[tattcasetle]

i know imaan is important, but what practical steps are needed?

[tattcasetle]

sister I meant practical in terms of political solutions. I know we need to reactify ourselves deen wise but we also need to make some changes, i wondered what people thought? I think get rid of people like Assad from syria, create a common bloc of sunni muslim nations like egypt, turkey, saudi, indonesia, tunisia etc, build a unified econonmy, military etc, have an EU style alliance inshAllah. WHat do you guys think?

[risyGreeple]

A unified organization of all the Muslim countries under one banner, unlike the OIC. The organization must always and always think to co-operate with any of its member states and in any of the member states with its army. The foremost reason for co-operation must be Islam/Iman. There must be no co-operation with any Non-Muslim states against any Member states. The organization must have its own private domain and weapon trade, as well as nuclear policies! No foreign intervention from any Non Muslim country.

There must be strict shariah implemented in all the member states and shariah compliance correspondence must be done between the countries so as to effectively deal with changing demands in political system.

[Esmeralfaf]

Only solution is to bring oneself and others on deen.

[Acciblyfluila]

Only solution is to bring oneself and others on deen.

alhamdulillah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxAo5ki-2RU

[WumibBesowe]

اَلسَّلَامُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَا تُهُ

I think that if we exert ourselves in practising the sharee'ah, the rest will likely follow. But the first step must be practising and propagating. And Allah truly knows best.

[GoblinGaga]

i guess only the very few could explain it as Hazrat Maulana Syed Abul Hasan Ali Hasani Nadwi

i have little time.. may be bro Fusoos or someone can help translate.. in advance..




duas..

wa assalam..

[tattcasetle]

I agree that we need imaan but we also need laser guided missiles and advanced tactical fighters, plans for water shortages and development of the muslim world in science and engineering inshAllah, we need drugs factories and space shuttles, air defenses and tank factories, plans for reversing desertification, alternative energy sources, political solutions to the current political mess we're in in terms of internal policies within the ummah and external policies for dealing with interfering foreign governments, economic plans for weaning our nations off of haraam sources of income and economic systems, military strategies for defending our nations against further invasions etc.

We cant just say we need imaan and neglect any worldly plans, they need to be developed in tandom inshAllah. Did the prophet SAW sit back and say lets just pray 5 times a day and Allah will grant victory and protect madinah? he dug trenches, built armies, prepared his troops, he said archery is stregnth, he would deceive his enemies by giving our false info, he made a peace treaty with quraish and the jews, he made practical plans aswell as reliance on Allah and we should do the same inshAllah, its just a question of what are the most realistic short term steps we can take

[bugagasikaga]

Most of the brothers and sisters are missing the OP intention. This shows our close mindedness

[diplmixxxx]

brother David you are correct. But the major problem is dividation in ummat Muslim. People from one group would not take leaders from another group. We are very much divided among ourselves and that is the major problem, once we get together no one would be able to harass us.

[tattcasetle]

brother David you are correct. But the major problem is dividation in ummat Muslim. People from one group would not take leaders from another group. We are very much divided among ourselves and that is the major problem, once we get together no one would be able to harass us.

its true but that need not be an obstacle. Arabs can have an arab leader, pakistanis can have a pakistani leader, banglis4bangalis, indonesians4indonesians etc and have a level of cooperation amongst them whilst also having development plans for each individual nation. some muslim nations are coming leaps and bounds in technologies and economics. Indonesian GDP is nearly a $trillion mashAllah, saudi has made serious moves in terms of science and engineering, turkey is working on the f-35, the muslim lands are becoming more islamic which means more unity inshAllah as a lot of our disunity came from people like ghaddafi and assad who are currently being removedf inshAllah. I doubt ikhwan al muslimeen et al will want friction with muslim nations

[tattcasetle]

i agree deeni efforts are needed like tabligh but i also think worldly preparations are needed also and a suitable plan for that inshAllah

[attlawqa]

its true but that need not be an obstacle. Arabs can have an arab leader, pakistanis can have a pakistani leader, banglis4bangalis, indonesians4indonesians etc and have a level of cooperation amongst them whilst also having development plans for each individual nation. some muslim nations are coming leaps and bounds in technologies and economics. Indonesian GDP is nearly a $trillion mashAllah, saudi has made serious moves in terms of science and engineering, turkey is working on the f-35, the muslim lands are becoming more islamic which means more unity inshAllah as a lot of our disunity came from people like ghaddafi and assad who are currently being removedf inshAllah. I doubt ikhwan al muslimeen et al will want friction with muslim nations

Brother, you raised some serious and highly important questions. And you made some true observations.

However, what you described above is not a solution, nor is it the Islamic solution.
What you described is like a bank robber robbinonly one bank a month, rather than 10, or a prostitute seeing only two clients a week, rather than 20. that 'gradualism' continues to leave the perpetrator in sin, and the 'gradual' transition of Muslim countries continues to keep our Ummah in sin, in defiance of Allah, and those performing the gradualization are empowered beyond what the Prophet was granted. Even with the course which you described, there will still need to be the 'shock' or revolt or coup which springs the people free of their corrupt regime.



1), the Muslim regimes are NOT representative of Islam. They fail to meet the minimal standards set by the Shariah. And because of their constitutions and legal bodies, they are kufr regimes even if their leaders and many officials in the regimes are Muslim. The phenomenon of constitutions and political systems which exist and persist outside of the ruler was addressed by shaykh Ibn Taymiyah (rh) who recognized the Mongol ruler may be a Muslim, as was the case at one particular time, but the regime which he implemented and enforced consisted of kufr- Mongol kufr laws mixed with various other laws along with a few laws from Shariah- and therefore should be removed.

2), the Muslim Ummah is too backwards to simply implement an Islamic state. Rather, it is in need of a spiritual, political, ideological movement or movements which uplift it's "iman" and awareness. So a mere military coup would not suffice.

3), the model of the Prophet applies here as the solution: he demonstrated how a spiritual, political, ideological movement should emerge from the people, how it should reject capitulation to kufr and shirk, how it should reject partial and gradual rule, and how it should confront the wrong ideas of the public until nusra- structural support emerges for the foundation of a truly liberated, independent Islamic state.


4) the Sunnat of all the prophets of Allah (as) was NEVER to compromise with Taghut and kufr just for earthly gain. they were always idealistic and ideological- meaning that they held a definitive doctrine and adhered to it and struggled to implement it regardless of the earthly and physicial obsticals and temptations.


One can look at the Turkish military. Yes, it may have advanced weaponry, but it is utterly impotent when it comes to Syria just as it was useless and lifeless when it came to Bosnia. The Bosnian crisis lasted for nearly 4 years and Turkey did nothing except obeyed the West by remaining impotent. I distinctly recall that the Muslims inside Turkey deeply resented that the military and its secular govt did nothing such that they elected Erbakan.

Turkey can't even end its PKK threat. The Turkish military is a piece of worthless high crafted metal when it comes to Islam. Being a Nato member positions the Turkish military to be infiltrated by Western operatives who have supported and will continue to support generals who will do their bidding. It's like having the opposing team's coaches coaching and advising your players- its utterly unconscionable for a Muslim people.




And the 'gradualism' approach to Islam will prolong this lifelessness as well as set up gradualists as accountable to Allah, just as Ghanoushi will be accountable for publicly opposing Islam in society and NOT advocating Islam in Tunisia.

[attlawqa]

Indonesia, Turkey, Egypt, Pakistan- they all have in common that their source of power and authority is their miltaries. And the militaries of all of these Muslim countries are dominated by a generals corps. And the generals corps of all of these militaries have been successfully turned by America to serve American interests.



Now, I argue that Algeria is potentially a MORE important country for ISLAM than Egypt. Algeria has all the natural resources ( oil, gas, water, arable land, sea access, large desert expanses) , natural defenses ( Atlas mountains) , and a large enough population (diverse multi ethnic Muslim population of 35 million) to be a truly liberated Islamic state. It has engineers, oil, scientists, its population knows Islam and knows arabic for the most part.
It is NOT compromised by a lack of natural resources and unfavorable geo-strategic factors as Egypt is.


Expecting Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey, Indonesia to gradually become an Islamic state ignores the reality that DEMOCRACY does NOT lead to Islam. Algeria had elections in 1992 which were supposed to turn the government over to Islamic movement, FIS. America and France rejected, saying that they do NOT want "one man, one vote, one time". Therefore, they activated the Algerian military led by their generals corps to nullify the elections by any means necessary.

Nothing has changed in terms of the West hold over Muslim lands. The WEST continues to hold the power and hold the final veto via DEMOCRACY.

What IS changing is the integrity of Muslims and Islamic groups. They are now more willing to compromise with Taghut.
That is NOT acceptable. It is spiritual corruption of Muslims.

[Beedcardabeme]

What IS changing is the integrity of Muslims and Islamic groups. They are now more willing to compromise with Taghut.

Why do you say that?

[Nautilus]

What IS changing is the integrity of Muslims and Islamic groups. They are now more willing to compromise with Taghut.
That is NOT acceptable. It is spiritual corruption of Muslims.

Why do you say that?

Nationalisms devoid us from moving towards full Islamic implementation as a whole. When everything is based on nationalistic interests, it seems natural to have some cooperation solely based on profits, even among Muslim nations. And the US, knowing that almost every country in the world would want to have access to their buying power and market volume, would easily dictate the nationalistic Muslim nation according to their terms.

I think it's about time that we start a grassroot movement towards full Islamic cooperation based solely on Islamic principles.

Allahu'alam.

[Depolit]

i know imaan is important, but what practical steps are needed?

Alhumdolillah, we are Muslims and not Catholics so the solution needs to take an individual as well as collective into account.

Efforts for individual reformation (such as Tableeghi Jamaat, Tassawuff/Tazkiyah (whatever you want to label them)) are praiseworthy but won’t make a massive dent in the condition of the Ummah because solutions needs to be discussed globally and framework designed for global application.

We are a collective and Islam pays a great deal of emphasis on Jam’aah.

Considering our current predicament the Ummah (due to practicality) can be split into two groups:

1. Muslims resident in Muslim lands
2. us (Muslims resident in Non-Muslims lands, predominantly in the West).

Due to practical reasons we are unable to fully unite on either level but there is a lot which can be done on a micro-level considering the verse of the Qur’aan.

[5:2]...Help each other in righteousness and piety, and do not help each other in sin and aggression. Fear Allah. Surely, Allah is severe at punishment.


On a micro-level Ulamah and community leaders need to take a lead and start cooperating on matters which are mutually agreed upon and deemed important for Muslim Ummah and the polemical nonsense has to stop.

What is preventing this from happening is the exact same thing which prevented the Mushrikeen of Makkah and Jews of Madina from accepting Islam i.e. pride and fear of losing power and control. In Pakistan there are religious groups and parties who take advantage of innocent laymen and pit them against each other. In Saudia, the regime uses “Islam” as a tool to strengthen their grip on power.

In the west, our community leaders and unfortunately Ulamah also have vested interests (and some power and control) which they will lose should the Ummah come a little closer. Even with sincerity, they often follow the Fatawa and dictates from the East (Muslim lands) and refuse to join in and cooperate with other groups on polemic grounds.

I exclude Qadiyanees and other such groups from this discussion.

If this thinking of “refusing to cooperate even in permissible matters” is not quashed we will all be doomed. This is great Hikmah of Allah (SWT) in this strategy because when you come together for mutually beneficial and permissible matters you get to observe “other Muslims” up-close and personally and actually learn their position and perspective first-hand which helps in narrowing the gap between us.

[WumibBesowe]

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

We cant just say we need imaan and neglect any worldly plans, they need to be developed in tandom inshAllah. Did the prophet SAW sit back and say lets just pray 5 times a day and Allah will grant victory and protect madinah? he dug trenches, built armies, prepared his troops, he said archery is stregnth, he would deceive his enemies by giving our false info, he made a peace treaty with quraish and the jews, he made practical plans aswell as reliance on Allah and we should do the same inshAllah, its just a question of what are the most realistic short term steps we can take

True, but for 13 years before migration what did he do? He developed the Eemaan of the Muslims, and when this had reached such a level whereby they were ready to move on, then did the rest follow.

[Beedcardabeme]

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته



True, but for 13 years before migration what did he do? He developed the Eemaan of the Muslims, and when this had reached such a level whereby they were ready to move on, then did the rest follow.

On the target akhi. It is so surprising that so many of us are struck with the first thirteen years and refuse to tame the next step.

[Depolit]

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته



True, but for 13 years before migration what did he do? He developed the Eemaan of the Muslims, and when this had reached such a level whereby they were ready to move on, then did the rest follow.

Allah (SWT) perfected his Deen in stages and the Shariah now stands completed and perfected as declared by Allah (SWT). The Ahkaam of Shariah which are final in chronology need to be applied and we can’t pick and choose from earlier times i.e. if you say that strategy in Makkah was of a certain nature then also understand that it has been superseded by life in Madina.

Following are examples from earlier periods which are now nnull and void:

1. We no longer speak during Salah.
2. We no longer drink Alcohol.
3. Women are obligated to wear Hijab.
4. We are no longer required not to resists.

There is no such thing in Islam as emphasis on individual reformation and no collective effort to establish the Deen of Allah (SWT). The individual reformation MUST go on (off course) but alongside collective effort.

alon