis themselves!

Its an assertion from Allah (SWT).

[ricochettty]

Its an assertion from Allah (SWT).

I submit - they are indeed repeating Allah (SWT)'s assertion.

[ArrichMer]

I submit - they are indeed repeating Allah (SWT)'s assertion.

They are indeed!! Alhamdulillah for all efforts.....Thread closed!!!! (before this now becomes a guji/paki fight)

[sallythetolly]

They are indeed!! Alhamdulillah for all efforts.....Thread closed!!!! (before this now becomes a guji/paki fight)

At least I dont see there is any fight between guji and paki. I hope you said in a light manner.
wassalam