[tabcdyop]

The following is quoted from the book "Eminent Ulema" published by Madrasah Arabia Islamia, Azaadville, on page 159 under the biography of Mufti Muhammed Shafi (RA)

"Besides his literary and religious endeavours, he also served the nation in the political arena. At the indication of Hazrath Thanwi (RA), he played a major role in the independence of Pakistan by openly supporting the Muslim League. Hazrath Thanwi (RA) chose him amongst other Ulema to reform and spiritually rectify the leaders of the Muslim League like Muhammed Ali Jinnah and others."

I suppose all the ulema mentioned so far played a significant role in the formation of Pakistan. Also I faintly remember reading somewhere that a Mufti (cant remember name) raised the national flag of Pakistan during the independance ceremony in East Pakistan (present Bangladesh)

We all know Bangladesh is just another vassal of India...

[genna]

i did not intend bringing up the subject of Bangladesh into this.

the independence ceremony referred to is that of the original Pakistan in 1947. Not of the formation of Bangladesh. The new national flag is supposed to have been hoisted at both east and west Pakistan (both a single country at that time) at the same time, and the said Mufthi raised the national flag in East Pakistan, while Jinnah was present in West Pakistan. This is only a faint recollection of something i read sometime ago. If i find it again will post here.

[genna]

brother abdul_ahad, a_muslim and unknown for your responses. I look into the book "The Prisoners Of Malta". Were there any Doebandi Ulemah who played any significant role in the creation of Pakistan?

your question prompted me to go through the book i mentioned before. Here are some more ulema who supported the formation of Pakistan in addition to those mentioned so far. From what is mentioned in the book, it appears that all of them not only supported but have played a very active role in the formation of Pakistan.

Mufti Muhammed Hasan Amritsari (RA)
Moulana Athar Ali Silhati (RA)
Moulana Zafar Ahmed Uthmai (RA)
Moulana Shabbir Ali Thanwi (RA)
Moulana Shamsul Haq Faridpuri (RA)

[tabcdyop]

On the other hand did any ulama support the formation of Bangladesh...

[cbUDaNFRu]

brother abdul_ahad, a_muslim and unknown for your responses. I look into the book "The Prisoners Of Malta". Were there any Doebandi Ulemah who played any significant role in the creation of Pakistan?

Please do get that book, you will get a glimpse of the greatness of two of the most ardent lovers of Rasoolullah and the Ummah of Rasoolullah that India has seen in the last 1/2 centuries.

As for your question, just to add to what bro abdul_ahad said, the book which he quoted ("Eminent Ulama") also says that in reality the existence of Pakistan was, after Muhammad Ali Jinnah, due to the efforts of Allama Shabber Ahmad Uthmani and Shaykh Zafar Ahmad Uthmani . As far as I know, besides them two, Sayyid Sulayman Nadwi, Mufti Shafi Uthmani and Mawlana Shabbeer Ali Thanwi also played very very significant roles in Pakistan's creation. BTW, all of the above (rahimahumullah), besides Allamah Shabbeer Uthmani, were khalifahs (in tasawwuf) of Hakeem al-Ummah

Also, Mufti Shafi Uthmani gives the impression in that interview that one of the main reasons why Pakistan never became a proper Islamic country how the Ulama would have wanted is the demise of Allamah Shabbeer Ahmad Uthmani

[enencephoth]

i dont know about ulema position, but i know of the reality position. pakistan was created under a LIE. the name of "islam" and "muslims" was used to create this state. but who did that?? it was a rafidhi named Mohammad ali jinnah. he used islam for his own political agendas. he wasnt even an islamist or believer, he considered Ataturk as a hero. ever since the cration of pakistan, shias have continued to rule over it. PPP and PML are both shia parties, founded by shias. musa khan, yahya khan, benzir bhutto, zulfiqur bhutto, zardari, jinnah, all are shias. and what have they done?? they have waged war against sunnis. they waged war in bengal, waged war in baloch, and today they wage war in NWFP and FATA. muslims like to make conspiracy theories that jews control america. well, that is is only a conspiracy theory. but it is FACT (although never made public) that shias control pakistan, syria and lebanon.

Is Barelvism being labelled as Shiaism? Is the Mulla excluding the Sufi from the fold of Islam? Pakistan is a Sufi Movement founded by Mujadid-i-Alf Thani; Bangladesh is a blasphemy against this movement for unity of the Muslim world. Only those Deobandi Ulema would favour Pakistan who have a Sufi orientation.

[Nypbscao]

Why the animosity towards Bangladesh? After all West Pakistan did take advantage of East economically, politically and militarily. Personally I hate nationalism whether it be Pakistanis or Bangalis, but then again I think it human nature to be divisive.

For the brothers who gave responses, I will look further into the Ulemah mentioned on this thread.

[autoloanexpert]

Could someone please give me a list of scholars who support the creation of an Islamic state today?

[Agehoobionibe]

Could someone please give me a list of scholars who support the creation of an Islamic state today?

Why are you so obsessed with " Islamic state " ? A state needs a strong military for protection.
There is no Islamic military armed with the advanced weapons equal or better than the weapons of kuffar. So , why the ulama will support the Utopia of Islamic state ?

Which comes first ? Chicken or egg ?

[autoloanexpert]

Why are you so obsessed with " Islamic state " ?[...]

Because it's an obligation on the Muslims.

[...]A state needs a strong military for protection.
There is no Islamic military armed with the advanced weapons equal or better than the weapons of kuffar.[...]

If we are true believers we can count on the help of Allāh. Who is stronger, the creation or the Creator? (Of course, the Creator!)

[...] So , why the ulama will support the Utopia of Islamic state ?[...]

Utopia? Have you not heard the promise of Allāh and His Messenger ?

[...]Which comes first ? Chicken or egg ?

Allāh Most High says "kun" and then the thing exists. Your question is philosophical non-sense.

[smazibummigue]

I'm not expert on the subject, but I've heard that the only reason Mufti Shafi and Allamah Shabir Uthmani worked with the Muslim League was because they realized that Pakistan was going to become a reality, and they wanted to set a precedent for the state that Islam and the Ulema would have a role in it.

I've also heard that Allamah Shabbir prayed Janazah over Jinnah to cement the position of Islam in Pakistan.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on the matter could confirm or deny these things.

[Mimsykzr]

Because it's an obligation on the Muslims.


If we are true believers we can count on the help of Allāh. Who is stronger, the creation or the Creator? (Of course, the Creator!)


Utopia? Have you not heard the promise of Allāh and His Messenger ?


Allāh Most High says "kun" and then the thing exists. Your question is philosophical non-sense.

Salam. May Allah give you opportunity to sit with the Sufi scholars and learn Deeni knowledge from them. You are expecting Qudrot ( Miracle , Divine help ) to make the Muslims victorious. But , there
are some preconditions which need to be satisfied in order to get the army of angels on the battlefield. Read the story of Zalut and Talut in the Quran. Prophet David (AH ) is the son-in-law of Talut.

Regarding the military weapons , I have seen one verse in the Quran.

[enencephoth]

Why the animosity towards Bangladesh? After all West Pakistan did take advantage of East economically, politically and militarily. Personally I hate nationalism whether it be Pakistanis or Bangalis, but then again I think it human nature to be divisive.

For the brothers who gave responses, I will look further into the Ulemah mentioned on this thread.

Pakistan was the result of the idea that 'Muslims are a single, separate nation', but the name 'Bengladesh' itself suggests that the East Pakistanis were too Indianised to accept what would essentially be an Arabicised society in its final shape from Morocco to Indonesia. It is Bengladesh that is divisiveness embodied (or rather politicized) in that it divided itself from the pan-Islamic legacy of Muhammad Ali Jauhar and the Khilafat Movement called PAKISTAN; Pakistan on the other hand is all about unity of the Muslims as a single separate nation.

[Mimsykzr]

Pakistan on the other hand is all about unity of the Muslims as a single separate nation.

Ah ! Pakistan ! The sigh of broken hearts and defiled flowers still haunt us !!

-------------------------
http://theheartopener.wordpress.com/...amic-republic/

Such is the love for Islam that Islam is discovered by this countrys elite only when US Dollars are required or the elite is under threat !

One may challenge anyone to discover where is Islam in this piece of land and where is the republic !
---------------------

Some people need a century to wake up from the sleep.

[zlopikanikanz]

Pakistan was the result of the idea that 'Muslims are a single, separate nation', but the name 'Bengladesh' itself suggests that the East Pakistanis were too Indianised

pakistan seems to be more Hindustanised.(Indianised)

desh means in bangla langauge "Land". Bangladesh means Bangla land. The way Pakistan is urdu word, Desh is a bangla word. People should call their motherland name intheir mother lanauge or foreign language bro?

and about Indianised? other than Islam, pakistan and Bangladesh(langauge,food,dressing, "music ") everything is Indian.

to accept what would essentially be an Arabicised society in its final shape from Morocco to Indonesia.

Pakistan couldnt even fix a language for their own country and they were forcing "urdu"(not even arabic) as official langauge of bangladesh(east pakistan)!!! at that time there was proposal from east pakistan personalities like sir salimullah khan who wanted to put arabic as nations langauge, but no step were taken by the so called goverment of "pakistan/west pakistan".

Pakistan on the other hand is all about unity of the Muslims as a single separate nation.

they should have work for unity by giving peoples right and act as Islam says and not act upon the order of those ex military dictators.

The game was going good unitl west pakistan lost their brain(by letting army generals to rule the country) and lost the brotherhood of their own home, as a result enemy enter in the room and devided the room.

[tabcdyop]

Lets not forget brother abulayl that most of the early presidents and prime ministers of Pakistan were bengalis.

You know how the old saying goes, give these people an inch and they want a foot, give them a foot, and they want an acre...

[zlopikanikanz]

Lets not forget brother abulayl that most of the early presidents and prime ministers of Pakistan were bengalis.

East pakistan never had any own goverment(though election take place and no power has been given, which caused more anger among east pakistanis). and other than that west pakistan can have 1000 of ministers who were bangali.

and president of what(bengalis doesnt mean bangladeshis , because a big part of india is also known as bengal)?

If you refer to Iskander Mirza , then he was from India(murshidabad).

You know how the old saying goes, give these people an inch and they want a foot, give them a foot, and they want an acre...

yes, east pakistanis were asking for zakat from west pakistanis. It tells us who were rich and who were poor in the name of one nation and Islam. Just because of such "old saying" people became corrupt and instead sharing half-half the plate, they wanted to make other happy by giving one inch and pleasing ownself by keeping the rest-whole.After giving the one inch if anyone asked more,they would say heyy why you want a foot more!

Pakistan wasnt created for giving one inch or one foot. But for Half-Half share. since the day "one inch-one foot" problem araised, the border was on the way of its own creation betwen west pakistan and east pakistan.

[patuvammnogoo]

Why are you so obsessed with " Islamic state " ? A state needs a strong military for protection.
There is no Islamic military armed with the advanced weapons equal or better than the weapons of kuffar. So , why the ulama will support the Utopia of Islamic state ?

Which comes first ? Chicken or egg ?

Bro, you HAVE to be obsessed with the Islamic State. It is the Islamic state that removes injustice and poverty. It is the Islamic state that looks after the deaf, the dumb, the blind, the elderly, the women, the orphans, the ones who cry because of helplessness and weakness. Everytime I look at a report of domestic abuse or kidnapping or rape or murder, I think 'this probably would not have happened had this place ruled by Sharia'.

Regarding a state needing a strong military for protection- all they need is strong imaan,

Anyway, I reckon we won't get one anytime soon in Pakistan for precisely that reason- we are failures as people.

With regards to the thread- why start a beef with regards to the Pakistan/Bangladesh thing? It happened, get over it. We got better things to be worrying about

[Agedprepdoock]

Pakistan was the result of the idea that 'Muslims are a single, separate nation', but the name 'Bengladesh' itself suggests that the East Pakistanis were too Indianised to accept what would essentially be an Arabicised society in its final shape from Morocco to Indonesia. It is Bengladesh that is divisiveness embodied (or rather politicized) in that it divided itself from the pan-Islamic legacy of Muhammad Ali Jauhar and the Khilafat Movement called PAKISTAN; Pakistan on the other hand is all about unity of the Muslims as a single separate nation.

you are talking a whole lot of bull... everything you've said in this thread is from the ultra-nationalist pak point of view. the same POV of the military, PPP and PML. the same sort of racism that has killed millions in bengal, thousands in baloch, and now thousands in NWFP and FATA. and for what?? they werent "pakistani" enough for you? cuz they spoke a different language, had a different culture?

pashto, balochi, bengali just arent up to the level of your "arabisized" pakistani, whatever the heck thats even supposed to mean. i know exactly which ideology you are of. and ive seen many people like that. people who are complete delusional.

aside from that, i agree with everything brother Abulayl said. someone who actually knows some history and sense. keep exposing these ultra-nationalist and fascist minded people.

[Veronnisa]

AssalamuAlaikum,

Well, a year on from graduating from a system of education that has a tad too many "Maccaulay" touches to it, I have, Alhamdulillah, reflected for a long time on what was taught to us in the name of "Pakistan Studies" and "History" throughout our classes. Naturally, history is tainted with the perspective of the teller - But the only version of history that is worth acknowledging is that which is narrated on the solid bases of the Shariah (See Islam and The World by Maulana Abul Hassan Ali Nadvi).

The Deoband Scholars did not, as a whole, take an active role in the Pakistan movement. It was in the end, as the brother says, when they realized that the new state was about to form, that they stepped in to make sure, Islam did play some role in the supposed slogan of "Pakistan Ka Matlab Kiya - La Ilaha Illallah". 65 years on, I, for one, have grown very opposed to the idea to begin with. I personally think, in my worthless opinion, that the Britishers played their last card with Jinnah - mixed nationalism and Islam - and the poor masses got duped. I know Maulana Maududi Marhoom is heavily derided on this forum, and indeed any Muslim who errs should indeed be corrected and the people warned of his deviation - however, it is also unbecoming of a Muslim not to give credit where it's due.

Set aside all patriotic notions and read what Maulana Sahib said before the creation of Pakistan:

” Who are the Muslims you are claiming to be a separate nation? Here, the crowd called Muslims is full of all sorts of rabble. There are as many types of characters in this as in any (other) heathen people”. (Vol. III, P.166)

“If you survey this so-called Muslim society, you will come across multifarious types of Muslims, of countless categories. This is a zoo with a collection of crows, kites, vultures, partridges and thousands of other types of birds. Every one of them is a ‘sparrow’. (Ibid. P.31)

“Pity! From League’s Quaid-e-Azam down to the lower cadres, there is not a single person who has an Islamic outlook and thinking and whose perspective on matters is Islamic“. (Ibid. P.37)

“To pronounce these people fit for leading Muslims for the simple reason that they are experts of Western type politics and masters of Western organizational arts, and are deeply in love with their people, is a manifestation of an unislamic viewpoint and reflects ignorance of Islam”. (Ibid. P.70)

“Even with a microscopic study of their practical life, and their thinking, ideology, political behaviour and style of leadership, one can find not a trace of Islamic character.”

“In no Muslim League resolution, or in a speech by a responsible leader of the League it has it been made clear that their final goal is of establishing an Islamic system of government. Those who believe that by freeing Muslim majority areas rule of Hindu majority, an Islamic government will be established here in a democratic set up, are wrong. In fact w“In no Muslim League resolution, or in a speech by a responsible leader of the League it has it been made clear that their final goal is of establishing an Islamic system of government. Those who believe that by freeing Muslim majority areas rule of Hindu majority, an Islamic government will be established here in a democratic set up, are wrong. In fact what will be achieved will be a heretical government by Muslims, indeed worse than that.” (Ibid. P.130-32) .” (Ibid. P.130-32)

To me - it seems that nationalism was raised in an Islamic flavour and the masses responded. Even now, in this Pakistan, Islam is basically restricted to the Mosques. The Quran and Sunnah have no legal role or value - they are not legal evidences in the courts or the parliament. The Trade Law, Legislative Law, Economic Law, Political Law, Educational Law and Foreign Policy are all dictated under the British Laws.


Nationalism is nullified by our basic precept of being a Muslim - The Aqeedah of Wala and Bara - anyway. May Allah (S.W.T) Grant us strength to uplift our spiritual selves and to DO something for this Ummah. Oh Allah! Accept this generation for the work of your Deen.

And Allah (S.W.T) Knows Best!