[zenihan]

Asslamo Allaikum,

With the advent of “Halal KFC” in the UK, British Muslims are rightly confused over which organisation to believe and trust while ordering their “Finger-Lickin-Good” Buffalo wings, the same issue opens up from time to time over Nandos so here is my humble understanding of their respective stances:

1) HMC (Halal Monitoring Committee): Backed by Islamic scholars who routinely monitor and inspect the establishments engaged in Halal Meat business:

a. Mechanical slaughter of chicken: Not allowed
b. Stunning: Not allowed
c. Bismillah read personally by manual slaughterman on every animal: Necessary
d. Inspector on site at time of slaughter: Yes
e. Outlets checked regularly: Yes

2) HFA (Halal Food Authority): The HFA licenses slaughterhouses, distribution centres, retailers and providers of meat and poultry for human consumption. These licenses are granted on an annual and contractual basis. The HFA inspectors are there to audit and monitor compliance of both Islamic laws and MAFF and EC regulations of slaughter.

a. Mechanical slaughter of chicken: Allowed
b. Stunning: Allowed
c. Bismillah read personally by manual slaughterman on every animal: Not Necessary
(as machine slaughter allowed so no manual slaughterman)
d. Inspector on site at time of slaughter: No
e. Outlets checked regularly: No

Problem: No idea who the scholars are behind this organisation and when contacted and enquired, actively dismissed the roll of scholars in its functioning.

3) Halal Food Guide (Mufti Abduallah Patel, http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/index.php): An online Fatwa portal with good research and contacts.

a. Stunning: Accept that its Makruh-Tahreemi but still allow it
http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/in...uestion&id=161

Problem: An online Fatwa portal with good following but their support of stunning although correct “Academically” but in practical terms provides a backdoor for those who use it.

4) Mufti Yusuf Sacha: A leading British Mufti who has been active on Halal Food front for over a decade.

a. Stunning: Allow the practise
http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/in...uestion&id=161

Problem: Those who practise stunning stick to Mufti Saheb’s opinion and consider it absolutely legitimate! Random inspections are often not carried out and certificates renewed by post after the initial inspection, service has been on decline and Mufti Yusuf Sacha states that he is too busy with other projects.

5) Mufti Taqi Usmani: A leading Hanafi Faqih

a. Stunning: If the animal is alive (before slaughter) permits it but warns Muslims to avoid this practise and meat produced thereby

http://salim7860.tripod.com/id1.html

6) Mufti Ibraheem Desai: A leading Hanafi Faqih from South Africa

a. Stunning: Much more aggressive stance on condemning stunning as a practise but agree with Mufti Taqi Usmani that if the animal is alive (before slaughter), it will be permissible to consume

http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...3424a0278524eb

http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...daf0f2271d778a

7) 40 of the country’s top Islamic scholars a UK unanimously reject Machine Slaughter

8) BONUS: Detailed refutation of those consider commerically available super-market meat HALAL

[plantBanceper]

WoW u r back... I m really happy to see u...

[grattperret]

You seem to have made an accurate assesment. What do you suggest?.

[spounnypneups]

Salam

Knowing the scholars who are on the HMC board, i only eat meat certified by HMC. I know personally some of the scholars who run the organisation, and the level of strictness in ensuring that the meat is slaughtered according to the Shariah is very high.
As for HFA, as brother Muadh has clearly pointed out, they allow mechanical slaughter and have a person who reads Bismillah. Admitted by one of their own personnel, Bismillah is not read on every chicken as it is impossible for the person to keep up with the machine. As halal food is extremely important, i recommend brothers to stick with HMC.

Wasalam

[Hankie]

Welcome back Sidi Muadh, what a good news!

The (un)official Muadh Khan fans club. ;-)))

[Metalhead]

Welcome Back Br. Muadh,

HMC

[zenihan]

Brothers,

I do stupid things sometimes

Anyways back to the subject...This was just an assessment and I just wanted to make sure that I have understood all of them and their criteria correctly and accurately.

[wizardasa]

Assalamualaykum Brother Muadh

Nice to have you back. Where is this 'halal' KFC bro that you are talking about?

Also bro there is a matter i need to talk to you about privately. could you please give me ur email or number as it concerns a visit to your masjid.

jazakallah

[zenihan]

Assalamualaykum Brother Muadh

Nice to have you back. Where is this 'halal' KFC bro that you are talking about?

Also bro there is a matter i need to talk to you about privately. could you please give me ur email or number as it concerns a visit to your masjid.

jazakallah

W-Salam,

brother

I am waiting for an answer on KFC issue, before opening a thread.

Please email me on http://www.central-mosque.com

[FelikTen]

SubhanAllah - brother Muadh is back.

[dhYTvlAv]

Asslamo Allaikum,

With the advent of “Halal KFC” in the UK, British Muslims are rightly confused over which organisation to believe and trust while ordering their “Finger-Lickin-Good” Buffalo wings, the same issue opens up from time to time over Nandos so here is my humble understanding of their respective stances:

1) HMC (Halal Monitoring Committee): Backed by Islamic scholars who routinely monitor and inspect the establishments engaged in Halal Meat business:

a. Mechanical slaughter of chicken: Not allowed
b. Stunning: Not allowed
c. Bismillah read personally by manual slaughterman on every animal: Necessary
d. Inspector on site at time of slaughter: Yes
e. Outlets checked regularly: Yes

http://www.halalmc.net/news_events/h.../05-05-09.html

Problem: As discussed during Islam Channel debates, doesn’t reveal its scholars (although they exist and a Maulana represented them on Islam channel) and its financial records.

2) HFA (Halal Food Authority): The HFA licenses slaughterhouses, distribution centres, retailers and providers of meat and poultry for human consumption. These licenses are granted on an annual and contractual basis. The HFA inspectors are there to audit and monitor compliance of both Islamic laws and MAFF and EC regulations of slaughter.

a. Mechanical slaughter of chicken: Allowed
b. Stunning: Allowed
c. Bismillah read personally by manual slaughterman on every animal: Not Necessary
(as machine slaughter allowed so no manual slaughterman)
d. Inspector on site at time of slaughter: No
e. Outlets checked regularly: No

Problem: No idea who the scholars are behind this organisation and when contacted and enquired, actively dismissed the roll of scholars in its functioning.

3) Halal Food Guide (Mufti Abduallah Patel, http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/index.php): An online Fatwa portal with good research and contacts.

a. Stunning: Accept that its Makruh-Tahreemi but still allow it
http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/in...uestion&id=161

Problem: An online Fatwa portal with good following but their support of stunning although correct “Academically” but in practical terms provides a backdoor for those who use it.

4) Mufti Yusuf Sacha: A leading British Mufti who has been active on Halal Food front for over a decade.

a. Stunning: Allow the practise
http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/in...uestion&id=161

Problem: Those who practise stunning stick to Mufti Saheb’s opinion and consider it absolutely legitimate! Random inspections are often not carried out and certificates renewed by post after the initial inspection, service has been on decline and Mufti Yusuf Sacha states that he is too busy with other projects.

5) Mufti Taqi Usmani: A leading Hanafi Faqih

a. Stunning: If the animal is alive (before slaughter) permits it but warns Muslims to avoid this practise and meat produced thereby

http://salim7860.tripod.com/id1.html

6) Mufti Ibraheem Desai: A leading Hanafi Faqih from South Africa

a. Stunning: Much more aggressive stance on condemning stunning as a practise but agree with Mufti Taqi Usmani that if the animal is alive (before slaughter), it will be permissible to consume

http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...3424a0278524eb

http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...daf0f2271d778a

it seems muadh bhai has been quite busy and productive since he was banned. maybe he should be banned more often

anyway its good to see the 'peoples moderator' is back.

i have an issue with one of the groups you mentioned above. i will refrain from mentioning the name as i suspect my post will be deleted.

a little while ago i was involved in the food production industry. during the course of my job i realised a competitor carried a halal certified logo on one of its products which i knew was bought in from a different company and not produced by themselves. so i called the food company to ask if this product was checked by the halal authority, the manager replied this has nothing to do with us and told me to call the halal authority. i called the halal authority and asked if the product which was being bought from outside is monitored, and got the reply 'how am i supposed to know'.

this is basically the gist of the convo, as regards to the attitude of both the company and the halal authority, both left a lot to be desired.

i know a lot of people on sunni forum dont want to hear about this kind of stuff. if your one of them then just ignore my post.

[zenihan]

it seems muadh bhai has been quite busy and productive since he was banned. maybe he should be banned more often

anyway its good to see the 'peoples moderator' is back.

i have an issue with one of the groups you mentioned above. i will refrain from mentioning the name as i suspect my post will be deleted.

a little while ago i was involved in the food production industry. during the course of my job i realised a competitor carried a halal certified logo on one of its products which i knew was bought in from a different company and not produced by themselves. so i called the food company to ask if this product was checked by the halal authority, the manager replied this has nothing to do with us and told me to call the halal authority. i called the halal authority and asked if the product which was being bought from outside is monitored, and got the reply 'how am i supposed to know'.

this is basically the gist of the convo, as regards to the attitude of both the company and the halal authority, both left a lot to be desired.

i know a lot of people on sunni forum dont want to hear about this kind of stuff. if your one of them then just ignore my post.

Brother,

I missed you two, man!

[Mifsnavassy]

Honestly, I found it easier to know what was halal and what wasn't back when I'd go grocery shopping with my mom and we'd actually read the ingredients, or when we'd phone a franchise and ask the questions personally. In South Africa I find there are way too many organizations like SANHA, NHIT, MJC etc that certify places for being halal.

Out of curiousity, in the UK, if an organization certifies a restaurant like KFC to be halal, do they keep the certificate in public where it can be read by anyone? At a nearby mall, there was a KFC that had a certificate with requirements, and one of the requirements was that at all times there would be a Muslim in the kitchens. Unfortunately, that requirement was not being met so my husband and I stopped going there. Even closer to our house (about five mins away) is another KFC that is certified halal by an organization, yet requirements are not being met once again. It's really hard to know who to trust.

[appleiphoneees]

Simple solutions:

1) Stick to HMC as it's guaranteed halal according to Shariah. No shortcuts. It amazes me that muslims are still dragging their heels on HMC when they fulfill ALL the criteria.

2) Just buy chickens yourself at the slaughterhouse and do zabah yourselves. That way there is no dispute. Unless you're squeamish about flapping wings and blood of course!

[appleiphoneees]

There was an interesting debate recently on Islam Channel on this very issue and it was clear HMC put forward the best case but there was still confusion amongst muslims which is frustrating.

The MCB were put on the spot regards where they stand on this issue and it looks like from the debate they would be happy to endorse HMC as the "seal of halal".

If they do so, it will be a massive step forward for muslims on the issue of halal in the UK.

A discussion some time back on here with Mufti Saheb regards stunning was interesting too.

[paydayloanfasters]

There were two recent programs on Islam Channel TV on Halal Certifying with both HMC and HFA (as well as the MCB).

The 1st one was a panel "BBC Question Time" type discussion with an audience and with HMC (Br Fauz Mulla) , HFA (Br Masood Kwaja) , the brother from some Science Division/Org (cant remember his name - he's also pro stunning), a MCB Food Panel representative and Shaykh Suliman Ghani who supported HMC. MCB was leaning much towards HMC on the non stunning side. MCB currently have some work/guidance being worked on Halal Certifying in the UK which far as i recall he stated is non-stunning. (the last section of this program is on Youtube)

The 2nd one was called "Behind Closed Doors" as its not done infront of an audience like the first discussion - this had HMC, HFA, MCB and an independent Barrister for legal advice. HMC (Chairman Shaykh Yunus Dudhwala) stated they have 9-10 scholars on their ulama board. The HFA also mentioned their ulama which were totalling three.

Far as remember from the 2nd program both Shaykh Yunus and Br Masood (of the HFA - i think they only have a handle of staff for the entire HFA compared to HMC's approx 90) stated on the 2nd program that they will, after the program, ensure the names of their scholars are placed on their respective websites.

Wrt stunning my own personal view would be for HMC to have an open minded discussion/research on it with the likes of SANHA and Mufti Sacha. The benefit of HMC and GMWA working more closer together with the knowledge/research of Mufti Sacha and Muti Abdullah (on other foods besides meats) together with the structure and size of HMC would make a strong more overarching body certifying slaughterhoues, take aways, snacks, drinks, sweets, confectionery etc etc in short as many things as possible.

However it should be noted that (far as i know) GMWA is Hanafi/Deobandi whereas HMC, far as i know, has representation from other groups also. So on issues like say the tiny amounts of trace alcohol found in some foods i think GMWA would deem it permissbale though HMC might not (if they were to start certifying such products)

The issue discussed by brother xs11ax he has already mentioned fully on another previous thread - use the search option to find it.

[zenihan]

Asslamo Allaikum,

This is what I was after...

[7kitthuptarill]

Assalam O Alaikum

This is a old histroy for us in USA. The first Muslim owned KFC was opened in Lombart, IL a suburb of Chicago in 2003. Here are some Alerts from our website www.muslimconsumergroup.com regarding Muslim owned KFC outlet:

Event Date Title
05-07-2006 KFC ORIGINAL RECIPE CHICKEN IS MADE WITH COLONEL'S SECRET SEASONING WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT CONTAIN HARAM INGREDIENTS, KFC GREAN BEANS CONTAIN BACON IN SOME STORES
09-09-2005 ISNA FAILS AGAIN IN PROVIDING HALAL FOOD PRODUCTS AT THEIR CONVENTION IN CHICAGO
09-03-2003 MACHINE SLAUGHTERED KFC CHICKEN AT ISNA CONVENTION
08-10-2003 KFC CHICKENS AT LOMBARD, IL STORE ARE NOT HALAL ACCORDING TO MCG’S ZABIHA CRITERIA

Gold Kist a Atlanta based company supplied the machine slaughtered chicken not only in USA but also at KFC stores in Saudi Arabia. 14o chicken are machine slaughtered every minute. A Muslim mechanic br. Mohammed say Bismillah on the machines, he is the employee of Gold Kist company. There was a debate about it in 2003 and even at www.zabihah.com.

But many Muslims avoid it and many Muslims still consumed it and now there are 3-4 Halal KFC in Chicago area.

I met with HMC people in London during a Halal food show in 2005, we both have booths at the show. Br. Khaja was also there, he wrote me for cooperation. But I am very happy to see HMC doing a great job in UK and also in Canada and I agree 100% with their sharia rules.

One thing you guys missing in UK, is there any body know the food coating on the chicken whether it is Halal or not. Did anybody reserach it or not becauce there is a secret formula for the coating as it was reported on our web in 2006. Unless some one know the Halal status of food coating, even if the chicken are not stunned and hand slaughtered, the KFC chicken will be Haram if they use Haram food ingredients in coating.

The second thing missing was chicken feed, in USA some chicken suppliers used the vegetable feed and some use animal protein based feed. But I do not know in UK.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group for Food products
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

[zenihan]

Assalam O Alaikum

This is a old histroy for us in USA. The first Muslim owned KFC was opened in Lombart, IL a suburb of Chicago in 2003. Here are some Alerts from our website www.muslimconsumergroup.com regarding Muslim owned KFC outlet:

Event Date Title
05-07-2006 KFC ORIGINAL RECIPE CHICKEN IS MADE WITH COLONEL'S SECRET SEASONING WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT CONTAIN HARAM INGREDIENTS, KFC GREAN BEANS CONTAIN BACON IN SOME STORES
09-09-2005 ISNA FAILS AGAIN IN PROVIDING HALAL FOOD PRODUCTS AT THEIR CONVENTION IN CHICAGO
09-03-2003 MACHINE SLAUGHTERED KFC CHICKEN AT ISNA CONVENTION
08-10-2003 KFC CHICKENS AT LOMBARD, IL STORE ARE NOT HALAL ACCORDING TO MCG’S ZABIHA CRITERIA

Gold Kist a Atlanta based company supplied the machine slaughtered chicken not only in USA but also at KFC stores in Saudi Arabia. 14o chicken are machine slaughtered every minute. A Muslim mechanic br. Mohammed say Bismillah on the machines, he is the employee of Gold Kist company. There was a debate about it in 2003 and even at www.zabihah.com.

But many Muslims avoid it and many Muslims still consumed it and now there are 3-4 Halal KFC in Chicago area.

I met with HMC people in London during a Halal food show in 2005, we both have booths at the show. Br. Khaja was also there, he wrote me for cooperation. But I am very happy to see HMC doing a great job in UK and also in Canada and I agree 100% with their sharia rules.

One thing you guys missing in UK, is there any body know the food coating on the chicken whether it is Halal or not. Did anybody reserach it or not becauce there is a secret formula for the coating as it was reported on our web in 2006. Unless some one know the Halal status of food coating, even if the chicken are not stunned and hand slaughtered, the KFC chicken will be Haram if they use Haram food ingredients in coating.

The second thing missing was chicken feed, in USA some chicken suppliers used the vegetable feed and some use animal protein based feed. But I do not know in UK.

Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group for Food products
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com

W-Salam Br Rasheed,

Sorry to take the thread in anothr direction but can you clarify and define your judgement on Taco Bell (Sauces and other products) from your web-site.

[7kitthuptarill]

Assalam O Alaikum Br. Khan,

We have given Halal status on different ingredients used in different Taco Bell products based on their sources. For example the sour cream is not Halal in USA & Canada. I do not know what ingredients they use in UK. I am also updating the Taco Bell's ingredients. We generally recommend Muslims in USA to avoid going to Taco Bell because main ingredients such as cheese, sour cream and main sauces are not Halal.


Syed Rasheeduddin Ahmed
Muslim Consumer Group for Food Products
www.muslimconsumergroup.com
www.canadianhalalfoods.com