Jinnah and Scholars - Page 2 - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**peakyesno** · 07-05-2007, 09:08 PM

It seems you are talking to me in 3rd person form.

I do appologise if it sooo ofended you, I did greet to those who are upon hudaa.. so there shouldnt be a problem

P.S I am not siding with ML or PPP or anyone, rather with the Ulama like Hakim ul Ummah r.a .. They do not need defence from anyone..

**Nicihntm** · 07-05-2007, 09:13 PM

Forget it bro, I realise what you are saying and as I said I am here to learn so feel free to correct my mistakes when you see them.

I have the utmost love and respect for Hakim ul Ummah(R.A) but I also have the right to disagree with him on the political issue of pakistan and I lean towards Hazarat Hussain Ahmed Madni (R.A) on the issue. I was reading about the dispute between Hakim ul Ummah(R.A) and Hazrat Hussain Ahmed Madni(R.A) in Maulana Muhammad Zakarriyahh Kandlhavi 's "Aap Beti". Hazrat Hussain Ahmed Madni has been dis respected by the ML supporters for not sharing their points of view.

**peakyesno** · 07-05-2007, 09:16 PM

Jazak Allah and I shall hope the same from you..

The thread in the least outlines the likness of many of elder Ulama for Jinaah Saheb. The is no one to say Jinnah Saheb was a wali or this or that, it is merely to establish that Jinnah Saheb had relations with the Ulema e Haqq and he constantly related with them.

I hope we dont take any political connotations out of the thread..

**juliannamed** · 07-05-2007, 11:22 PM

As per Stanley Wolpert, Jinnah's official biographer,Jinnah was a pork eating, alcohol drinking ismaili who due to his distaste with the aga khan turned to twelver shia, which is kufr as per our khan baba!

!

Also as the brother mentioned, you wont take the words of many senrio Ulema who knew him from close but some kafir.

That was during his early life, but when he saw British and Hindu hatred for the Muslim, he came close to the religion. And as I mentioned, Hakeem ul Ummat told the scholars to work on his religion.

He was also not Twelver as per Mufti Muhammed Shafi. Also he told a Sunni to lead his funderal. I think you have not read any of the original post. If he was Isna Ashri, Allamah Shabbir Ahmed would have never read his jinaza because according to Allamah Usmani Isna Ahsris are not Muslims.

Munshi Abdur-Rehman Khan has written a book, "Quaid-e-azam Ka Mazhab". Those who are more interested in his religion then their own should read it. It says that he had become a Sunni. Repented for all previous non-Islamic things. The Ismiali/Aga-Khani's actively removed his membership and did his social boycott.

His inheritance was distributed as per Sunni-Hanafi way. Mufti-e-Azam Pakistan Hazrat Muti Mohammad Shafi' gave evidence of him being a Sunni in the court-trial on this issue.

**juliannamed** · 07-05-2007, 11:27 PM

Does anyone know what the scholars felt during the events which lead to the east vs west Pakistan war and also about the war itself? Especially the scholars who were reporting to Hakimul Ummah ( rah ) _ Allamah Shabir Ahmed Usmani, Allamah Zafar Ahmed Thanvi, Mufti Shafi ( rah ) .

Hakeem ul Ummat passed away few years before Pakistan was created.

Allamah Shabbir Ahmed Usmani passed away after 2 eyars of creation of Pakistan.

Same was case with Allamah Zafar Ahmed Usmani.

And Mufti Muhammed Shafi passed away little later but he was very elderly.

Also at that time Qadyanis have taken control of top governemt positions, so most scholars were working to decrease their influence.

**juliannamed** · 07-05-2007, 11:42 PM

Muhammed Ali Jinnah or British were not behind the two-Nation theory as conspiracy theorists say:

In June 1928, when Maulana Hussain Ahmed Madani and Maulana Abdul Majid Daryabadi came to Thana Bhuwan to meet Hazrat Thanvi, he told them that my heart wished there was a seperate nation, and where all the laws are of Shariat".

Taymeer e Pakistan or Ulmae Rabbani, by Munshi Abdul Rahman, page 41.

And this was long before Jinnah talked about two-Nation theory. And Dr. Iqbal was other person who came up with this idea.

As a Brother said:

To assumes that Mr. Jinnah 'invented' the two-Nations theory is wrong. . Jinnah was all for Hindu-Muslim unity earlier on. And that was AFTER he came back from the West. It was Dr. Allaman Muhammed Iqbal who had come up with the idea. (so it was not a British Idea, and we know Dr. Iwbal was a student of Imam Anwar Shah Kashmiri till the death of Imam.) But it was Iqbal who formulated the two-nations theory formally. It is complete ignorance to state that Jinnah invented the two-nations theory as a result of Western influence. In fact, there is documented evidence to suggest that Iqbal was the leading force that caused Jinnah to 'convert' to the side of the Muslims. Even then Jinnah did not concede defeat to the two nations theory. He became member of Muslim League, and REMAINED member of Congress, in order to work out a solution. But Congress wouldn't yield. Finally, Jinnah thought it best to work for Muslims alone. A very smart move, considering the plight of the Muslims in India today.

**Nicihntm** · 07-05-2007, 11:48 PM

Maybe so but there were two great ulama at least who opposed Pakistan formation.

**juliannamed** · 07-05-2007, 11:49 PM

Maybe so but there were two great ulama at least who opposed Pakistan formation.

I am aware of that and these were Ijtehadi differences and as you have mentioned you are reading that book by Shaikh Zakaria, so you are aware they still had so much respect for eachother.

**Unlopssesuj** · 07-06-2007, 02:27 AM

P.S: Division of East/West Pakistan is one of my favourite topics and I have read ample stuff in Urdu & English from Pakistani, Indian & Bengali sources but most people are too emotional about this topic & CAN’T (or don’t want) the truth!

Brother Id like to hear what you know inshaAllah.

**Unlopssesuj** · 07-06-2007, 02:43 AM

Maybe so but there were two great ulama at least who opposed Pakistan formation.

Assalamualaikum
brother i read sumwhere that for muslims to move to pakistan or stay in india at the time of separation _ both were valid ideas _ as one group of scholars wanted to stay in India and the other group was all for Pakistan. So although there was the famous ikhtilaaf amongst our * hasti *at that time, this avoided problematic circumstances eg: if all our Scholars were pro Pakistan , it whould be very very difficult for muslims to stay in India, esp at that time, khair , maybe you prolly knew that already. Anyway what id like to say is reading Aap Beeti really opened up my mind. Prior to reading that book I could prolly never have figured that 2 ppl can differ yet be on Haq. Allah increase the status of Hazrat Shaikh Ul Hadith saab ( rah).

**Pete789** · 07-06-2007, 06:15 AM

I assume you are talking about Agha Khan Medical University. If so, then yes they have a large financial backing and therefore better equipment.

Thats why..

Yes I am .

Okay that answers my question and I appreciate the fact that you took your time and explained it to me.

Jazakullah Khair!

You see I didn't know about the fact that they had a large financial backing or else I would never ask you this question.

Wa-Salaam

**juliannamed** · 07-06-2007, 06:45 AM

Assalamualaikum
brother i read sumwhere that for muslims to move to pakistan or stay in india at the time of separation _ both were valid ideas _ as one group of scholars wanted to stay in India and the other group was all for Pakistan. So although there was the famous ikhtilaaf amongst our * hasti *at that time, this avoided problematic circumstances eg: if all our Scholars were pro Pakistan , it whould be very very difficult for muslims to stay in India, esp at that time, khair , maybe you prolly knew that already. Anyway what id like to say is reading Aap Beeti really opened up my mind. Prior to reading that book I could prolly never have figured that 2 ppl can differ yet be on Haq. Allah increase the status of Hazrat Shaikh Ul Hadith saab ( rah).

Its also mercy that there were two group of scholars. As it is said Shaikh Madani and his associates were responsible for looking after the Muslims who stayed back. If all the Ulema had joined Muslim League, Allah knows what would have happened to Muslims who stayed back. And same vise versa.

**Unlopssesuj** · 07-06-2007, 11:12 AM

Hakeem ul Ummat passed away few years before Pakistan was created.

Allamah Shabbir Ahmed Usmani passed away after 2 eyars of creation of Pakistan.

Same was case with Allamah Zafar Ahmed Usmani.

And Mufti Muhammed Shafi passed away little later but he was very elderly.

Also at that time Qadyanis have taken control of top governemt positions, so most scholars were working to decrease their influence.

Jazakallah
One thing which was never clear to me previously was that if Akabir of the status of Hakimul Ummat, Allama Shabbir Ahmed, Allama Zafar Ahmed, Mufti Shafi ( rah ) were all supporting Pakistans cause, and had such a high level of influence on the politicians of that time, why wasnt this influence used to ensure proper governance and prevent oppression of East Pakistan now Bangladesh.

About the above Hazarat can someone explain who was whos teacher meaning who was junior , who was whos murabbi? Who was Hakimul Ummats relative?

Can I get any info online about Allama Shabbir Ahmed and Allama Zafar Ahmed online?

**Unlopssesuj** · 07-06-2007, 11:15 AM

Also can anyone shed light on Maulana Abul Kalam Azad ( rah )?

**juliannamed** · 07-06-2007, 11:30 AM

Jazakallah
One thing which was never clear to me previously was that if Akabir of the status of Hakimul Ummat, Allama Shabbir Ahmed, Allama Zafar Ahmed, Mufti Shafi ( rah ) were all supporting Pakistans cause, and had such a high level of influence on the politicians of that time, why wasnt this influence used to ensure proper governance and prevent oppression of East Pakistan now Bangladesh.

About the above Hazarat can someone explain who was whos teacher meaning who was junior , who was whos murabbi? Who was Hakimul Ummats relative?

Can I get any info online about Allama Shabbir Ahmed and Allama Zafar Ahmed online?

Hakeem ul Ummat was senior of all of them and they were bayat to Hakeem ul Ummat. Allamah Zafar Ahmed was also related to Hazrat Thanvi and Hazrat was his uncle.

Mufti Muhammed Shafi was student of Allamah Shabbir Ahmed Usmani and Allamah Zafar Ahmed Usmani.

Imam Zafar Ahmad Uthmani was one of the greatest hadith experts of the 20th Century. His 18-volume work I'la' al-Sunan, of which this work is the final chapter, is widely regarded as one of the very best presentations of the legal reasoning and proofs of the Hanafi school of Islamic law. http://www31.brinkster.com/ak4thanvi...r_ahmed_us.htm

Tafseer-e-Usmani.

http://www.ahsanmedia.com/IslamicStu...seer_e_Usmani/

**Unlopssesuj** · 07-06-2007, 12:20 PM

Jazakumullah Khair
Why do all of them have Usmani in their names tho? were they graduates of the same madrasa? were they all family? Also its Mufti Shafi Usmani innit?
And I know his son is Mufti Taqi Usmani d.b.

**juliannamed** · 07-06-2007, 12:38 PM

Jazakumullah Khair
Why do all of them have Usmani in their names tho? were they graduates of the same madrasa? were they all family? Also its Mufti Shafi Usmani innit?
And I know his son is Mufti Taqi Usmani d.b.

Because they are descendants of the 3rd Khalifa Hazrat Usman r.a, thats why they are called Usmani.

Only Hazrat Thanvi and Allamah Zafar Ahmed were related, not others. He was nephew of Hazrat Thanvi.

**RichardFG435** · 01-02-2009, 11:58 PM

for the very useful informations

**EHjEjdqe** · 06-08-2012, 10:47 PM

It maybe true that Jinnah was a secular liberal at one point in his life BUT there is no doubt he died as a pious sunni muslim.

There is a lot of ignorance and lies being spread. Pakistan movement was for the creation of not only a Muslim country BUT as a stepping stone for the next Caliphate. It was made on the theories of Allama Iqbal who wanted to revive the Caliphate and his idea was to create a powerful country for Muslims with a powerful army that can build the Caliphate.

The ulema who were against Jinnah and Pakistan were the congressi mullah who enjoyed life with the hindus and were fully supported and backed by them just like the TTP today. Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani who was against Jinnah at first joined Jinnah later after a dream where he saw prohet Muhammad PBUH pointing to Jinnah and saying to Maulana that Jinnah is my mujahid and never go against him.

If Pakistan wasnt made today muslims would have been oppressed by the Hindus and would have been butchered by them.

Ofcourse the corrupt leaders took over the country after and Iqbals dream has not been achieved, BUT the hardest part of establishing Pakistan has been achieved now the next steps would be easy to be achieved, which is to bring back the leadership of Jinnah and muslim league and then call all muslim countries for an establishment of Caliphate. Why do you think the Amercians are so interested in Pakistans affairs and back all corrupt parties, because once a pious leader comes to power he can very easily establish a caliphate with all the power in pakistan.

**20170425yuanyuan** · 03-02-2018, 11:13 AM

07-05-2007, 09:08 PM	#21
peakyesno Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 377 Senior Member	It seems you are talking to me in 3rd person form. I do appologise if it sooo ofended you, I did greet to those who are upon hudaa.. so there shouldnt be a problem P.S I am not siding with ML or PPP or anyone, rather with the Ulama like Hakim ul Ummah r.a .. They do not need defence from anyone.. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-05-2007, 09:13 PM	#22
Nicihntm Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 562 Senior Member	Forget it bro, I realise what you are saying and as I said I am here to learn so feel free to correct my mistakes when you see them. I have the utmost love and respect for Hakim ul Ummah(R.A) but I also have the right to disagree with him on the political issue of pakistan and I lean towards Hazarat Hussain Ahmed Madni (R.A) on the issue. I was reading about the dispute between Hakim ul Ummah(R.A) and Hazrat Hussain Ahmed Madni(R.A) in Maulana Muhammad Zakarriyahh Kandlhavi 's "Aap Beti". Hazrat Hussain Ahmed Madni has been dis respected by the ML supporters for not sharing their points of view. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-05-2007, 09:16 PM	#23
peakyesno Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 377 Senior Member	Jazak Allah and I shall hope the same from you.. The thread in the least outlines the likness of many of elder Ulama for Jinaah Saheb. The is no one to say Jinnah Saheb was a wali or this or that, it is merely to establish that Jinnah Saheb had relations with the Ulema e Haqq and he constantly related with them. I hope we dont take any political connotations out of the thread.. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-05-2007, 11:22 PM	#24
juliannamed Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 498 Senior Member	As per Stanley Wolpert, Jinnah's official biographer,Jinnah was a pork eating, alcohol drinking ismaili who due to his distaste with the aga khan turned to twelver shia, which is kufr as per our khan baba! ! Also as the brother mentioned, you wont take the words of many senrio Ulema who knew him from close but some kafir. That was during his early life, but when he saw British and Hindu hatred for the Muslim, he came close to the religion. And as I mentioned, Hakeem ul Ummat told the scholars to work on his religion. He was also not Twelver as per Mufti Muhammed Shafi. Also he told a Sunni to lead his funderal. I think you have not read any of the original post. If he was Isna Ashri, Allamah Shabbir Ahmed would have never read his jinaza because according to Allamah Usmani Isna Ahsris are not Muslims. Munshi Abdur-Rehman Khan has written a book, "Quaid-e-azam Ka Mazhab". Those who are more interested in his religion then their own should read it. It says that he had become a Sunni. Repented for all previous non-Islamic things. The Ismiali/Aga-Khani's actively removed his membership and did his social boycott. His inheritance was distributed as per Sunni-Hanafi way. Mufti-e-Azam Pakistan Hazrat Muti Mohammad Shafi' gave evidence of him being a Sunni in the court-trial on this issue. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-05-2007, 11:27 PM	#25
juliannamed Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 498 Senior Member	Does anyone know what the scholars felt during the events which lead to the east vs west Pakistan war and also about the war itself? Especially the scholars who were reporting to Hakimul Ummah ( rah ) _ Allamah Shabir Ahmed Usmani, Allamah Zafar Ahmed Thanvi, Mufti Shafi ( rah ) . Hakeem ul Ummat passed away few years before Pakistan was created. Allamah Shabbir Ahmed Usmani passed away after 2 eyars of creation of Pakistan. Same was case with Allamah Zafar Ahmed Usmani. And Mufti Muhammed Shafi passed away little later but he was very elderly. Also at that time Qadyanis have taken control of top governemt positions, so most scholars were working to decrease their influence. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-05-2007, 11:42 PM	#26
juliannamed Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 498 Senior Member	Muhammed Ali Jinnah or British were not behind the two-Nation theory as conspiracy theorists say: In June 1928, when Maulana Hussain Ahmed Madani and Maulana Abdul Majid Daryabadi came to Thana Bhuwan to meet Hazrat Thanvi, he told them that my heart wished there was a seperate nation, and where all the laws are of Shariat". Taymeer e Pakistan or Ulmae Rabbani, by Munshi Abdul Rahman, page 41. And this was long before Jinnah talked about two-Nation theory. And Dr. Iqbal was other person who came up with this idea. As a Brother said: To assumes that Mr. Jinnah 'invented' the two-Nations theory is wrong. . Jinnah was all for Hindu-Muslim unity earlier on. And that was AFTER he came back from the West. It was Dr. Allaman Muhammed Iqbal who had come up with the idea. (so it was not a British Idea, and we know Dr. Iwbal was a student of Imam Anwar Shah Kashmiri till the death of Imam.) But it was Iqbal who formulated the two-nations theory formally. It is complete ignorance to state that Jinnah invented the two-nations theory as a result of Western influence. In fact, there is documented evidence to suggest that Iqbal was the leading force that caused Jinnah to 'convert' to the side of the Muslims. Even then Jinnah did not concede defeat to the two nations theory. He became member of Muslim League, and REMAINED member of Congress, in order to work out a solution. But Congress wouldn't yield. Finally, Jinnah thought it best to work for Muslims alone. A very smart move, considering the plight of the Muslims in India today. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-05-2007, 11:48 PM	#27
Nicihntm Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 562 Senior Member	Maybe so but there were two great ulama at least who opposed Pakistan formation. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-05-2007, 11:49 PM	#28
juliannamed Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 498 Senior Member	Maybe so but there were two great ulama at least who opposed Pakistan formation. I am aware of that and these were Ijtehadi differences and as you have mentioned you are reading that book by Shaikh Zakaria, so you are aware they still had so much respect for eachother. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-06-2007, 02:27 AM	#29
Unlopssesuj Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 499 Senior Member	P.S: Division of East/West Pakistan is one of my favourite topics and I have read ample stuff in Urdu & English from Pakistani, Indian & Bengali sources but most people are too emotional about this topic & CAN’T (or don’t want) the truth! Brother Id like to hear what you know inshaAllah. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-06-2007, 02:43 AM	#30
Unlopssesuj Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 499 Senior Member	Maybe so but there were two great ulama at least who opposed Pakistan formation. Assalamualaikum brother i read sumwhere that for muslims to move to pakistan or stay in india at the time of separation _ both were valid ideas _ as one group of scholars wanted to stay in India and the other group was all for Pakistan. So although there was the famous ikhtilaaf amongst our * hasti *at that time, this avoided problematic circumstances eg: if all our Scholars were pro Pakistan , it whould be very very difficult for muslims to stay in India, esp at that time, khair , maybe you prolly knew that already. Anyway what id like to say is reading Aap Beeti really opened up my mind. Prior to reading that book I could prolly never have figured that 2 ppl can differ yet be on Haq. Allah increase the status of Hazrat Shaikh Ul Hadith saab ( rah). Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-06-2007, 06:15 AM	#31
Pete789 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 536 Senior Member	I assume you are talking about Agha Khan Medical University. If so, then yes they have a large financial backing and therefore better equipment. Thats why.. Yes I am . Okay that answers my question and I appreciate the fact that you took your time and explained it to me. Jazakullah Khair! You see I didn't know about the fact that they had a large financial backing or else I would never ask you this question. Wa-Salaam Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-06-2007, 06:45 AM	#32
juliannamed Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 498 Senior Member	Assalamualaikum brother i read sumwhere that for muslims to move to pakistan or stay in india at the time of separation _ both were valid ideas _ as one group of scholars wanted to stay in India and the other group was all for Pakistan. So although there was the famous ikhtilaaf amongst our * hasti *at that time, this avoided problematic circumstances eg: if all our Scholars were pro Pakistan , it whould be very very difficult for muslims to stay in India, esp at that time, khair , maybe you prolly knew that already. Anyway what id like to say is reading Aap Beeti really opened up my mind. Prior to reading that book I could prolly never have figured that 2 ppl can differ yet be on Haq. Allah increase the status of Hazrat Shaikh Ul Hadith saab ( rah). Its also mercy that there were two group of scholars. As it is said Shaikh Madani and his associates were responsible for looking after the Muslims who stayed back. If all the Ulema had joined Muslim League, Allah knows what would have happened to Muslims who stayed back. And same vise versa. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-06-2007, 11:12 AM	#33
Unlopssesuj Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 499 Senior Member	Hakeem ul Ummat passed away few years before Pakistan was created. Allamah Shabbir Ahmed Usmani passed away after 2 eyars of creation of Pakistan. Same was case with Allamah Zafar Ahmed Usmani. And Mufti Muhammed Shafi passed away little later but he was very elderly. Also at that time Qadyanis have taken control of top governemt positions, so most scholars were working to decrease their influence. Jazakallah One thing which was never clear to me previously was that if Akabir of the status of Hakimul Ummat, Allama Shabbir Ahmed, Allama Zafar Ahmed, Mufti Shafi ( rah ) were all supporting Pakistans cause, and had such a high level of influence on the politicians of that time, why wasnt this influence used to ensure proper governance and prevent oppression of East Pakistan now Bangladesh. About the above Hazarat can someone explain who was whos teacher meaning who was junior , who was whos murabbi? Who was Hakimul Ummats relative? Can I get any info online about Allama Shabbir Ahmed and Allama Zafar Ahmed online? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-06-2007, 11:15 AM	#34
Unlopssesuj Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 499 Senior Member	Also can anyone shed light on Maulana Abul Kalam Azad ( rah )? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-06-2007, 11:30 AM	#35
juliannamed Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 498 Senior Member	Jazakallah One thing which was never clear to me previously was that if Akabir of the status of Hakimul Ummat, Allama Shabbir Ahmed, Allama Zafar Ahmed, Mufti Shafi ( rah ) were all supporting Pakistans cause, and had such a high level of influence on the politicians of that time, why wasnt this influence used to ensure proper governance and prevent oppression of East Pakistan now Bangladesh. About the above Hazarat can someone explain who was whos teacher meaning who was junior , who was whos murabbi? Who was Hakimul Ummats relative? Can I get any info online about Allama Shabbir Ahmed and Allama Zafar Ahmed online? Hakeem ul Ummat was senior of all of them and they were bayat to Hakeem ul Ummat. Allamah Zafar Ahmed was also related to Hazrat Thanvi and Hazrat was his uncle. Mufti Muhammed Shafi was student of Allamah Shabbir Ahmed Usmani and Allamah Zafar Ahmed Usmani. Imam Zafar Ahmad Uthmani was one of the greatest hadith experts of the 20th Century. His 18-volume work I'la' al-Sunan, of which this work is the final chapter, is widely regarded as one of the very best presentations of the legal reasoning and proofs of the Hanafi school of Islamic law. http://www31.brinkster.com/ak4thanvi...r_ahmed_us.htm Tafseer-e-Usmani. http://www.ahsanmedia.com/IslamicStu...seer_e_Usmani/ Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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07-06-2007, 12:20 PM	#36
Unlopssesuj Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 499 Senior Member	Jazakumullah Khair Why do all of them have Usmani in their names tho? were they graduates of the same madrasa? were they all family? Also its Mufti Shafi Usmani innit? And I know his son is Mufti Taqi Usmani d.b. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

07-06-2007, 12:38 PM	#37
juliannamed Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 498 Senior Member	Jazakumullah Khair Why do all of them have Usmani in their names tho? were they graduates of the same madrasa? were they all family? Also its Mufti Shafi Usmani innit? And I know his son is Mufti Taqi Usmani d.b. Because they are descendants of the 3rd Khalifa Hazrat Usman r.a, thats why they are called Usmani. Only Hazrat Thanvi and Allamah Zafar Ahmed were related, not others. He was nephew of Hazrat Thanvi. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

01-02-2009, 11:58 PM	#38
RichardFG435 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 424 Senior Member	for the very useful informations Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

06-08-2012, 10:47 PM	#39
EHjEjdqe Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 481 Senior Member	It maybe true that Jinnah was a secular liberal at one point in his life BUT there is no doubt he died as a pious sunni muslim. There is a lot of ignorance and lies being spread. Pakistan movement was for the creation of not only a Muslim country BUT as a stepping stone for the next Caliphate. It was made on the theories of Allama Iqbal who wanted to revive the Caliphate and his idea was to create a powerful country for Muslims with a powerful army that can build the Caliphate. The ulema who were against Jinnah and Pakistan were the congressi mullah who enjoyed life with the hindus and were fully supported and backed by them just like the TTP today. Maulana Shabbir Ahmad Usmani who was against Jinnah at first joined Jinnah later after a dream where he saw prohet Muhammad PBUH pointing to Jinnah and saying to Maulana that Jinnah is my mujahid and never go against him. If Pakistan wasnt made today muslims would have been oppressed by the Hindus and would have been butchered by them. Ofcourse the corrupt leaders took over the country after and Iqbals dream has not been achieved, BUT the hardest part of establishing Pakistan has been achieved now the next steps would be easy to be achieved, which is to bring back the leadership of Jinnah and muslim league and then call all muslim countries for an establishment of Caliphate. Why do you think the Amercians are so interested in Pakistans affairs and back all corrupt parties, because once a pious leader comes to power he can very easily establish a caliphate with all the power in pakistan. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote